2nd Amendment - what's the point?

the said:
Yes that's true. But that's the point. And it being rare is irrelevant.
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What point? That a law which says you can go against the establishment is contradictory?

So are laws which go against the good of the people. Why should you trust a government that does not trust its people?

Do you do everything you're told no matter what? Especially with the clowns that are trying to run things lately?
 
sprinkles said:
Why should we view them as anything? It's their business. However if you really want to look, I see a lot of things happen there that would have a hard time happening here, such as various kinds of censorship. For example in the UK the government can apparently just block websites when it feels like it. Here such a thing is laughable. It's little things like that which actually make a big difference.

In other countries the government is sovereign. In the US the people are sovereign.
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Wow, so apparently anything outside the US is irrelevant?

Americentrism is the idea or perceived bias to judge other cultures and nations by American standards or to center around the United States in news. It refers to the ethnocentric practice of viewing the world from an explicitly U.S. perspective, with an implied belief, either consciously or subconsciously, in the preeminence of U.S. culture.
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I'm not sure what the UK government blocking websites has to do with the 2nd amendment but I'm not claiming that there are no issues in other countries. I am genuinely curious about how proponents of the 2nd amendment can explain how other countries like Canada, Australia, the UK...most industrialized countries have functioning democracies with relatively low crime rates and individual rights and freedoms without a similar 'right to bear arms'. It certainly makes it seem like Americans are less civilized than citizens of other countries. That's the only rational explanation I can come up with, but if you have a different one please share.

If nobody is willing to answer or only answers with saying that the examples of other countries are irrelevant then that will speak louder than any debates on the subject and indicate exactly what the problem is.

By the way, you don't even all have to be 'up in arms' about the fear of your guns being taken away. The gun culture is so entrenched and there are so many guns in the US that there is no way to 'fix' the problem in a civilized and reasonable way, so your gun rights are not likely to be taken away any time soon or ever (I know many of you don't think it's a problem but many do think it is and that is a valid point of view).
 
My gosh this is worse than office gossip.

[MENTION=9809]La Sagna[/MENTION]
Well you did have to ask. People don't talk about this because of responses like yours. Why do you care so much about things that don't concern you?

This is exactly why I said what I said. What other countries do is none of my affair and even when we DO say an opinion when ASKED for one, people take an attitude about it.

I don't know why you people always have to TALK about shit that doesn't concern you. You don't seem to like it when people scrutinize your internal affairs so maybe you should return the same courtesy for a change.
 
sprinkles said:
My gosh this is worse than office gossip.

[MENTION=9809]La Sagna[/MENTION]
Well you did have to ask. People don't talk about this because of responses like yours. Why do you care so much about things that don't concern you?

This is exactly why I said what I said. What other countries do is none of my affair and even when we DO say an opinion when ASKED for one, people take an attitude about it.

I don't know why you people always have to TALK about shit that doesn't concern you. You don't seem to like it when people scrutinize your internal affairs so maybe you should return the same courtesy for a change.
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Well, I consider myself a citizen of the world and I like to be informed on many topics and I like to hear even the side of people who have opposing views to mine as long as they can do so in a civilized and rational manner. I have absolutely no problem with others discussing our internal affairs and actually appreciate hearing different viewpoints from outside. It helps me get a better perspective. If you don't like to do that then by all means bury your head in the sand and pretend that you actually have some insight into something when you can't possibly have much insight while your head is buried and you're not willing to look outside.

I will tell you what the problem is, there are too many people like you who don't want to actually discuss the issues and who try to intimidate people who do, and there aren't enough people like me who genuinely like to debate ideas respectfully, openly and without bias. I have a genuine curiosity about the other viewpoints and will listen respectfully even if I disagree.
 
[MENTION=9809]La Sagna[/MENTION]
I didn't find you to be very respectful in your initial response to me. I found you to be reactionary for no good reason.
 
Let's keep this focused on the topic at hand, and not on pointing fingers at each other.
 
sprinkles said:
My gosh this is worse than office gossip.

@La Sagna
Well you did have to ask. People don't talk about this because of responses like yours. Why do you care so much about things that don't concern you?

This is exactly why I said what I said. What other countries do is none of my affair and even when we DO say an opinion when ASKED for one, people take an attitude about it.

I don't know why you people always have to TALK about shit that doesn't concern you. You don't seem to like it when people scrutinize your internal affairs so maybe you should return the same courtesy for a change.
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@sprinkles , give @La Sagna a go.

This is an international forum after all - so while she (presumably lives outside the US) will never vote/lobby on the subject. Surely an internet forum is a valid place to discuss any topic.


I have lived and worked in the US for years (not at present) and in many other countries. The particular gun-culture in the US is certainly very strange - comparing it to other countries. In most areas the US is like any other Western country, but when it comes to the topic of guns, the kind of reasoning seems very disjointed, almost Middle-Eastern.

As a non US forum member, I also have an interest in the particular American psychology of gun ownership - because it is so disjointed with the rest of Western culture. In England and Germany people have guns, but they are basically only regarded as a type of sporting equipment and nothing else. Americans uniquely are very passionate, defensive, and regard guns as an important option for day to day personal security.

In no other Western country I have worked in, would I every wonder about having a gun pulled on me on the street, except the US.

Perhaps the culture is to saturated with gun-mistrust-of-other-gun-owners for people ever to feel confident without the option of carrying/owning one. Perhaps it isn't. In either case (or case by case) the response of people to the possibility of gun restrictions helps understand this very foreign culture. And the understanding of foreign cultures is broadening.
 
I found a holstered pistol a few weeks ago in the middle of a dirt road just outside a small mountain town.

Can someone explain to me how it is that a lethal semi automatic weapon can just drop out of some persons possession and lay where another person could pick it up and possible go all lethal?

Seems to me that any right also has a responsibility.

I don't want to ban guns, but what goes on in the US (or at least parts of it) is whacky.
 
[MENTION=862]Flavus Aquila[/MENTION]
I can't because I find it rude. It goes against my principles to speak about others like that. That's just how I am and people will have to deal with it.
 
sprinkles said:
[MENTION=9809]La Sagna[/MENTION]
I didn't find you to be very respectful in your initial response to me. I found you to be reactionary for no good reason.
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The only answer I received to my genuine question about how proponents of the 2nd amendment view or explain the other countries who don't have a similar right to bear arms was that the other countries are irrelevant. This was obviously a disappointing answer. I am absolutely open to hearing other explanations or viewpoints and was just pointing out what a refusal to answer or a dismissal of a genuine question appears like, and leaving the door open for people to share different viewpoints and explanations. I don't view that as disrespectful.
 
La Sagna said:
The only answer I received to my genuine question about how proponents of the 2nd amendment view or explain the other countries who don't have a similar right to bear arms was that the other countries are irrelevant. This was obviously a disappointing answer. I am absolutely open to hearing other explanations or viewpoints and was just pointing out what a refusal to answer or a dismissal of a genuine question appears like, and leaving the door open for people to share different viewpoints and explanations. I don't view that as disrespectful.
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I didn't say that other countries are irrelevant. I said that what they do is none of my business. Big difference.
 
sprinkles said:
[MENTION=862]Flavus Aquila[/MENTION]
I can't because I find it rude. It goes against my principles to speak about others like that. That's just how I am and people will have to deal with it.
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I thought that free speech was an important American principle, or is just for Americans and the rest of the world needs to be muzzled?
 
sprinkles said:
Why are you pushing me?
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You are obviously easily pushed. I don't get the oversensitivity. I have a right to express opinions and ask questions on here. I mean no disrespect, actually it's the opposite, as I like to find out how people think. My original question wasn't directed at you in particular so hopefully there are others who are more open to answering it without taking offence.
 
La Sagna said:
You are obviously easily pushed. I don't get the oversensitivity. I have a right to express opinions and ask questions on here. I mean no disrespect, actually it's the opposite, as I like to find out how people think. My original question wasn't directed at you in particular so hopefully there are others who are more open to answering it without taking offence.
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You've been directly judgmental of me at least twice in the past few posts. Not to mention putting words in my mouth and taking what I said way out of context.
 
2nd Amendment rights have nothing to do with other countries. That may go as far as with people from other countries. It is for American citizens. If you don't like guns, stay away from them and leave us be.
 
I get that our interpretation of the second amendment has changed over time, but where does it say any fucking nutjob can by as many semi automatic weapons and as much ammunition as they want?
 
Stu said:
I get that our interpretation of the second amendment has changed over time, but where does it say any fucking nutjob can by as many semi automatic weapons and as much ammunition as they want?
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It doesn't so I don't know why everyone is talking about it like it does.
 
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