Bill Cosby

image.webp
 
[MENTION=11771]Dave Fallon[/MENTION]

There's a big difference between "I need some proof because you could be lying" and "I think you are lying".

I mean why do you have to present identification at the bank or something? Is it because they're accusing you of lying about your identity? No, it's because people CAN lie about their identity and they need assurance. If you don't have your ID, they don't serve you, and they shouldn't. If you go in and try to get money without identifying yourself - without proof - they're going to say we can't just trust you because you could be anyone. That is NOT an accusation, that's the reason why things work the way they do.
 
pics said:
I think my main point was, whether or not Cosby files a complaint, there is a problem with blind acceptance of all accusers statements as true. Since we only have the stories or words of the accusers to deal with, of course more attention will be given to their testimony. Since Cosby hasn't spoken, we can't analyze what he feels, thinks, or has said. So, naturally, since the ratio of accusers to Cosby at least 20:1, it would be likely that we would spend more time on them since their accusations and past stories are the only thing we have to discuss.
Click to expand...

Oh, OK. I hadn't looked at it that way. True, there's a lot we don't know because he's being quiet about this. And another thing I hadn't considered is that he may not have committed crimes but the truth is still embarrassing for him to reveal... Sort of the Bill Clinton effect: no matter what he says, he loses.

I get that point. If he hasn't spoken in his defense, he does not need to. But if the accusers have a good case, he does more harm by holding, just as in the Clinton case.

pics said:
You can't really give equal weight to anything when both sides are not equally presented. Clearly, the media favors those the accuser's stories over those who say they've known Cosby and never experienced what others have. So, we are simply buying into the media's need to create a huge story without no verified facts. Until charges are filed, all we have is hearsay. And it seems everyone who does not agree with the testimony of all the facts is seen as some kind of Cosby supporter, which is nonsensical. In a court of law, you can't convict someone based on feeling or opinion, whether or not you believe they committed the crime. Again, the word victim blaming is being overused. It should only be used when the victim is actually being blamed for a crime committed against them. As I mentioned earlier, every accuser is not a victim so criticisms of accusers is not victim blaming. Questioning whether someone who is making a serious accusation about sexual abuse is being truthful is fair. If not, anyone can use any situation and claim to be a victim, gain support and belief, and use that to manipulate the public for some other benefit. The point is, there should be fair criticism on both sides. When Cosby finally makes a statement and/or is charged, then we can judge his words and actions. You don't have to be pro or anti Cosby to be for the truth.
Click to expand...

OK, fair enough. I concede: we only have the accusers accounts so far, so maybe this thread all along was about them.
 
sprinkles said:
[MENTION=11771]Dave Fallon[/MENTION]

There's a big difference between "I need some proof because you could be lying" and "I think you are lying".

I mean why do you have to present identification at the bank or something? Is it because they're accusing you of lying about your identity? No, it's because people CAN lie about their identity and they need assurance. If you don't have your ID, they don't serve you, and they shouldn't. If you go in and try to get money without identifying yourself - without proof - they're going to say we can't just trust you because you could be anyone. That is NOT an accusation, that's the reason why things work the way they do.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree. Though you have to admit there is a thin line between due process and prejudice. To take the bank analogy, you may not mind showing your ID, but what if they then said you need your birth certificate, Social Security card, two friends to vouch for your identity, and blood and urine samples, then wait two weeks for them to verify that. You have to agree that a driver's license can be forged, just as someone can lie.

But then, I may be biased in the other direction. I don't think everyone here has gone to the "blood and urine" extreme, so maybe I should be a little less concerned about the scrutiny. I just think it is bad that a legitimate victim has to face this scrutiny, but when the punishment is significant, then so to should be the certainty that punishment is deserved.
 
Dave Fallon said:
I just think it is bad that a legitimate victim has to face this scrutiny, but when the punishment is significant, then so to should be the certainty that punishment is deserved.
Click to expand...

I think everyone would agree @Dave Fallon that a legitimate victim should not have to go through that public criticism or interrogation or have to answer to everyone, for something someone did to them. I think the real problem is that the media does a poor job of making sure that when stories are reported, they are checked out or else every story reported is seen as a fact. There's a principle in news reporting which says we're likely to believe the first thing we hear, even if it isn't the truth. So, in a world where media reports everything immediately with fact checking coming later without any real investigation or analysis, it's hard to know what's the truth.
 
Last edited:
Dave Fallon said:
Yes, I agree. Though you have to admit there is a thin line between due process and prejudice. To take the bank analogy, you may not mind showing your ID, but what if they then said you need your birth certificate, Social Security card, two friends to vouch for your identity, and blood and urine samples, then wait two weeks for them to verify that. You have to agree that a driver's license can be forged, just as someone can lie.

But then, I may be biased in the other direction. I don't think everyone here has gone to the "blood and urine" extreme, so maybe I should be a little less concerned about the scrutiny. I just think it is bad that a legitimate victim has to face this scrutiny, but when the punishment is significant, then so to should be the certainty that punishment is deserved.
Click to expand...

Well
1. It's bad to not be believed but worse to be falsely accused. Yes we do bias to one side because if we don't that leaves things up in the air too much to be of any use. Yes, it is arbitrary but it is also pragmatic.

2. If we can't bring evidence and take some kind of legal action, what is the point? If it is to ruin someone's reputation then that is wrong and makes a mockery of justice. Why bother with justice at all? Why have courts when we could just go straight to slander anyway? Doing this kind of thing should actually be wrong, and in some cases even skirts very close to breaking the law.
 
sprinkles said:
Well
1. It's bad to not be believed but worse to be falsely accused. Yes we do bias to one side because if we don't that leaves things up in the air too much to be of any use. Yes, it is arbitrary but it is also pragmatic.

2. If we can't bring evidence and take some kind of legal action, what is the point? If it is to ruin someone's reputation then that is wrong and makes a mockery of justice. Why bother with justice at all? Why have courts when we could just go straight to slander anyway? Doing this kind of thing should actually be wrong, and in some cases even skirts very close to breaking the law.
Click to expand...

Thats kind of the point though. If there isnt enough or any evidence for legal action and yet it still ruins someones life because all you have to do is make accusations that make it into the media so that people can judge you there...wtf? Its all bs.
For those of you who somehow have made the decision that Cosby is now a bad person how exactly did you come to that conclusion? Just because 17 women say he is?

I just dont get this whole thing.

There is a group of high ranking military and government officials that say we are being visited by alien beings. They have vastly more proof of it than any of these women do concerning their claim of Cosby. So given that people so easily believe what they are told I guess that means they are telling the truth.
 
I like how nobody remembers when someone did this exact same thing to Michael Jackson lmao
 
Eventhorizon said:
There is a group of high ranking military and government officials that say we are being visited by alien beings. They have vastly more proof of it than any of these women do concerning their claim of Cosby. So given that people so easily believe what they are told I guess that means they are telling the truth.
Click to expand...

I love this guy on ancient aliens (:

image.webp

Those officials have everything to lose when they come forward with those accounts, so yes, I believe they are telling the truth. Plus, the thought of there being life somewhere other than our planet isn't that far-fetched. If they say they had an encounter, then they did. Why lie?

These women also have a lot to lose by coming forward. You can't build a career on false rape allegations. This is fact.

If he ends up being innocent, I will be the first to say I was wrong. But I don't feel that this will happen. We will wait and see.
 
Anywhere But Here said:
I love this guy on ancient aliens (:

View attachment 22675

Those officials have everything to lose when they come forward with those accounts, so yes, I believe they are telling the truth. Plus, the thought of there being life somewhere other than our planet isn't that far-fetched. If they say they had an encounter, then they did. Why lie?

These women also have a lot to lose by coming forward. You can't build a career on false rape allegations. This is fact.

If he ends up being innocent, I will be the first to say I was wrong. But I don't feel that this will happen. We will wait and see.
Click to expand...

Doesn't look like they're losing much. Looks like they are gaining a lot of sympathy to me.
 
sprinkles said:
Doesn't look like they're losing much. Looks like they are gaining a lot of sympathy to me.
Click to expand...

They're also receiving a lot of criticism. And if the allegations turn out to be false, they will be ruined. Nothing positive will come their way if they are lying.
 
Anywhere But Here said:
They're also receiving a lot of criticism. And if the allegations turn out to be false, they will be ruined. Nothing positive will come their way if they are lying.
Click to expand...

Yes but if you go so far as to believe them because they're taking this risk then it becomes circular. If we believe them now it isn't so simple as taking it back later because the damage will already be done.
 
sprinkles said:
Yes but if you go so far as to believe them because they're taking this risk then it becomes circular. If we believe them now it isn't so simple as taking it back later because the damage will already be done.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying it's impossible that they are lying, I'm just saying that it is highly unlikely. As I said, I will be the first to say I was wrong if the allegations turn out to be false. But I can't imagine that all of these women are out to ruin Cosby. What would be the reasoning behind it?
 
Anywhere But Here said:
I'm not saying it's impossible that they are lying, I'm just saying that it is highly unlikely. As I said, I will be the first to say I was wrong if the allegations turn out to be false. But I can't imagine that all of these women are out to ruin Cosby. What would be the reasoning behind it?
Click to expand...

Notoriety, money, book deals, maybe even plain revenge. Not to mention that some times people are just plain crazy and illogical.
 
Anywhere But Here said:
I'm not saying it's impossible that they are lying, I'm just saying that it is highly unlikely. As I said, I will be the first to say I was wrong if the allegations turn out to be false. But I can't imagine that all of these women are out to ruin Cosby. What would be the reasoning behind it?
Click to expand...

Don't look for reason in the minds of crazy people.
 
SealHammer said:
Don't look for reason in the minds of crazy people.
Click to expand...

So all 20 plus women are crazy and coming up with the same story of being drugged and raped? Maybe, but I doubt it. We'll see. I can't wait to see him be interviewed (if that ever happens).
 
Anywhere But Here said:
So all 20 plus women are crazy and coming up with the same story of being drugged and raped? Maybe, but I doubt it. We'll see. I can't wait to see him be interviewed (if that ever happens).
Click to expand...

Not necessarily but I don't see a reason to form an opinion either way.

If I were somehow connected with any of these people it might become important but I have the luxury of detachment. I don't have to decide anything, and even if I do it accomplishes nothing. Believing it or not believing it doesn't do anything for them, for me, or for anybody.
 
sprinkles said:
Notoriety, money, book deals, maybe even plain revenge. Not to mention that some times people are just plain crazy and illogical.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
Its not proof one way or another of lying or not but the idea theres nothing to gain as being the sole basis why not to do it is not a good foundation.
In this instance I want to believe they are telling the truth but I am certainly still holding off judgement because with the information I have, theres still simply no way to tell for sure.
 
Ugly sweaters explained.

image.webp
 
Kathy Lee Gifford says that Cosby tried to kiss her. If true we now know that Cosby does appear to have some unknown mental health issues.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top