Bill Cosby

[SealHammer]

So all 20 plus women are crazy and coming up with the same story of being drugged and raped? Maybe, but I doubt it. We'll see. I can't wait to see him be interviewed (if that ever happens).

I believe that it's plausible to bring 20 crazy women together to all claim that the same plausible scenario happened to them. It doesn't matter how many alleged victims they bring forth, though, if they can't produce any evidence to support their claims.

e: I do like, however, seeing Cosby's reputation fall into the shitter even before there's been a criminal hearing or even a fucking court date set. It's MJ all over again.

 

[Dave Fallon]

I just want to say that I do still stand behind [MENTION=12327]Anywhere But Here[/MENTION] and agree with her on this issue.

Thats kind of the point though. If there isnt enough or any evidence for legal action and yet it still ruins someones life because all you have to do is make accusations that make it into the media so that people can judge you there...wtf? Its all bs.
For those of you who somehow have made the decision that Cosby is now a bad person how exactly did you come to that conclusion? Just because 17 women say he is?

Yes, that is my answer. Just because 17 women say he is. Like [MENTION=12327]Anywhere But Here[/MENTION], I will eat crow if I am wrong.

But we're not in a court. Consider what our decision is: to continue to support Cosby (watch his shows, buy his DVDs, etc) or not. I choose not. But like I said wayyyy down there, I don't regret that my wife did spend money on him, I just won't do it again unless he is fully exonerated. I'm not sending him to jail or causing his immediate bankruptcy. But when all things are considered equal, and I believe they are, I err on the side of not supporting someone so accused.

I just dont get this whole thing.

There is a group of high ranking military and government officials that say we are being visited by alien beings. They have vastly more proof of it than any of these women do concerning their claim of Cosby. So given that people so easily believe what they are told I guess that means they are telling the truth.

Yeah, I don't get that argument at all. Specious or false dichotomy. How exactly is a comedian being accused of rape like claims that aliens visited Earth in a way that makes this make sense? :/

Yes but if you go so far as to believe them because they're taking this risk then it becomes circular. If we believe them now it isn't so simple as taking it back later because the damage will already be done.

Actually, yes it is. If you make a personal decision, as is all anyone here is being asked to do, then you can make a personal decision to take it back. How do you mean "circular"? I don't think anyone is saying we believe them just because they are taking a risk, any more than (I hope) anyone is saying they don't believe them just because it is plausible they get something out of it. All I'm asking is if you make an argument one way, you accept the argument the other way as well. If that's what you mean by "circular", then there it is: if you choose not to believe them partly because they may intend to personally gain from this, then you must respect those who choose to believe them partly because they are also taking a risk with this.

Not necessarily but I don't see a reason to form an opinion either way.

If I were somehow connected with any of these people it might become important but I have the luxury of detachment.

But it seems you have formed an opinion, and that's what this discussion is about. And that same luxury applies to those who do decide, like me.

I don't have to decide anything, and even if I do it accomplishes nothing. Believing it or not believing it doesn't do anything for them, for me, or for anybody.

Many other people have argued on this thread that believing them or not believing them does matter for a variety of reasons:

• Cosby's career and legacy are at stake
• Future individuals who might have been raped will think twice about reporting it due to the very public scrutiny here
• Some of us (and I understand not you) have spent money and have supported Cosby in the past and now need to make a personal decision based on sensationalist media

But if you truly do not believe your opinion matters, what is your point, exactly?

Exactly.
Its not proof one way or another of lying or not but the idea theres nothing to gain as being the sole basis why not to do it is not a good foundation.
In this instance I want to believe they are telling the truth but I am certainly still holding off judgement because with the information I have, theres still simply no way to tell for sure.

Ok, I agree with this. That's more the concession I made to [MENTION=1669]pics[/MENTION] argument: there really is no way to be sure. If you don't historically or currently have an interest in Cosby's work, then beyond the objection to trusting sensationalist media and the concept of blaming victims vs. challenging them to prove themselves, there's little else to actually discuss. If you wouldn't have ever been remotely likely to support Cosby in any measurable way, then believing him or not is meaningless.

I have a problem, though, in that I have supported him historically and I do currently feel I am a fan of his, as I could see myself spending more money and more time with Cosby's work in the future if I hadn't heard of all these allegations (as I didn't hear about them in 2005 or subsequently until now). I have to make a decision one way or the other, and I have, and I guess this thread was about how to explain that decision. I hope I've clarified that...

 

[cvp12gh5]

I believe that it's plausible to bring 20 crazy women together to all claim that the same plausible scenario happened to them. It doesn't matter how many alleged victims they bring forth, though, if they can't produce any evidence to support their claims.

e: I do like, however, seeing Cosby's reputation fall into the shitter even before there's been a criminal hearing or even a fucking court date set. It's MJ all over again.

If someone falsely accused me of rape, I wouldn't jump to paying them off. I would say 'fuck you. I'll see you in court'.

But if it wasn't a false accusation and I did rape this person...$$$.

People that are innocent want it taken to trial. People that are guilty make it go away with money.

 

[Dave Fallon]

If someone falsely accused me of rape, I wouldn't jump to paying them off. I would say 'fuck you. I'll see you in court'.

But if it wasn't a false accusation and I did rape this person...$$$.

People that are innocent want it taken to trial. People that are guilty make it go away with money.

Well, I have to say that there is a possibility like I said of the "Clinton Effect", where nothing "illegal" happened, but it is so embarrassing that it is damaging in other ways. In the end, Bill Clinton wasn't accused of having an affair, he was accused of lying. It may be the same with Cosby. Like Clinton, there may be an embarrassing aspect to this whole thing that makes Cosby reluctant to go to trial... An aspect that isn't illegal (like having an affair, or multiple affairs, or something else) but damaging in other ways. If that is the case, he has a hard decision to make: face the accusations knowing the truth will reveal his secret, or keep quiet knowing that, with the statute of limitations and with evidence so degraded by time, that he doesn't have to prove anything and doesn't really face criminal punishment.

I guess, if we don't know either way, we really don't know either way. As much as I hate to decide to ignore the alleged victims because there is the possibility they may gain, I also hate to decide to convict Cosby out-and-out because he refuses to go to trial...

 

[sprinkles]

But it seems you have formed an opinion, and that's what this discussion is about. And that same luxury applies to those who do decide, like me.

If that opinion is that I don't have an opinion then I guess I'm screwed.

Many other people have argued on this thread that believing them or not believing them does matter for a variety of reasons:

Cosby's career and legacy are at stake

Not from our doing

Future individuals who might have been raped will think twice about reporting it due to the very public scrutiny here

Spreading it all over the media is not 'reporting'. We're not the police. Our 'scrutiny' on this forum is irrelevant.

Some of us (and I understand not you) have spent money and have supported Cosby in the past and now need to make a personal decision based on sensationalist media

What's done is done and you can't unspend that money or take back support you already gave. I could see maybe not spending further money or avoiding support by avoiding new material but Cosby is nearly a has been so I don't think there's any danger of your past support enabling him at all.

But if you truly do not believe your opinion matters, what is your point, exactly?

I should be using my brain power on better things.

 

[sprinkles]

Also what would you guys do if you had to suffer a fate for choosing the wrong side?

It's so easy to pick sides when you have no stake. What if you had to go to jail if you were wrong? Would you be so quick to decide then?

Edit:
See, I think accusers should suffer what would have been the fate of the accused if they turn out wrong. And I think people who judge should also suffer a fate if they're wrong. What would be your opinion if you had to back it up with your life? Other people's lives are at stake, why not yours?

 

[SpecialEdition]

If you've been paying attention to the news, you know he's accused of drugging and raping a couple dozen women (and counting).

Do you think he is guilty? If yes, then do you think he should go to jail? If no, then explain why you think the allegations are false.

Were you a fan of his comedy? If so, do these allegations change anything for you?

I don't care much for Bill Cosby so don't feel personally invested in whether or not he's guilty. I find it strange that so many people stayed silent for so long if he was guilty. Maybe now that he is more of a nobody and isn't a celebrity powerhouse people felt more safe coming forward. I don't know.

I always question when things go so crazy public with cases like this and blow up. I would rather leave that up to the courts than formulate my own verdict.

 

[SealHammer]

If someone falsely accused me of rape, I wouldn't jump to paying them off. I would say 'fuck you. I'll see you in court'.

But if it wasn't a false accusation and I did rape this person...$$$.

People that are innocent want it taken to trial. People that are guilty make it go away with money.

You're not a celebrity, you don't have the luxury of worrying about your name being dragged through the mud and therefore your entire livelihood ruined.

Celebrities rise and fall on their publicity. Seven straight months of headlines reading "Rape victim of X speaks out!" will irreparably damage their reputation no matter who they are and no matter the veracity of the claims. That's why they give people money under the condition they don't sell a story to the press.

e: Actually, I take back what I said about entire livelihood being ruined. Normal peoples' lives have been ruined pretty thoroughly by rape accusations even after they've been totally acquitted of the charges. So, be thankful you're a woman and have statistics on your side in that regard.

 

[the]

I just want to say that I do still stand behind @Anywhere But Here and agree with her on this issue.



Yes, that is my answer. Just because 17 women say he is. Like @Anywhere But Here, I will eat crow if I am wrong.

But we're not in a court. ...

why does being in court matter? That's kind of like saying : well we aren't in a science class so I believe the world is flat because 17 people told me so.

who reported this story anyways, tmz?

 

[cvp12gh5]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/06/us/bill-cosby-allegations-sedative/

Being right never gets old.

 

[sprinkles]

Sure did take long enough to get any evidence though.

 

[Gaze]

I am not arguing that he did not commit many of the things he is accused of, but I always wonder how many were willing, consenting adults to these interactions are simply using the attention to gain publicity or money. Sounds like a few of these may have simply had unsatisfying experiences with Cosby, assuming he was going to wow them with his attention, celebrity, and maybe more, and when it didn't turn out how they wanted, then they decided this was a good opportunity to use their story as a victim's story when they, specifically, were not victims in their experiences with him. It's rather convenient. I think this is a disservice to real victims, whose experiences may be too easily discounted because false accusers are trying to get their 15 mins. in.

 

[Eventhorizon]

So here we are. I remember I stood by Lance Armstrong. He was one of the few people I looked up to in this world. Survived cancer and kicked butt afterward. If he said he didn't dope, he didn't. Many many many years he said that. Even called the people who said he was doping liars.
And then came the day he admitted it. And then came the day he said he had no remorse and that he had a right to do it.... what a piece of scum.
Cosby is hardly Lance Armstrong but he is someone who has called others liars to cover his own butt...nit to mention the rape thing. He needs to be in jail. Simple at this point in my mind.

 

[j654dgj7]

Bill Cosby is a prime example of cognitive dissonance:

In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values (wikipedia source )

Just because he's a rapist and an asshole doesn't mean that his material sucks. He has done many great things for many people, and he's raped countless of innocent girls. His stand-up revolutionized the business, and he's an unrelenting asshole.

Look past the man to see what he contributed. If you can't do that, there's literally no artists left for you to enjoy.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Bill Cosby is a prime example of cognitive dissonance:

In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values (wikipedia source )

Just because he's a rapist and an asshole doesn't mean that his material sucks. He has done many great things for many people, and he's raped countless of innocent girls. His stand-up revolutionized the business, and he's an unrelenting asshole.

Look past the man to see what he contributed. If you can't do that, there's literally no artists left for you to enjoy.

I dont think I can make that jump.
If it were a mental disorder maybe I could look past it.
Im never going to look a pudding pops the same now.

 

[j654dgj7]

I dont think I can make that jump.
If it were a mental disorder maybe I could look past it.
Im never going to look a pudding pops the same now.

Does that mean that you're boycotting his specials and place in history?
His stand-up is hilarious.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Does that mean that you're boycotting his specials and place in history?
His stand-up is hilarious.

Boycott? No. But I think I would avoid them.

 

[PintoBean]

If you've been paying attention to the news, you know he's accused of drugging and raping a couple dozen women (and counting).

Do you think he is guilty? If yes, then do you think he should go to jail? If no, then explain why you think the allegations are false.

Were you a fan of his comedy? If so, do these allegations change anything for you?

I do happen to think he is guilty, but this is based on iffy information and the ever unreliable gut instinct. Because 37 people say something does not necessarily make it more true than if only 1 said it. But again, my gut instinct is that he is guilty. However, I do not think he should go to prison or suffer other consequences unless he is convicted criminally or gets judgments against him in civil court. I believe there is only one plaintiff for whom the statute of limitations has not run out on. It will be telling what happens in that case. I apologize if I'm being redundant. I haven't read every response in this thread.

 

[Eventhorizon]

I do happen to think he is guilty, but this is based on iffy information and the ever unreliable gut instinct. Because 37 people say something does not necessarily make it more true than if only 1 said it. But again, my gut instinct is that he is guilty. However, I do not think he should go to prison or suffer other consequences unless he is convicted criminally or gets judgments against him in civil court. I believe there is only one plaintiff for whom the statute of limitations has not run out on. It will be telling what happens in that case. I apologize if I'm being redundant. I haven't read every response in this thread.

Hes admitted to it.

 

[PintoBean]

Hes admitted to it.

I haven't been following the story super closely, but I think he has "only" admitted to giving women sedative type drugs as part of a consensual sex act. Repugnant and suspicious yet, but this is not an admission to the outright sex assaults he is accused of. Like I said, I'm not up on this, so maybe you are referring to a different admission that I am not aware of.