[PUG] Bullied to death? How about misguided by the people he counted on. (Jamey Rodemeyer)
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Peppermint
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My suggestion is to eliminate or at least downplay the bully mindset to manageable levels.
The "oh but he's just kidding" or "boys will be boys" and "he's just rowdy an energetic" kinds of excuses need to go away. It's a whole different can of worms when it comes to having other acknowledge female bullies though.
Most of the time parents are at least indirectly at fault for the children being bullies to be honest. They either worship and spoil their children so they cannot adapt to not getting their way, transfer their own values against differences amongst people, or are abusive and violent, teaching the same pattern of behavior to the child. But they do the most harm when they outright refuse to acknowledge their child is a bully and do anything about it.
The "oh but he's just kidding" or "boys will be boys" and "he's just rowdy an energetic" kinds of excuses need to go away. It's a whole different can of worms when it comes to having other acknowledge female bullies though.
Most of the time parents are at least indirectly at fault for the children being bullies to be honest. They either worship and spoil their children so they cannot adapt to not getting their way, transfer their own values against differences amongst people, or are abusive and violent, teaching the same pattern of behavior to the child. But they do the most harm when they outright refuse to acknowledge their child is a bully and do anything about it.
When I was bullied as a kid, I took it to heart that the people bullying me were "just kidding". People that I genuinely considered my friends I allowed them to kick me and steal my money/homework/belongings and call me fat. Even the teacher laughed along with them. Kids can just be assholes, and if these excuses float around then even the people who are bullied will begin to believe them, and not be honest to themselves that these people are being hurtful and they don't deserve to be hurt, and they deserve to have something done about it and not just wait it out.
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Honestly, the whole 'it gets better' bullshit is such a detriment.
Sure, it may give some kids hope. But honestly? Lets define 'IT' What is 'it?' is 'it' the human condition? the environment? the soul? If its human condition, we know that the human condition doesn't change, so it can't be that. Is it the environment? Well sure, locale may change, but the environment overall stays the same.People will always hate gays, just like people still hate blacks, and men still think women should be in the kitchen. The soul? This is the only thing I believe can change for the better. When I was 9, people told me it got better. When I was 13, people told me it would get better. When I was 16, people told me it would get better. When I was 18, people were surpised it didn't get better. Now that I'm 20, I have finally come to grips that the environment is never going to get better. The devil still lurks behind the grassy knolls and shopping malls. As long as there are piles of wood and enough anger in peoples hearts to start a fire, there will always be gays, dykes, blacks, women, asians, hispanics, christians, muslims, atheists, republicans, democrats, eccentrics, and the egocentric to be victims to the blaze. The only way I can make my life better, is not by ignorning the environment, and not by waiting for it to get better. Since the environment will never get better by its own, I need destroy the environment that never changes, and make a new one.
He killed himself for no reason. At least, I believe it was no reason because there was no reason for this to happen.
But then again, there's never any reason for anything to happen in this world.
Sure, it may give some kids hope. But honestly? Lets define 'IT' What is 'it?' is 'it' the human condition? the environment? the soul? If its human condition, we know that the human condition doesn't change, so it can't be that. Is it the environment? Well sure, locale may change, but the environment overall stays the same.People will always hate gays, just like people still hate blacks, and men still think women should be in the kitchen. The soul? This is the only thing I believe can change for the better. When I was 9, people told me it got better. When I was 13, people told me it would get better. When I was 16, people told me it would get better. When I was 18, people were surpised it didn't get better. Now that I'm 20, I have finally come to grips that the environment is never going to get better. The devil still lurks behind the grassy knolls and shopping malls. As long as there are piles of wood and enough anger in peoples hearts to start a fire, there will always be gays, dykes, blacks, women, asians, hispanics, christians, muslims, atheists, republicans, democrats, eccentrics, and the egocentric to be victims to the blaze. The only way I can make my life better, is not by ignorning the environment, and not by waiting for it to get better. Since the environment will never get better by its own, I need destroy the environment that never changes, and make a new one.
He killed himself for no reason. At least, I believe it was no reason because there was no reason for this to happen.
But then again, there's never any reason for anything to happen in this world.
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The problem is that schools insist on a peaceful approach not taking into account the torment of the student. If you fight instantly, you get yourself in trouble as "no one should react with violence". The problem is that violence is what is encouraged in an atmosphere where anything out of the ordinary must be treated as weak. They encourage you to speak out, yet the same works in reverse. If you speak out, the students accuse you of being a "sissy" and running to help. Provoking stigma among the entire school, no longer among a certain group of kids. I know because this has happened to me before, part of the reason why I was such an outcast throughout most of my Middle School years. Schools sadly need to be reformed. If I tell you that I am in danger, take action. Not take it lightly like most do. Offer punishments. If people fight back, schools should consider the SITUATION and analyze why the kid is fighting back. For some reason schools seem to lack knowledge on the concept of "self-defense". I think bullying should be more severely punished, as it has shown to cause so many detrimental effects which can lead to the death of a person whether indirect or direct.
As for this case, I am deeply saddened for what happened to Jamey. Kids should not have to go through this sort of torture. In this century you would think people would be less barbaric and accepting of others. My heart goes out to his family.
As for this case, I am deeply saddened for what happened to Jamey. Kids should not have to go through this sort of torture. In this century you would think people would be less barbaric and accepting of others. My heart goes out to his family.
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the only thing bullies often understand is to be met with equal violence. Nonviolence works politically but seldom works on a 1 and 1 situation. The best way to go is to bite back and make sure they know there will be consequences for their actions. Thats how you stop someone from bullying you.
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Then let me also get this off my chest. I perfectly understand that sexual orientation is not the only reason why people are bullied, but its a huge factor. LGBT are much more likely to report bullying and 4 times more likely to have attempted suicide. This does not count the cases where the kids are not gay, but simply bullied because they are suspected to be gay based on stereotypes. Bullies don't only look at gays, that's true. Bullying, however, must be treated individually and not as a group. Bullies bully others because of certain misconceptions about each specific group. What's on the rise now is gay bullying and suicides, partly due to the fact that many more gay teens are coming out and the oppression from the opposite side is big. If you want to discuss all forms of bullying that's fine, post a thread about it with a study or an article, but there's nothing wrong with addressing this issue in particular.
Now outside from this, I agreed with mostly all your points, however, I still believe that education is also a great contributing factor that can be used to avoid violence. Especially in the long term future. Ignorance is a problem. Once kids realize that homosexuals as just like any one else, then there will be progress. If you want to get into other groups: Once people realize that eating and weight disorders are due to genetic components, then there will be more acceptance. Once people realize that we all have different personalities and that the quiet kid is just as equal as the more outgoing kid, then there will be progress. But as you see each bullied group has its own struggles and reasons for why they are bullied. And of course they are all equally important to fight for.
GracieRuth
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Show me the numbers on a reputable website, meaning in part that it doesn't have an agenda regarding LGBT or an agenda against. If you show me the numbers, I'll change my opinion. But until I see real evidence, my assumption is that claiming bullies target gays is no different from saying they target aspburger syndrome or fat kids. I stick to the idea that bullies target easy victims. There are some groups more inclined to have easy victims: any group that is emotionally sensitive or lacks social skills. If I had to pick one group that is consistantly bullied and ostracized for life, it would be schizophrenics.
In my case, it is not clear whether being bullied was a result of my underlying bipolar disorder, or whether the genes carrying the emotinoal sensitivty were simply activated into bipolar disorder by the bullying.
In my case, it is not clear whether being bullied was a result of my underlying bipolar disorder, or whether the genes carrying the emotinoal sensitivty were simply activated into bipolar disorder by the bullying.
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There's no such thing as a fully reliable website, though I do have some pretty neutral sides. Despite all of this, It also comes from my own personal observations. Just look at the general American public. You hear words like "fag--t" more than any other. People saying "that's so gay" all the time. Being gay is highly stigmatized. And the problem mainly comes from people who claim that there's a gay agenda. Well yes let me tell you there's a gay agenda. The agenda consists of giving gays the EQUAL rights they deserve under the constitution. Gays are not asking for "special privileges" like many people so claim. You see that's the root of the problem. People constantly reference homosexuals in the bible and other scriptures as people destined for hell. This gives kids the idea that's somehow ok to bully gays. I am not saying all Christians are like that, but we have a lot of hypocritical ones. Also stereotypes, people assume that gays are naturally more feminine and "sissies" and therefore are more prone to bullying. One doesn't need to realize that this "feminine" traits are more prone to being picked up, whether the person is actually gay or not. Gay bullying also affects straight people who are seen as gay.
This is a PDF by the SPRC which specifies in suicide prevention. Now I am not going to say to take this without any bias, but keep in mind this are pretty big sources listed there.
http://www.sprc.org/library/SPRC_LGBT_Youth.pdf
GracieRuth
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Thank you for taking the time to find me a website. I appreciate that.
The odds that I, who suffer from bipolar disorder, will commit suicide are significantly greater than for you, who are gay. If we are going to train personnel to recognize the signs of possible suicide, it had better be a lot broader than looking to see who is gay. This is not to say I support bullying gays (I would defend them). But I think you have a puffed of view of your own significance.
I hope neither one of us ends up dead.
And actually I hear "mother f*cker," "sl*t," and "b*tch" 100x more often than "faggot."
The odds that I, who suffer from bipolar disorder, will commit suicide are significantly greater than for you, who are gay. If we are going to train personnel to recognize the signs of possible suicide, it had better be a lot broader than looking to see who is gay. This is not to say I support bullying gays (I would defend them). But I think you have a puffed of view of your own significance.
I hope neither one of us ends up dead.
And actually I hear "mother f*cker," "sl*t," and "b*tch" 100x more often than "faggot."
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Well many LGBT also suffer from this disorders as a result of the bullying. Emotional problems have a genetic component but they are still able to be developed, and the more a group gets bullied the more likely for them to develop that. And I hear "fa--ot" a lot, but then again that's dependent on your location and environment. In the end, none of them are permissible. I do not support bullying of any sort, so I don't want to sound like I only care for gay people. I care for everybody. I just think the issues should be addressed independently. Everyone deserves equal respect =)
Peace
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To a degree I think I have to blame Lady Gaga for this boy's death. She and people like her who have sensationalized these suicides through campaigns like "It gets better" have turned suicide into a political statement. A child who identifies as gay and commits suicide now gets national recognition. For some emotionally confused youths that may seem like an incentive to kill themselves. They may even believe by doing so that it will change the country by forcing people to recognize the need to do something. In an attempt to combat bullying, these celebrities and politicians may actually be glorifying these suicides which leads to copy cat suicides that otherwise would not have occurred.
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You are using a slippery slope argument. The "it gets better" is not a political statement. The purpose of it was to SHOW that they are other LGBT people out there and that they are not alone in this world. As a person who has also suffer from bullying this videos have giving me a sense of hope. LGBT children get national recognition because their suicides happen at a much higher rate. This is by any means not an incentive, and to blame a celebrity for the death of a youth is ridiculous. In that case we should ban all sorts of commercials that promote anybody to achieve any desired perfection, that's impossible. There's nothing wrong with making this a political issue. Many blacks took many risks in the last century for the sake of their own freedom. Many suffered and died, do you think their effort was useless? Same with LGBT activism. This is by no means an agenda. LGBT issues shouldn't even be made political. It's disgusting that it has been made into one. The US constitution demands liberty and justice for all, and even if it was a choice we are ensured personal freedom. You see you need to look at the root of the problem. Centuries of oppression and maltreatment of gays. Now you look at the law system and how it still disfavors them. Gay people get bullied because they are seen as inferior, but isn't that what the US is saying in a sense? By denying the equal protections and rights to gays? If we want this to stop in the long run, we need to CHANGE the system and demonstrate that all those stereotypes and prejudices against gays are untrue. Only then we will see a decline of bullying based on sexual orientation .
Peace
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I'm not really sure how my view qualified as a "slippery slope". Could you be more specific?
I don't disagree that Lady Gaga and the It Gets Better campaign have the best intentions. However I do believe an unintended consequence of their actions is that it has glorified suicide for youths who identify as gay and that it does act as an incentive for some youths to commit suicide in hopes their death will inspire change.
I also never said that this movement was "useless", only that it could have contributed to some of these deaths.
I also think that to a degree, the number of gay youths who commit suicide is exaggerated. The common argument is that gay youths are 4 times mores likely to commit suicide but there simply are no reliable statistics on the issue and it is difficult to know even how many youths are gay, which means every statistic that is provided is based on an estimate. Speaking of racial minorities, they are statistically found to be far more likely than white youths to commit suicide and yet this is not a problem that is spoken about by the media anywhere near as much as it is about gay youths.
I also don't think that changing the system will have much effect. While it might create greater equality in certain laws, it is not going to change the attitudes. Changing the system has not eradicated racism in this country and changing the system certainly won't eradicate negative attitudes towards homosexuality. Furthermore, trying to do so isn't exactly fair to those people whose religious beliefs require them to hold negative views toward homosexuality and it puts their religious freedoms below that of the civil rights of gay people.
It is certainly a complicated topic.
[MENTION=4700]Peace[/MENTION] I don't think a lot of north american youth would believe in a political message enough to kill themselves for it. If anything, that would be seen as giving in. Not a lot of people are that desperate to send a message, and if they are, then they're probably at a very low point in their lives anyway.
AzulSoul
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I agree. I speak from experience when I say; teachers do nothing, peers do nothing and nonviolent method just don't work most of the time. I had trouble with this while in school, until I realized that there was no way around the fact that in my situation I had to use violence. I think that violence is not always needed, but that children shouldn't be told that self defense is morally wrong - that's just a backward and impractical view.
GracieRuth
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My son has always dreamed of being a Marine. 9/11 gave him a lot of focus. He believes very strongly in personal liberty, AND he also knows there are people out there in the world that want to exploit him, hurt his family, steal all our stuff... He is a classic Protector personality -- willing to fight, kill, and die to protect his family keep society orderly and preserve a life of freedom. His greatest disappointment is that he cannot pass the entrance exam into the military (he is autistic). But I am still proud of him. He never fails to step in if he sees someone in need, regardless of the danger to himself. We saw a car hydroplain on the freeway, spin around several times, and fall over the embankment. My son was yelling, "Stop the car!" In a flash he was down the hill, pulling the children out of the back window, knowing the car could burst into flames at any second. That's my son!!!!!
