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[rawr]

You know, I used to feel bad for Christians when people called them crazy and delusional.

I sure as hell don't feel bad about it anymore though.

a few are not indicative of the whole (though, realistically, it only takes a few to pollute the entire image.). That being said, i'm not saying we haven't deserved it.

 

[sprinkles]

a few are not indicative of the whole (though, realistically, it only takes a few to pollute the entire image.). That being said, i'm not saying we haven't deserved it.

It's not even about that. I know not all Christians are bad. I know even MOST of them probably aren't bad actually.

The thing is though, the ones causing problems have the audacity to take refuge in acceptance. I think they need to know what intolerance feels like.

It's like the little snotty kid with a big brother protecting him.

 

[Matt3737]

When one person claims that they believe A and another person claims they believe B and it happens that those statements are mutually exclusive, it's very difficult to claim that one is "attacking" the other without more context.

It seems to me that the biggest problem is that this person came to the forum without any regard to manners or tact. He gave no introduction nor has he shared anything else about himself.

It's improper to do this in any culture in the world. He recognizes bias in others, but doesn't acknowledge it for himself. He thinks he's entitled to be treated with respect, yet hasn't demonstrated any capability or intention to do the same.

For these reasons, and not for his views in particular, I say good riddance.

 

[sprinkles]

When one person claims that they believe A and another person claims they believe B and it happens that those statements are mutually exclusive, it's very difficult to claim that one is "attacking" the other without more context.

It seems to me that the biggest problem is that this person came to the forum without any regard to manners or tact. He gave no introduction nor has he shared anything else about himself.

It's improper to do this in any culture in the world. He recognizes bias in others, but doesn't acknowledge it for himself. He thinks he's entitled to be treated with respect, yet hasn't demonstrated any capability or intention to do the same.

For these reasons, and not for his views in particular, I say good riddance.

Exactly. I would have been happy to respect him if he wasn't the forum equivalent of a rowdy bar patron that just barges in already drunk like they own the place.

 

[54tjsioU]

[MENTION=14048]amad[/MENTION]
Being gay is not a choice

"Years of research suggest that people can't change their sexual orientation because they want to, and that trying can cause mental anguish. What's more, some studies suggest that being gay may have a genetic or biological basis. [5 Myths About Gay People Debunked]

Biological origins

Humans aren't the only species that has same-sex pairings. For instance, female Japanese macaques may sometimes participate in energetic sexual stimulation. Lions, chimpanzees, bison and dolphins have also been spotted in same-sex pairings. And nearly 130 bird species have been observed engaging in sexual activities with same-sex partners.

While the evolutionary purpose of this behavior is not clear, the fact that animals routinely exhibit same-sex behavior belies the notion that gay sex is a modern human innovation."

^That article has many sources. I'd suggest you have a look at it. Along with this one: Being homosexual is only partly due to gay gene research finds

There are a number of articles on the internet proving, scientifically, that being gay is not a choice. The key factor in all the research being distinct genetic differences, along with brain chemistry, hormones and lastly environmental factors. The more scientists look into the biology of homosexual people the more scientists conclude it is not a choice.

The reason why you were met with such angst is because you're new here and the first topic you pick to post about is that being gay is a choice, which it is not, backed up with websites that are one sided you may as well have gotten from FoxNews.

We have another forum member on here who I will say is batshit. He's fine up until he goes off about conspiracy theories and once he does he posts a shit ton of websites and YouTube videos that say such incredibly willfully ignorant, head scratching things and on and on post after post he derails the entire thread in a day and renders it useless. Now why people keep posting in this thread is all together beyond me, you all must love the feeling of being angry with one another. And while I of all people understand that, it's been at least 3 days. All of this should have been dropped a long while ago, in my opinion.
Back to that forum member, the reason why I am bringing him up is because he's been on here forever apparently. Telling people over the internet that they're wrong since 2009. So he has a repertoire. And when he's not going crazy he's ok to talk with. For about those thirty minutes up until he goes crazy again. So him we accept. You were not accepted here because we don't know you, you haven't posted much and when you have posted it's your own personal religious beliefs about gay people. You haven't won anyones trust here enough to be actively discriminatory on a subject matter that hits close to home, in some way shape or form, for the majority of the forum.

The forum member who is batshit that I am talking about is muir. Go ahead and look him up, you'll understand what I'm talking about. In fact I'm sure you two will debate about some such shit and I will absolutely laugh. But I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that muir wasn't always crazy. I'm gonna say that when he joined this forum he didn't go 0-60 on the batshit meter. You on the other hand, did. In the span of a couple of days and less than 10 posts, lets say. Can you see how that would lead people to treat you with such animosity?

Now with all of this that I have just stated, with the web-links that I have posted for your viewing pleasure, I will not be debating you on this topic. You and I see sexuality very differently. I don't like your belief system though I truly don't care enough to attack you for it. My goal in life is not to persuade you, or any other person, that these are the facts of life and this is why. My goal in life is to live my life. Telling people that they are wrong for the way they live theirs is not on my list of things to do.

Though I will absolutely always call muir crazy. Because he is.
Plus it makes me giggle

 

[JJJA]

This thread represents a form of humanity that needs to be drastically rehabilitated.

 

[Matt3737]

Exactly. I would have been happy to respect him if he wasn't the forum equivalent of a rowdy bar patron that just barges in already drunk like they own the place.

We certainly gave much more leeway to Lerxst when he started the thread, so it is important to note that it is not necessarily the argument itself. I think it is also important to note WHY we dislike this person so much more than others in order to justify our biased treatment.

 

[Skarekrow]

It seems WE ALL have certain undeniable traits we could work on.

You flat out told me once…and I’ll go find the post if I can…that you do NOT have an open mind, you admit this, and refuse to change it or listen to oppositional points of view toward it because it could cause you to question what you consider to be truths.
How can you hold anyone in judgement for anything with such a mindset?

 

[sprinkles]

We certainly gave much more leeway to Lerxst when he started the thread, so it is important to note that it is not necessarily the argument itself. I think it is also important to note WHY we dislike this person so much more than others in order to justify our biased treatment.

Yeah, I mean even my initial response to Lerxst wasn't one of outrage, it was more like "eh, you suck but whatever." Totally willing to let it go. He pushed the issue.

The fact that someone can push a topic when people complain is pretty selfish in my book. It's not like you lose face by backing off or waiting for a better time. When they are first to be defiant it shows me that they are not in fact friendly, no matter how much they try to claim they are.

 

[Skarekrow]

 

[Matt3737]

Claims that GLBT can be “caused” by child sexual abuse are troublesome because this implicitly implies that being GLBT is not a positive thing, but something that has occured as a result of serious trauma. Therefore are we not comparing being GLBT to suffering from PTSD, DID or depression? Being GLBT is not an illness!

Infact, talking of illness, according to the American Psychiatric Association (2000), a history of sexual abuse does not appear to be more prevalent in children who grow up to identify as GLBT that in people who identify as heterosexual.

Of course, sexual abuse can interfere with a survivors sexual development, sexual enjoyment, the way they engage in sexual behaviors, the ability to know and voice what they want – but it seems unlikely that it would play a role in creating passion, attraction and love for another person.

http://www.pandys.org/articles/abuseandhomosexuality.html

 

[JJJA]

 

[Matt3737]

Anybody can change his sexual orientation at any given point, it is a choice, like choosing to wear a hat on your head.

It's nothing like choosing to wear a hat on your head because that implies the choices are weighted equally. Do you wake up every day and decide who you are going to be attracted to each day? To say that it's a simple switch is to imply that every human being is fundamentally bisexual and are simply "choosing" which gender they are attracted to at any given moment.

Some claim it is impossible to develop universal theories about the origins of homosexuality because there is no theory that is going to fit for every individual and every situation (Moberly,1983).

As human beings, we are very complex, and it is far too simplistic to say with any certainty that A caused B to happen. To use an analogy, you can teach someone who is left-handed to write with their right hand, but they will forever remain naturally left-handed.

One neuroscientist wrote, “Any human behavior is going to the result of complex intermingling of genetics and environment. It would be astonishing is it were not true for homosexuality” (McFadden, 1998).

It's a deeply unconscious process that is not consciously alterable. To say otherwise is deeply ignorant unless you want to demonstrate it by choosing to change your sexual orientation yourself as an example of how easy it is.

 

[Skarekrow]

Hi @DonTaushMe, thanks for sharing your opinion, by the way listening to others' points of view doesn't mean you have to accept it as truth, it can simply benefit you in other ways, tolerance does not necessarily mean acceptance.



Anybody can change his sexual orientation at any given point, it is a choice, like choosing to wear a hat on your head. There are thousands of ex homosexuals, how can we explain that? it is simply a choice. As for the gay gene, it has never been discovered, all these 'theories' have been proven wrong. It is more likely that it is induced in the individual because of childhood molestation, rape or abuse by parents. If someone was traumatized at childhood, he will grow up to think that he was born with this trauma, but he can reverse his sexuality anytime he/she wants, that's evident by the many men who left homosexuality to be happily married to women.

"-In 1973, Robert Spitzer, a psychiatrist at the Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons, led a successful effort to remove homosexuality from the list of psychiatric disorders. This came about in part because of Spitzer’s seminal and controversial position paper on homosexuality submitted to the American Psychiatric Association that year.20 While attending the 1999 annual meeting of the American Psychiatric Association, he had contact with several ex-gays who were picketing the meeting.21 They claimed that they had changed their sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Spitzer followed up and found that there was no good research literature available either to support or refute these claims, so he conducted his own research.
-After studying a group of two-hundred individuals who had exper*ienced some sort of reorientation to a more heterosexual life*style, Spitzer submitted a paper reporting his results to the journal Archives of Sexual Behavior.22 Journal editor Kenneth Zucker decided to publish the article along with several peer commentaries, as well as a final response by Spitzer, and to introduce the group of papers with his own editorial commentary.
-The article created a great deal of controversy because Spitzer reported, “Thus, there is evidence that change in sexual orientation following some form of reparative therapy does occur in some gay men and lesbians.”23"
@DonTaushMe, did you hear about the identical twin study that was published recently? it is very interesting, I recommend reading the following article:

I think it would be very selfish if I choose to not advise someone around me whom I think is doing a great mistake to himself and the society as a whole, I don't force my views on anybody, yet some here instead of ignoring the posts which they don't like, no they want to silence those with other views, which is a pity and shows no self confidence at all. I am pretty much sure that not all forum members here want this kind of censorship, actually if you accept it now it will happen to you later.

And you have a good point @sprinkles, but if the owner of this forum is for censorship, I will gladly leave this forum, now who is the owner.

First of all your “science” is all wrong.
We know very little about all that our DNA sets predispositions for…we know of a few that can be markers for cancer, but out of 100 women with that marker, not all will get cancer.
There is nature and nurture going on here, but to infer that all homosexuals are so by choice is clearly in the “opinion” category and is backed up by pseudo-scientific and supposed “moral” organizations like these - https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-.../2015/18-anti-gay-groups-and-their-propaganda
Even if it were a choice…it isn’t your choice to make regardless of how you feel that is impacting society…you can try to pass laws restricting it and fighting it at every turn, but why focus on homosexuality?
Also the inference that homosexuals are molested at a greater rate or molest at a greater rate is nonsense.
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/faculty_sites/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
But I’m sure the psychology dept. at UC Davis is just batshit crazy...
Do you believe that it is the ill off all society?

You don’t think that a greater problem right now within this United States is the fact that we have the MOST incarcerated people in the world…a good portion of whom were non-violent drug offenders for whom numerous studies have shown recidivism rates plummet when their addiction is actually treated.
Or how about that we have millions of food insecure children here in the US? A supposedly “Christian” Nation that instead focuses on limiting the rights of people they have theological disagreements with…who shoots abortion doctors and praise them as heroes while hundreds of thousands of children are in foster care, I don’t see those same people running out and adopting two or three kids a piece…surely if you have faith in God He will provide a way to take care of them.
Just like all those other non-neglected and well-cared for, well-educated children in our society…(sarcasm)

 

[Matt3737]

[MENTION=14048]amad[/MENTION]

Better yet why don't you change your sexual orientation to bestiality and go fuck a goat, okay? Thanks. Have a nice day!

 

[cvp12gh5]

 

[CogentPursuit]

My sexual orientation is fluid and sexual orientation (For me) is a choice. I don't mean it is my personal belief that it is a choice for everyone. I mean that my experience has shown that I can be sexually aroused by both men and women and that the scale on which I am more aroused by depends on what thoughts I commonly choose to entertain or what I focus on when looking at various people and how I focus on those things.

I suggest reading this about sexual fluidity.

http://www.advocate.com/health/love-and-sex/2014/02/11/exploring-umbrella-bisexuality-and-fluidity

It is hard for me to believe that they are what they are and cannot change when my experience has shown that I personally can.I am not saying homosexuals should become heterosexuals. I am saying this situation has madeit a little harder for me to relate to them in the past and really understand how stressful and destructive emotionally it has been for them when society puts that expectation on them to change. It also can explain why some people have a hard time believing the older scientific studies that state your orientation biologically unchangeable.

I have only two explanations for why I am different.
1) Other people are not like me and for them it is not a choice
2) Other people don't know how to change

Anyway, I think this article helps explain my situation.

 

[Faye]

Anybody can change his sexual orientation at any given point, it is a choice, like choosing to wear a hat on your head. There are thousands of ex homosexuals, how can we explain that? it is simply a choice.

I can't even.

Repression is a thing.

 

[amad]

It's nothing like choosing to wear a hat on your head because that implies the choices are weighted equally. Do you wake up every day and decide who you are going to be attracted to each day? To say that it's a simple switch is to imply that every human being is fundamentally bisexual and are simply "choosing" which gender they are attracted to at any given moment.



It's a deeply unconscious process that is not consciously alterable. To say otherwise is deeply ignorant unless you want to demonstrate it by choosing to change your sexual orientation yourself as an example of how easy it is.

You can be sexually attracted to a goat Matt3737 one day, but since you have a brain most likely you would choose not to have sex with the goat. Having an unconscious whisper from the demons doesn't mean you should act upon them, you always have a choice, so leave the poor goat alone. I said it is like putting on a hat in that it is a conscious choice, I didn't say it is as easy.

@skarkrow

I think with the recent study of identical twins the case has been closed, there is no gay gene whatsoever, your genes didn't make you do it.

-A scan of the whole genome has not found any homosexual genes, unlike the case for schizophrenia (which has still only identified 4 genes linked to 3%of schizophrenia.)

-The human race shares most of its genes—something between 99.7%and 99.9%. That means all ethnic groups will have most of them. This has three implications.
If homosexuality is genetically dictated, homosexual practices will be identical or very similar in all cultures. But the enormous range and diversity of homosexual practice and customs in different cultures (and within cultures), argues against this.
-There is a much higher occurrence of homosexuality among those who have been raised in large cities, rather than in rural areas, arguing that the environment is much more powerful than genes in the development of homosexuality.

http://www.pfox.org/sidebar-pages/scientific-summary-20-years-research-ssa/

Many ex gays are coming out saying that nobody is born gay.

One real-life example is the story of identical twin sisters Bonnie Morgan and Phyllis Trapp. Bonnie formerly identified as a lesbian but left homosexuality behind, proving change is possible.

Bonnie said that during the time she identified as a lesbian, she felt she was born gay. But looking back, more than 25 years removed from the homosexual lifestyle, she now sees why her homosexual feelings happened. “We were abused as children, and I was also raped by a boyfriend,” she shares. “I was working at the time, and a year later, a woman friend approached me, and I was in the gay lifestyle for 21 years. It was not a happy lifestyle, but I tried to make it work.”

Phyllis said the entire time Bonnie identified as a lesbian, she never gave up hope. “Because she is my twin, because I love her dearly; she means the world to me. You don’t give up on anybody that you love.”

Bonnie chose to leave the gay lifestyle in 1988 after becoming a Christian. “I found what I was looking for,” she says, “And that was peace. It was peace.”

Of the claim that homosexuality is genetic, Bonnie, as a twin, says, “We have the same DNA. There is no such thing as a gay gene.”
http://www.pfox.org/identical-twins-prove-no-one-born-gay/

As for the theory that most homosexuals have been molested at a young age, I think this video makes it clear, and like I said you can ask homosexuals in a gay bar yourself and see what they will tell you, it is all about deep anger, revenge and demonic lust not love.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXGlawiibK8[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXGlawiibK8

 

[Matt3737]

You can be sexually attracted to a goat Matt3737 one day, but since you have a brain most likely you would choose not to have sex with the goat. Having an unconscious whisper from the demons doesn't mean you should act upon them, you always have a choice, so leave the poor goat alone. I said it is like putting on a hat in that it is a conscious choice, I didn't say it is as easy.

You really ARE mentally incompetent, aren't you? Those were your words being used against you. You said that it's an easy choice, not me, you idiot. You mean to imply that YOU have sexual attractions towards men, women, animals, etc, but because of your religious beliefs (God tells you which options are okay to act upon) YOU repress your sexual urges towards all those alternate orientations.

I am straight and I've never once even considered another man as a sexual object. I've never been confused about my sexual orientation, but YOU certainly sound VERY confused. Do you feel physical attractions towards same sex individuals?