Corona / Wuhan virus

Aneirin said:
So we play life and death roulette so the economy can restart. . .oh, you mean so that the billionaires can continue to make billions? we seem to have plenty of money to destroy the world a hundred times over. . plenty of money to give pharma CEO's millions of dollars. . let's see how much money every member of the congress has and see where it comes from, and while we are at it, every member of the administration too . . . .how much does every televangelist have socked away. . lets see how much cash every NFL,NBA,MLB player has on hand. . there is plenty of money, just being hoarded.and given to those who don't need it or rally earn it. .
NO it is not ok to gamble with lives for the fucking economy . .
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I wanna challenge this belief real quick.

What if I told you, and this is hypothetical,

What if I was able to prove statistically that the economic consequences of the quarantine would actually cost more lives than the virus itself?

At that point would you feel differently?
 
just me said:
and this:

Woman carries a sign up north stating "I will not comply!" That's not what the sign actually means to most, but she used it. Said she would rather die of the virus than to stay home.

Yet, another sign from a Michigan school teacher says, "Let us work."

Just saying.
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I will say that some areas... Like where I live... Are showing evidence that we could reopen pretty soon. The curve has worked well and the medical system here is well equipped to handle whatever they get so yeah..
Some of us would like to reopen the economy. Not all of us live in crowded places like NYC that are still struggling.

My state took actions early and we have expanded our testing. Things are looking good to reopen in May introducing things like masks and gloves in public and some social distancing measures. Maybe taking people's temperatures when they enter places, introducing antibody testing, etc.

Some areas can and should open.
 
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slant said:
I wanna challenge this belief real quick.

What if I told you, and this is hypothetical, c

What if I was able to prove statistically that the economic consequences of the quarantine would actually cost more lives than the virus itself?

At that point would you feel differently?
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The reason the administration wants to get the "economy going again" is to save trump's sorry ass politically. . he doesn't give a single fuck about you or anyone else. and people can play all the games they want to demonstrate whatever point they try to make and we are all supposed to fall in line, well not this time. .this is a virus that has no. . .none,nada, zip. . cure. . no vaccine, and none coming anytime soon. let's see, how many viruses have we conquered. . . one, polio. . there is a lot of pipe dreams about cures and treatments and vaccines and it's all bullshit. forcing people to return to business as usual is a death sentence for lots of folks, folks that didn't need to die, and would not have if not exposed through careless handling of what we know s a deadly virus.
fuck the economy. . .this is about the rich staying rich. . what has been done to make workplaces safer? nothing. . schools safer. . interesting that we can do at home on line teaching if we want to, then let's expand that. . we can work at home, many anyway, then let's continue, but we won't. . they want to go right back to life before corona, and that's wrong. .
sorry, I'm a nurse, I understand virus and "cures" and all the bullshit the government spews. . this is serious boys and girls. . we can't run right back to life as we knew it for the sake of the wealthy continuing to remain wealthy
 
slant said:
I will say that some areas... Like where I live... Are showing evidence that we could reopen pretty soon. The curve has worked well and the medical system here is well equipped to handle whatever they get so yeah..
Some of us would like to reopen the economy. Not all of us live in crowded places like NYC that are still struggling.

My state took actions early and we have expanded our testing. Things are looking good to reopen in May introducing things like masks and gloves in public and some social distancing measures. Maybe taking people's temperatures when they enter places, introducing antibody testing, etc.

Some areas can and should open.
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The virus does not stay within state borders.
If one state fucks it up, they fuck it up for all.
The curve is barely plateauing, it is not dropping yet, it still continues to rise daily.
Yesterday was the highest death toll in the US so far - 2400+ in 24 hours.
100+ an hour.
The US leads the world in the death toll.
Spread out across the country it may not seem like that much, but if you relax social distancing and what has been implemented now it will continue to rise and definitely not stay level or go down.
It needs to begin to drop before we should consider relaxing safety measures.
If you are cool with reopening where you live then I wish you all the luck in the world.
 
Aneirin said:
The reason the administration wants to get the "economy going again" is to save trump's sorry ass politically. . he doesn't give a single fuck about you or anyone else. and people can play all the games they want to demonstrate whatever point they try to make and we are all supposed to fall in line, well not this time. .this is a virus that has no. . .none,nada, zip. . cure. . no vaccine, and none coming anytime soon. let's see, how many viruses have we conquered. . . one, polio. . there is a lot of pipe dreams about cures and treatments and vaccines and it's all bullshit. forcing people to return to business as usual is a death sentence for lots of folks, folks that didn't need to die, and would not have if not exposed through careless handling of what we know s a deadly virus.
fuck the economy. . .this is about the rich staying rich. . what has been done to make workplaces safer? nothing. . schools safer. . interesting that we can do at home on line teaching if we want to, then let's expand that. . we can work at home, many anyway, then let's continue, but we won't. . they want to go right back to life before corona, and that's wrong. .
sorry, I'm a nurse, I understand virus and "cures" and all the bullshit the government spews. . this is serious boys and girls. . we can't run right back to life as we knew it for the sake of the wealthy continuing to remain wealthy
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Meanwhile we STILL don't have PPE for our healthcare workers who are dying to take care of sick people.
Wearing fucking trash bags for gowns.
Trump is a moron and a half.
 
Skarekrow said:
The virus does not stay within state borders.
If one state fucks it up, they fuck it up for all.
The curve is barely plateauing, it is not dropping yet, it still continues to rise daily.
Yesterday was the highest death toll in the US so far - 2400+ in 24 hours.
100+ an hour.
The US leads the world in the death toll.
Spread out across the country it may not seem like that much, but if you relax social distancing and what has been implemented now it will continue to rise and definitely not stay level or go down.
It needs to begin to drop before we should consider relaxing safety measures.
If you are cool with reopening where you live then I wish you all the luck in the world.
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At this point we need to reopen. Sorry that's just the reality.

Eventually we will develop herd immunity. Those who are at highest risk can stay at home and we can support them. Sweden's strategy is working really well, the only reason their death toll b is higher is because their statistics are more comprehensive and they include deaths that other countries don't count in their stats, primarily because Sweden has a better tracking system with the socialized medicine they have. Also they've been testing people and many many many people have already had the virus and didn't know it, many people have the antibodies already. Some areas are better equipped to handle it that others. Limit travel between the areas (which is already being done).

Like here we're tracking everyone who enters and leaves the borders of our state. Simply introduce testing at the border of the states to gain entry that resolves the problem.

Also institute social distancing measures like everyone wear gloves and mask, sanitization measures and limit how close you get to others.

This will all work.

Re open the country.
 
slant said:
At this point we need to reopen. Sorry that's just the reality.

Eventually we will develop herd immunity. Those who are at highest risk can stay at home and we can support them. Sweden's strategy is working really well, the only reason their death toll b is higher is because their statistics are more comprehensive and they include deaths that other countries don't count in their stats, primarily because Sweden has a better tracking system with the socialized medicine they have. Also they've been testing people and many many many people have already had the virus and didn't know it, many people have the antibodies already. Some areas are better equipped to handle it that others. Limit travel between the areas (which is already being done).

Like here we're tracking everyone who enters and leaves the borders of our state. Simply introduce testing at the border of the states to gain entry that resolves the problem.

Also institute social distancing measures like everyone wear gloves and mask, sanitization measures and limit how close you get to others.

This will all work.

Re open the country.
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I kindly disagree.
More death will result from reopening when we still don't have testing...still don't have respirators and the death rate is still on an upward trajectory.
 
slant said:
Sweden's strategy is working really well, the only reason their death toll b is higher is because their statistics are more comprehensive and they include deaths that other countries don't count in their stats, primarily because Sweden has a better tracking system with the socialized medicine they have.
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Nope.

Sweden grapples with high death toll after controversially refusing to lock down
April 16, 2020
https://nypost.com/2020/04/16/swede...l-after-controversially-refusing-to-lockdown/

Sweden’s controversial decision to refuse coronavirus lockdown measures is taking its toll — with the number of deaths up to 17 times higher than its Nordic neighbors, according to reports.​
 
Skarekrow said:
Nope.

Sweden grapples with high death toll after controversially refusing to lock down
April 16, 2020
https://nypost.com/2020/04/16/swede...l-after-controversially-refusing-to-lockdown/

Sweden’s controversial decision to refuse coronavirus lockdown measures is taking its toll — with the number of deaths up to 17 times higher than its Nordic neighbors, according to reports.​
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Like I said

Look at the way they track deaths.

Sweden has the same statistics for higher rape, but thats because their criteria for what they classify as sexual assault is broader. The same thing here. Sweden is counting deaths of people who have left the hospital and died at home, these people other countries would consider "recovered" because they didn't die at the hospital and it is more difficult to track.
 
Skarekrow said:
I kindly disagree.
More death will result from reopening when we still don't have testing...still don't have respirators and the death rate is still on an upward trajectory.
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My state DOES have enough tests and respirators. I'm not saying open the whole country at once. But the areas that can reopen SHOULD reopen. Just keep your borders closed and if you do let people come in have mandatory testing. Gloves masks and other precautions.

Ya'll who aren't doing well can stay closed. Utah and a few other states are equipped to reopen.
 
slant said:
Like I said

Look at the way they track deaths.

Sweden has the same statistics for higher rape, but thats because their criteria for what they classify as sexual assault is broader. The same thing here. Sweden is counting deaths of people who have left the hospital and died at home, these people other countries would consider "recovered" because they didn't die at the hospital and it is more difficult to track.
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Where are you getting your statistics?
I'm not finding anything stating your position.
 
Skarekrow said:
Not 2% across the board.

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Sure I agree. But different areas have different needs. My area is not suffering like your area. We're fine... And there's a lot of evidence that Utah actually was hit by coronavirus in late November early December. A lot of people being tested here have already had it and were either symptomless or had it months before.
 
slant said:
My state DOES have enough tests and respirators. I'm not saying open the whole country at once. But the areas that can reopen SHOULD reopen. Just keep your borders closed and if you do let people come in have mandatory testing. Gloves masks and other precautions.

Ya'll who aren't doing well can stay closed. Utah and a few other states are equipped to reopen.
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That isn't how viruses work...people with Covid can be non-symtomatic.
 
Skarekrow said:
That isn't how viruses work...people with Covid can be non-symtomatic.
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Yes but if the resources are there to handle it its less than a problem.

Widespread testing and support in the hospitals and it becomes nothing more than an extremely bad flu season.

The reason it was so bad was due to a lack of test and hospitals being swamped.

Social distancing, face masks and frequent cleaning can keep the infections to a managable level and drip feed into the hospitals instead of a flood.
 
ReasonEnduring said:
Yes but if the resources are there to handle it its less than a problem.

Widespread testing and support in the hospitals and it becomes nothing more than an extremely bad flu season.

The reason it was so bad was due to a lack of test and hospitals being swamped.

Social distancing, face masks and frequent cleaning can keep the infections to a managable level and drip feed into the hospitals instead of a flood.
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This is my point.
We don't have those resources.
And the states that claim they do can be underwater before they know it if this isn't done properly.
The curve needs to go down before we can reopen anything.
 
Skarekrow said:
That isn't how viruses work...people with Covid can be non-symtomatic.
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I'm not sure if you understand what I'm saying. I'm saying a lot of people in Utah already had the coronavirus. They've already had it and built up the antibodies. And we have enough respirators. And our hospitals are not overwhelmed. And we have a statistically younger population than the rest of the country which works too our advantage because young people are far more likely to recover from it.
 
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