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That is what I mean by the mark against you.
Discrimination against introverts?
- Thread starter Holden On
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That is what I mean by the mark against you.
Barnabas
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All discrimination is significant.
Kavalan
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Libraries... always bitching about my talking...
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Yeah, I don't think it's discrimination, we really are completely hopeless in some jobs.
Being extraverted doesn't hold you back any though.
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So what do you guys think? Is this discrimination, or simply a result of introverts being misunderstood? And what about such comments disparaging people for not being "friendly" (i.e. talkative with new people) and "social" (i.e. going out a lot)?
(I haven't made up my mind about whether I think this is discrimination, and I'm not asking this out of any personal spite or looking for advice... I got the job and I like myself the way I am.... I'm just looking for a good discussion.)
In a world of Es, what's an I to do?
It definitely is discrimination. If we are all born with genetic preferences for either introversion or extroversion, it's like the same as saying that green eyes are better then blue or something like that. How is it fair to be discriminated against a genetic disposition such as whether I'm an introvert or an extrovert?
Chiming into what Dragon said.... it's all about the definitions that people use. Most people use the word "introvert" as synonymous with terms such as; shy, reclusive, hermit etc etc. This is not what introversion is and we all know what it actually refers too. Most people don't realise that introversion is not inherent in those negative qualities but because people are ignorant they continuously perpetuate this fallacy when they relate introversion with those qualities.
Same here! I considered working in a computer shop, selling computers but... I would not be able to resist telling them to go online to this website and that, for a better deal!
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IDK I dont think this type of discrimination is a bad type. If someone who you know doesnt act like an outgoing person then I wouldnt want to hire them onto a job which requires that skill to excel. I am sure you could force yourself to be that way but I would rather have someone on the job that it comes naturally too. I also wouldnt want a job where I have to force myself to be a certain way that is unnatural for me.
VH
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I think the problem here is that the world is 2/3 extroverts, and most of those extroverts are S types who have an inherent drive to push for the things they want. It's difficult for them to understand that people who don't think like them can achieve the same things... or even more.
Holden On
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Yeah, I tend to lean toward classifying it as discrimination, although mostly motivated by a lack of understanding.
Of course, a lack of understanding is the root cause of many kinds of discrimination...
Ecton
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Amongst computer programmers/scientist introversion is often expected, but extroverts tend to do better in interfacing with business colleagues. That being said, my field also contains a fair share of socially dysfunctional personalities. This is not the same thing as introversion, and it really bugs me when people confuse the two.
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Ugh, this thread makes me even more misanthropic than I already am.
//prepares to destroy the whole world
I had the whole issues of this thread, at uni. We had this 1 lecture on "personality" in this unit which was about looking at lots of different fields (psychology, poetry etc.) to gain an understanding of them.
It was painful. 10 minutes of epic debate but... there were too many of them! The lecturer himself was a fucking introvert for christsake and he was getting arsey with me about it!
Peppermint
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I wish I could say this surprises me. A disconcerting number of people really do think that introversion is an unnatural or neurotic state (which it IS for a normal extrovert, but since they outnumber Introverts, Extroversion is seen as the norm by most). What is even more worrying are the instructions and articles on how to "cure" your child from Introversion and etc that float about on the net.
While I do agree it is more preferable to work in an environment that suits your temperament and energy levels, I get the feeling that employers prefer Extroverts, not just because of the job requirements, but because they have a reputation of being agreeable, pleasant and easy to get along with, which by some logic might make them more efficient and obedient workers. Introverts in contrast, have a mostly undeserved reputation of arrogance and standoffish-ness just because they are quiet and unengaging.
Another thing I've noticed is that some Extroverts which are by nature quick to speak their mind, find Introverts to be "slow", and even stupid because they need some more time to process their thoughts and think things through before they act, which I could see someone interpreting as a lack of competence.
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Holden On
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Holden On
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sumone
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I found discrimination within churches. I would have liked to go to church on Sunday, hear the sermon, thank the pastor, smile at people and leave.
But noooooooo ............ even after explaining to people in different churches, pastors included, that I did not intend to join in on activities, they wouldn't leave me alone. Phone calls and lectures from people at the church, I even got a couple of pop-in visits
They didn't think my introversion was christian like behaviour and they basically drove me away.
But noooooooo ............ even after explaining to people in different churches, pastors included, that I did not intend to join in on activities, they wouldn't leave me alone. Phone calls and lectures from people at the church, I even got a couple of pop-in visits
They didn't think my introversion was christian like behaviour and they basically drove me away.
Siamese cat
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I had to deal with various kinds of discrimination and those against introverts were among them for sure. Trying to see that from another perspective might help you. Ask yourself do you really want to work in a heavy extroverted field? Would you be able to lie just to get the job done? Would you be able to handle so many draining activities for a prolonged period of time? Is there something else or some other way to get what you want being it money, fame, success... whatever motivation is for wanting some job position?
Recently I got a "quick course" in retail business and "professional ethics" from a highly extroverted person and it just made me more convinced that I shouldn't be on that road. I'm emphasizing that "I" because the introversion is not the only aspect of personality that is significant, I wouldn't be good at it, but some other introverts might. I do think that some if not many introverts could work in an extroverted field if given a chance. But if someone is not giving you a chance fight for it, and I don't mean a classical fight with rising voices, giving opinions, showing resent. Fight for it smart. Introverts are mostly very observant and some of them are very good actors because they pick up others behavior, so if it were me on that job interview I'd say hell yes I'm an introvert but give me a trial period and I'll show you how good I am at showing off extroverted side. Being proactive is always good, even if predominantly introverted, and extroverts value highly protectiveness in people.
I'm surrounded by extroverts and I've learned their ways, it's just about gaining their respect and showing them that though they might not understand you or your ways they should respect them and see you as an useful person and a good worker. Being open for their voicing of opinion, and they often want to voice their opinion about you as introvert, being open to some explaining of your ways, learning not to be too abrasive with them and defensive is what will gain their respect immediately. I know that this is hard to be done in the interview session that lasts only an hour but there are some methods and introverted people should learn more about them if want to get a job in extroverted field of work.
Recently I got a "quick course" in retail business and "professional ethics" from a highly extroverted person and it just made me more convinced that I shouldn't be on that road. I'm emphasizing that "I" because the introversion is not the only aspect of personality that is significant, I wouldn't be good at it, but some other introverts might. I do think that some if not many introverts could work in an extroverted field if given a chance. But if someone is not giving you a chance fight for it, and I don't mean a classical fight with rising voices, giving opinions, showing resent. Fight for it smart. Introverts are mostly very observant and some of them are very good actors because they pick up others behavior, so if it were me on that job interview I'd say hell yes I'm an introvert but give me a trial period and I'll show you how good I am at showing off extroverted side. Being proactive is always good, even if predominantly introverted, and extroverts value highly protectiveness in people.
I'm surrounded by extroverts and I've learned their ways, it's just about gaining their respect and showing them that though they might not understand you or your ways they should respect them and see you as an useful person and a good worker. Being open for their voicing of opinion, and they often want to voice their opinion about you as introvert, being open to some explaining of your ways, learning not to be too abrasive with them and defensive is what will gain their respect immediately. I know that this is hard to be done in the interview session that lasts only an hour but there are some methods and introverted people should learn more about them if want to get a job in extroverted field of work.
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But why can't people fucking understand the simplest notion, that the human personality can be fundamentally divided into two attitudes/dichotomies- introvert and extrovert- and that they are as natural and random as to how many freckles you have on your skin.
I mean really, how hard would it be to just educate people on this? People are so fucking dumb I swear.
"To thine own self be true."
I think the important thing is to choose friends and a career that are compatible with introversion. I'm an engineer and most of my time is spent alone thinking, solving problems and designing systems. In my business activities, I've teamed with extroverts who did the selling and schmoozing I dislike so much. Generally, it has worked out well.
There are many fields in which an introvert can be comfortable and happy. I could make a long list but, when you think about it, they're obvious--they generally involve thinking and doing, not talking. However, no matter what you do, interacting with others, to some extent, is necessary.
I think the important thing is to choose friends and a career that are compatible with introversion. I'm an engineer and most of my time is spent alone thinking, solving problems and designing systems. In my business activities, I've teamed with extroverts who did the selling and schmoozing I dislike so much. Generally, it has worked out well.
There are many fields in which an introvert can be comfortable and happy. I could make a long list but, when you think about it, they're obvious--they generally involve thinking and doing, not talking. However, no matter what you do, interacting with others, to some extent, is necessary.