Discrimination against introverts?

I dont understand you guys, you are putting energy into changing other peoples behaviors and perceptions of you, that's exhausting and it always fails. If you don't want to be discriminated against for being an introvert then use that energy to analyze your own actions. You can be friendly, charming and outgoing AND introverted, believe it or not. All at the same time. Learn to master you fears, apply your logic to your social life and learn how to navigate and network with people instead of worrying about what you think they think of you. I would suggest a trial by fire because im ballsy, like take a job as a bartender or work the door at a club or something, and you will learn how to wear your smile like a disguise while you give yourself time to analyze the situation.
 
I was a bartender in a teaching restaurant for a few days. I LOVED it. I hated being a server though, I'm not physically strong enough.
I got to sit behind the big "wall" as though I was in a fort. It felt all safe :3.
 
Heh, just logged in right now and the ads on the front page included the following:

Introvert = Loser
Being Yourself is Not the Solution It's the Problem. Learn to Change.
www.ThePopularClub.com
 
This sounds very clich
 
Billy said:
I dont understand you guys, you are putting energy into changing other peoples behaviors and perceptions of you, that's exhausting and it always fails. If you don't want to be discriminated against for being an introvert then use that energy to analyze your own actions. You can be friendly, charming and outgoing AND introverted, believe it or not. All at the same time. Learn to master you fears, apply your logic to your social life and learn how to navigate and network with people instead of worrying about what you think they think of you. I would suggest a trial by fire because im ballsy, like take a job as a bartender or work the door at a club or something, and you will learn how to wear your smile like a disguise while you give yourself time to analyze the situation.
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I adjust to society every day. I make small talk with people at work and I go to social functions and talk to people. Typically in the summer I work at a job that requires me to "hawk" wares (at Ren Fest), and last summer I worked a as bartendar in addition to my regular job. I think we all do this on a daily basis. What I think most of us are saying, is that we don't think people should expect us to change who we are, or assume we are antisocial and misanthropic because we like time alone. And when we need to take that time alone, I'd prefer that people not accuse me of being a "party pooper" or a "stick in the mud."
 
Aquarelle99 said:
I adjust to society every day. I make small talk with people at work and I go to social functions and talk to people. Typically in the summer I work at a job that requires me to "hawk" wares (at Ren Fest), and last summer I worked a as bartendar in addition to my regular job. I think we all do this on a daily basis. What I think most of us are saying, is that we don't think people should expect us to change who we are, or assume we are antisocial and misanthropic because we like time alone. And when we need to take that time alone, I'd prefer that people not accuse me of being a "party pooper" or a "stick in the mud."
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Ive never been called any of those things or was thought to be misanthropic, everyone, even extroverts need time alone. Just not as much. I think the only real stigma about introversion is that people get wierded out when people dont talk or say anything because what theyre not saying can mean anything. and most people are self focused, so sitting there quietly not smiling is usually enough to make people wonder if something is wrong. but I have never been discriminated against for it.
 
Billy said:
Ive never been called any of those things or was thought to be misanthropic, everyone, even extroverts need time alone. Just not as much. I think the only real stigma about introversion is that people get wierded out when people dont talk or say anything because what theyre not saying can mean anything. and most people are self focused, so sitting there quietly not smiling is usually enough to make people wonder if something is wrong. but I have never been discriminated against for it.
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Well, you're lucky then! :) I've been called all of those things, and it's SO not me! Well, not the misanthopic/antisocial part, anyway. I admit I don't like parties sometimes, so maybe I am a party pooper. :P
 
Flavus Aquila said:
So what are the possible solutions to this kind of discrimination?
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Job : You get what you choose; choosing a job requiring extroversion when one isn't is going to cause...significant troubles later on. If one still wants the job, I don't think it's a hard task to be an extrovert for us (or at least, more sociable)

Relationship : "Don't worry, you've done nothing wrong. I'm just not feeling well today."
 
I was dinged repeatedly in military school for not being outgoing or flamboyant enough. Apparently the hallmark of a good leader is to flap one's gums incessantly. I've also run into that in corporate America, where managers and execs often spout off the biggest nonsense as though it were gospel truth, rather than stepping back a moment to really think about something before speaking. Ironically, a person is believe to be shortchanged in the brains department if they don't speak up loudly and frequently. I usually try to make sure that what I say is solid and accurate before I say it. As a consequence, I've had to fight the perception that I'm slow until people actually have the opportunity to see the quality of my work. From my experience, a large number of people who talk a lot are faking it a lot too. Still, perception rules and they are perceived to have it all together ... so they often wind up on top. Yes, I believe that introverts are discriminated against and are at a disadvantage in this world.

I have to caveat what Norton said however ... there are fields and niches that cater to introverts. I've found software engineering to be one of them. I have plenty of opportunity to spend lots of quality alone time thinking through problems and crafting solutions. I also agree that some measure of interaction with others is necessary in this world ... and I try to step out of my comfort zone to achieve this on a daily basis.
 
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Aquarelle99 said:
Sometimes I get annoyed at things I hear. Frequently, I hear people say things like "I don't care much for my sister's boyfriend... he's just not very friendly" or "She's no fun - she never wants to go out." Also, job descriptions often say things like "Seeking outgoing, energetic candidate," "must be a team player" and sometimes even outright "introverts would not be a good fit for this job."

Looking for someone who can make small talk with customers or work well on a team is fine, if that is a requirement for the job. But what I find annoying is when people assume that an introvert won't be good at such jobs simply because of their introversion. Most introverts CAN do those things, they're just not necessarily our favorite things or those that come most naturally to us. But heck, getting out of bed at 6:30 am doesn't come naturally to me either, and no one questions my ability to do that! (I ran into this problem when I was an internal candidate for a job opening in my office. Everyone knew I was am an introvert, and I had to try that much harder to convince them I could do the job, even though I had in fact been doing large parts of the job when another person was out on maternity leave! I eventually got the job, but not that time - I got it when another position opened up and I made sure in my interview to specifically state that I am certainly capable of doing the even the parts of the job that don't come naturally to me.)

So what do you guys think? Is this discrimination, or simply a result of introverts being misunderstood? And what about such comments disparaging people for not being "friendly" (i.e. talkative with new people) and "social" (i.e. going out a lot)?

(I haven't made up my mind about whether I think this is discrimination, and I'm not asking this out of any personal spite or looking for advice... I got the job and I like myself the way I am.... I'm just looking for a good discussion. :) )

In a world of Es, what's an I to do? :)
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I do know what you mean because even at my job (that doesn't require tons of human interaction), I do get rather drained and tired by the end of it. Of course, I can be outgoing (when I want to be) and can be out and about. Although I'd be quite drained, by the end of the day. Would I call it discrimination? Not necessarly since customer interaction can require quite a bit of that E side to show up and us I's (even us INFJ's, who tend to be one of the more outgoing of the I's) can be rather drained. However; if you can do the job or need it, I don't see why you should be passed up for it merely for being an I as opposed to an E.

DoveAlexa said:
Heh! This is why I'm glad I've developed my Fe really well, I can act pretty damned E when I want/need to, like in an interview or when dealing with customers. Its really draining though, I come home completely beat and not really wanting to engage people on that level or even close for the rest of the night. However, I tend to "save it" for the customers when I am actually working, essentially saving my strength. Though I'm sure I come off as a bitch to my co workers by not engaging them as much as "socially expected".

Fuck em I say

Also, I HATE those assholes who like to "use" the MBTI in the workplace but haven't got a hot clue what it actually means...(to the detriment of anyone they perceive as inferior due to their lack of understanding). This is why I am dodging the rat race entirely and doing my own thing in life.

/end misanthropy
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I'm not too bad at being interactive with my co workers, but I don't have a job that requires me to interact with customer's, so that does help me there.

Aquarelle99 said:
I had a job selling luggage at the mall for 2 months. It sucked. I didn't want people to waste their money on things they didn't need, or more expensive luggage than they'd budgeted for!

Introversion was part of it, but really it was a conscience thing. I just couldn't do it either.
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I can see why it sucked, I would never see myself as a saleswomen just because I don't like having to be that pushy. Also... I've told a few sales men and women to get lost because they were starting to annoy me.

Aquarelle99 said:
We can discuss that in this thread, too, if any of the Es on this fourm care to chime in. :)

I'm happy with the responses so far... I figured since this an INFJ forum, most people would "get it," but I wasn't sure. I started a topic like this on another random forum once, and people railed against me!
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Aquarelle99 said:
Railed against me. I mean, they became indignant. One guy said anyone who identifies as an introvert "has a lack of interesting things to say, is self-absorbed and possessed of a victim mentality." I didn't think that was very nice of him.
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That is just retarded and shows that guy how big of a bigot he really is. Funny thing is though... I'm actually quite good at showing those people up and making total jack asses of them. It's an entertaining hobby for me.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
So what are the possible solutions to this kind of discrimination?
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The solution is easy really - just explain it to people and hope they understand and believe you. It should be easy but it's damn hard to get people to actually listen to you when their lips are always flapping and they continue to label incorrectly.

It took a year and a half of working closely with my boss before she finally accepted me for myself and started to appreciate our differences. Prior to that she was continually trying to change me into her! And she is an E, extrordinaire!

A major obstacle with people is what Nighthawk said. They don't allow for thinking time. They want a snappy answer or decision and if they don't get it they start assuming all sorts of incorrect things.

I'm not sure there is a solution to this. Well, there is but it's damn tiring!
 
lilpixieofterror said:
Personally, I'd say that those E's need to learn to apprecate the I's for who they are and likewise, the I's need to do the same.
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I think that's what it comes down to. I won't disagree that Is need to accept Es for who they are... but I think we're closer to that already since society tells us that E is the way to be. Many of us Is, especially as kids and young adults, get down on ourselves for our introverted qualities, because we're taught from an early age not only to accept Es, but to aspire to be an E.

Like I said above, if there is discrimination, I think it's mainly due to the fact that most people are Es, and they just don't understand us. Somehow, we need to get them to understand us. But yes, it is hard to do when they won't STFU! ;)
 
Aquarelle99 said:
I think that's what it comes down to. I won't disagree that Is need to accept Es for who they are... but I think we're closer to that already since society tells us that E is the way to be. Many of us Is, especially as kids and young adults, get down on ourselves for our introverted qualities, because we're taught from an early age not only to accept Es, but to aspire to be an E.
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Oh, I wouldn't dispute that with you, I was just luckly enough to have loving and accepting parents that didn't think it was at all weird for me to be by myself then out and about all the time. They brought me lego's to play with (which I sometimes still play with today, I might add) and plenty of books to read (which I still have a fairly large collection of books). I wasn't the most popular girl in school, but I'm noticing that now I'm older, some people who would have thought of me as a 'dork' when we were teens, now get along with me. Although I suspect it is just because I'm the 'smart girl' or 'the good listener' and they want those skills for me.

Like I said above, if there is discrimination, I think it's mainly due to the fact that most people are Es, and they just don't understand us. Somehow, we need to get them to understand us. But yes, it is hard to do when they won't STFU! ;)
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Oh, I'd agree that many don't and I've faced my fair share of them myself. However; I can't say too many bad things about E's, since my soon to be hubby is an ENFJ, but it's ok, He can be the social one and keep some the attention off from me all he wants. :)
 
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Tactical Panda said:
Learn to thrive in an extroverted world.
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Bingo, learn to wear your smile like a mask and give yourself time to analyze. Easy enough to handle. People act like if they open up they will somehow have to spill everything about themselves and be all judged, jesus, don't tell them anything, they're coworkers just make something up, be creative and funny. Learn humor pacing and how to make people laugh.
 
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