Discrimination against introverts?

[Odyne]

Many people (specially employers) mistake introversion (that is in the MBTI test) for shyness and inability to communicate with others. It`s not necessarily that. For some people, it's just where you draw your energy from. Introverts draw their energy from their inner world, extroverts draw their energy from their external world.

That being said, it is in no way a disability, and should never be looked at it that way, especially by introverts themselves. I think that we are very discriminatory towards ourselves as well. Many of us refuse to engage in activities and interact with people because we are afraid of rejection or misunderstanding. I mean if it's not your scene then that's fine and completely accepted, and no one can argue with it. But if you refuse to get out there, because you are afraid of what others might think of you or afraid of rejection, then you have committed the first act of discrimination against yourself, and you have labeled yourself and built up walls and boundaries around you without even trying.

However, Introverts are also discriminatory against extroverts. I`ve seen people hating others because one is more popular, or another is just friendlier than they are. Some of them even avoid extroverts because they think that all extroverts do is engage in small talk and are incapable of deep thought. That's discrimination and prejudice, right there!

At work, if I was an employer, and I am employing for a job that demands a lot of interaction with people and a lot of small talk, then I will hire the one who is going to do a better job. Regardless of whether they are introverts or extroverts. Actually, there are some extroverts who are inept at communicating with people and weird others out, just as much as there are introverts who have amazing communication skills and can relate to people and draw them in.

I can relate to the need to have some people understand me. But let me tell you that INFJs are waaay too complex for other types. Even we can`t understand ourselves sometimes. However, I can't demand from other people to put in an effort to understand ME! I can't demand from other people to make ME feel comfortable around them. People are people, and each have their own tastes in social groups and social activity. If you wanna be part of a group then surely, you`ll have to have something in common with them, and be capable of keeping up with them. If that;s not what you want, then stay in your comfort zone.

Finally, I think that putting yourself out there can be very rewarding. I personally love taking up the challenge of working with Es, even ES sometimes, and butting heads with them, but that`s just me. lol

Just remeber! Harmony gives Comfort, while Conflict gives Growth, and it's difficult to find both. So, it's up to you to choose which one you want.

 

[Billy]

I'm saying we need to show them that introversion is not a disability or disadvantage we need to "overcome."

And I am saying, who is saying that? And since when did other peoples opinions begin to matter to introverts? We have our own worlds.

I don't want to put on a show for people around me - how can you possibly develop a sincere, mature relationship with someone if you pretend to be something you're not when you're around them? I want people to know and appreciate who I really am. The idea of wearing an image like clothing seems very superficial to me.

I'm sorry, but how old are you? Do you have any idea how many people there are? You cannot possibly befriend, understand and bond with all of them. In fact you will never even meet 99% of them. Being able to move through so many people in a crowd and not go insane is no easy task, the way to do it is to learn to sell an image of yourself to the people you have no intention of getting to know too personally.

I DOUBT you have ever been bullied for being an introvert by your true friends, by definition they would be close enough to you that you would open up to them and they would understand you to a degree...

So I assume the people you are talking about are the people who ultimately don't matter to your existence in a meaningful way anyway. And the you you sell them doesnt have to be evil, the me I sell to people on a superficial scale is extremely pleasant to be around, all the best attributes of being an INFJ, there is no need to let them in on my demons. YOU get to pick and choose what people know.

The more superficial the relationship, the less they get to see the real inner workings of you and just the shell you want them to see. There is nothing wrong with that. it helps the world operate better. If everyone did that we would all be better off.

Don't get too wrapped up in the meanings to words like superficial. The majority of the relationships you will have with people all through the history of your life will be superficial, you might let 100 people in over the years but there will be 100 millions you wont.

Learning to deal with that other 100 million is essential. I am not telling you to lie, I am simply saying you can more readily and easily engage new people and appear extroverted if you understand the rules to the game. You shouldn't feel guilty for withholding personal info fro people, that's your right as an individual. Its not lying if you don't tell them all your fears.

Of course there are certain circumstances (first dates, work, interviews, etc) where you do have to "put on a show." But the show shouldn't last forever.

I dont get it, so why is a show ok to put on to the people who will matter most to you, your employer, prospective boyfriend/husband but not the other million people you will only ever be slightly acquainted with?

I think you have it backwards. In a job interview I am as much of myself as possible, I would never sell myself as someone different to the guy who is cutting my check, I want to network with him and befriend him so he can sell my qualities to others in the industry. Thats who I am genuine with. Any woman I meet, I give them an accurate depiction of who and what I am. The strengths and my sensitivities. Because if I have to lie to make her like me, I will have to carry that lie and that show forever... not with the person who I may fall in love with and build a family with, Lady Gaga has some nifty lyrics for that "I want your ugly, I want your disease" its true... If you're going to date and love someone you have to date and love all of them, even their flaws. Thats where I would want to be genuine.

Please dont think I am picking on you, I am not... I enjoy what you are writing its fun to think about. I do however believe and most respectfully that this thought of introvert persecution is probably a self made construct. I have never come into any walls because of my introversion unless I was the one who built them. Thats sort of the conundrum for all introverts isn't it? That we are more apt to self sabotage our social lives at times with isolation so we can relax and recharge. Its our need that compels us to do this, ergo our responsibility to combat its effects.

I compensate for it personally by being aggressive and forceful so that I dont get walked all over. I do try to remain respectful and I try to keep other peoples feelings and needs in mind along with my own, but I find counterphobia to work best.

 

[Holden On]

And I am saying, who is saying that? And since when did other peoples opinions begin to matter to introverts? We have our own worlds.



I'm sorry, but how old are you? Do you have any idea how many people there are? You cannot possibly befriend, understand and bond with all of them. In fact you will never even meet 99% of them. Being able to move through so many people in a crowd and not go insane is no easy task, the way to do it is to learn to sell an image of yourself to the people you have no intention of getting to know too personally.

I DOUBT you have ever been bullied for being an introvert by your true friends, by definition they would be close enough to you that you would open up to them and they would understand you to a degree...

So I assume the people you are talking about are the people who ultimately don't matter to your existence in a meaningful way anyway. And the you you sell them doesnt have to be evil, the me I sell to people on a superficial scale is extremely pleasant to be around, all the best attributes of being an INFJ, there is no need to let them in on my demons. YOU get to pick and choose what people know.

The more superficial the relationship, the less they get to see the real inner workings of you and just the shell you want them to see. There is nothing wrong with that. it helps the world operate better. If everyone did that we would all be better off.

Don't get too wrapped up in the meanings to words like superficial. The majority of the relationships you will have with people all through the history of your life will be superficial, you might let 100 people in over the years but there will be 100 millions you wont.

Learning to deal with that other 100 million is essential. I am not telling you to lie, I am simply saying you can more readily and easily engage new people and appear extroverted if you understand the rules to the game. You shouldn't feel guilty for withholding personal info fro people, that's your right as an individual. Its not lying if you don't tell them all your fears.



I dont get it, so why is a show ok to put on to the people who will matter most to you, your employer, prospective boyfriend/husband but not the other million people you will only ever be slightly acquainted with?

I think you have it backwards. In a job interview I am as much of myself as possible, I would never sell myself as someone different to the guy who is cutting my check, I want to network with him and befriend him so he can sell my qualities to others in the industry. Thats who I am genuine with. Any woman I meet, I give them an accurate depiction of who and what I am. The strengths and my sensitivities. Because if I have to lie to make her like me, I will have to carry that lie and that show forever... not with the person who I may fall in love with and build a family with, Lady Gaga has some nifty lyrics for that "I want your ugly, I want your disease" its true... If you're going to date and love someone you have to date and love all of them, even their flaws. Thats where I would want to be genuine.

Please dont think I am picking on you, I am not... I enjoy what you are writing its fun to think about. I do however believe and most respectfully that this thought of introvert persecution is probably a self made construct. I have never come into any walls because of my introversion unless I was the one who built them. Thats sort of the conundrum for all introverts isn't it? That we are more apt to self sabotage our social lives at times with isolation so we can relax and recharge. Its our need that compels us to do this, ergo our responsibility to combat its effects.

I compensate for it personally by being aggressive and forceful so that I dont get walked all over. I do try to remain respectful and I try to keep other peoples feelings and needs in mind along with my own, but I find counterphobia to work best.

I'm sorry, but how old are YOU? My age is underneath my avatar.

I'm perfectly aware of the number of people on Earth, and I am perfectly aware I'll never meet 99% of them. I'm not concerned about what people that I don't know personally think about me - random people in a dance club, people I pass on the street, etc. So why should I put on a show for them?

I'm also not talking about my close friends and family. In fact, I have been bullied by some of them for not wanting to go to this or that party, but once I explained what it means to be an introvert, now they understand.

The people I'm talking about are the acquaintances, but not necessarily friends, that I have to deal with every day - my coworkers, professors, classmates, etc. Most of them are perfectly nice people, but I am frequently underestimated or judged negatively because they do not understand me. These people, I feel, need to have an understanding of the real me, not a show. If they don't, it has a negative affect on me (not being chosen for a promotion, getting low "participation" grades in class because I don't speak up as often as other students, etc). It is simply not possible to go around and explain what it means to be an introvert to each of these people. They should be familiar with the concept and able to recognize it on their own.

For example, my professor in the class I just finished had in-class written reflections, in addition to discussion. This was perfect, because then I had a chance to process my thoughts and "participate" in my own way. At the end of the course, she said to me, "You were a bit quiet, but I knew you were processing," and I responded with, "Yeah, I'm more of a written-word kinda girl" and she said, "Yup, I get it." This was amazingly refreshing, when usually I feel I am expected to work that much harder not only to learn the material, but to speak up in class, while the Es in class just do what comes naturally to them. Don't get me wrong - I DO push myself to talk in class. But I'm never going to talk as much as most Es do.

As for the first date, interview, etc... I have to put on a show for a first date of being the type of person who opens up to a stranger on a first date - otherwise, I've noticed, people decide that I am boring and don't bother to spend the time to get to know me. (Luckily, my husband and I met online, so I was able to open up to him slowly, via the written word, before we met in person.) At a job interview, I am sorry, but if I go in and say, "I'm a pretty quiet person. I don't speak up a lot. I am not great at networking" then I'm not going to get the job. I have to put on a show to show the potential employer that I'm capable of at least ACTING like an E... but I'm not going to pretend forever.

You may not be intending to pick on me, and I don't mean to be too argumentative back toward you, but I really think it's quite inaccurate to say that if I possess the basic human longing to be understood, that I am painting myself as a victim. I take great offense to people accusing me of labeling myself a victim - I always stand up for myself and for others who I feel are being treated unfairly. Are gay rights activists labeling themselves victims when they stand up for their right to be who they are and work to promote the understanding that one's sexual orientation is not a choice, but something people are born with? Are people who suffer from mental health conditions labeling themselves victims when they prefer that people think of mental health issues as treatable illnesses, rather than character defects? No. They are pointing out a misunderstanding of their particular situation and working
toward helping others to understand them better in order to promote equality.

 

[Billy]

I really am unsure of what the argument is here, I do know you just said exactly what I have been saying, you're acquaintances... who do you think I was telling you to put the show on for?

Definitely not close friends or romantic interests or family.

And as an INFJ you're only really 50% introverted, half your functions are Extroverted functions, and being an INFJ myself know that Fe is a hell of a confusing trait to handle.

also I'll be 30 in January.

 

[Holden On]

Well, I don't want to put a show on for the the acquaintances, either. It is too much for them to accept me as I am?

If you don't agree that introverts are discriminated against, that's fine. Maybe you're less introverted than I am (I disagree that I am only 50% - my score is usually closer to 85% introverted as opposed to extroverted), or maybe you just haven't experienced people reacting negatively to your introversion. But don't tell me that I haven't, or that anything I "think" I have experienced is all in my head because I have a "victim mentality." You don't know me, and you don't know what I have or have not experienced!

 

[Inquisitive]

There is ignorance around what it means to be introverted.

When ignorance, willful or not, leads to discrimination, there is always a victim.

Victims, who, by their own actions, perpetuate the victimization, move into codependence of some variety by minimizing their own needs.

Victims who move into proactive action of any kind are standing up for “self”.

INFJ’s often have trouble standing up for “self”.

Both of you have demonstrated the ability to do so.

So thank you.

 

[Paixlune]

I was talking to a friend today abou how society (video games in particular) are made to cater to interverts. The example was that the local Gameworks went out of business and I launched into something about how video games and entertainment in general is made for people who dont want to leave their house - the supposed introvert. IDK it was just a tangent sorry for the derail.

Not mmo's, darn it. I'm always forced to group with people for high level content when I would rather solo.

 

[the]

Not mmo's, darn it. I'm always forced to group with people for high level content when I would rather solo.

yeah but you are still not leaving the house and you dont really have to interact, you can just follow the leaders instructions... but really it is obvious to attack certain things and stay away from others if you are an experienced player. Plus if you want to you can just pull the plug whereas in real life if you just walk away you are sending a negative signal to someone.