Discrimination against introverts?

[Billy]

I think the reason I tend to like E's is because the majority of the E's I hang with are also N's

ES's on the other hand can be.... taxing.

 

[lilpixieofterror]

I think the reason I tend to like E's is because the majority of the E's I hang with are also N's

ES's on the other hand can be.... taxing.

That's been my experience, they also seem more focused on 'just the facts' and 'the rules' that they lose sight of the more imaginative things.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Job : You get what you choose; choosing a job requiring extroversion when one isn't is going to cause...significant troubles later on. If one still wants the job, I don't think it's a hard task to be an extrovert for us (or at least, more sociable)

Relationship : "Don't worry, you've done nothing wrong. I'm just not feeling well today."

The solution is easy really - just explain it to people and hope they understand and believe you. It should be easy but it's damn hard to get people to actually listen to you when their lips are always flapping and they continue to label incorrectly.

It took a year and a half of working closely with my boss before she finally accepted me for myself and started to appreciate our differences. Prior to that she was continually trying to change me into her! And she is an E, extrordinaire!

A major obstacle with people is what Nighthawk said. They don't allow for thinking time. They want a snappy answer or decision and if they don't get it they start assuming all sorts of incorrect things.

I'm not sure there is a solution to this. Well, there is but it's damn tiring!

Personally, I'd say that those E's need to learn to apprecate the I's for who they are and likewise, the I's need to do the same.

Learn to thrive in an extroverted world.

So genocide would be inappropriate?

I think the reason I tend to like E's is because the majority of the E's I hang with are also N's

ES's on the other hand can be.... taxing.

These answers are about dealing with/working with discrimination. At best they are about getting people to see beyond their prejudice and appreciate you.

These approaches don't address, confront, or begin to solve the problem of prejudices or discrimination - because even if they learn to accept you after you have had to prove yourself in a manner above and beyond the usual requirement, the next introvert may still get a raw deal.




In some societies (including some Western societies) taboos, customs, norms, manners etc. require that people reserve comments until asked for them, for example. It seems that simple good manners make it equally easy/possible for Introverts and Extroverts to function productively in about 25% of situations where Extroverts leave introverts for dead.

 

[lilpixieofterror]

These answers are about dealing with/working with discrimination. At best they are about getting people to see beyond their prejudice and appreciate you.

These approaches don't address, confront, or begin to solve the problem of prejudices or discrimination - because even if they learn to accept you after you have had to prove yourself in a manner above and beyond the usual requirement, the next introvert may still get a raw deal.

The best way to deal with the problem is to show that you can do what they don't think you are capable of doing. In my job, it's quite male dominated and I know that some of the guys tend to think women can't do it. How do I overcome this? I do it by this... proving that I can do it and be just as good as they are. I found that is the best way to tear down prejudice and/or discrimination, to prove that the other person is wrong by your actions.

 

[Holden On]

Oh, I wouldn't dispute that with you, I was just luckly enough to have loving and accepting parents that didn't think it was at all weird for me to be by myself then out and about all the time. They brought me lego's to play with (which I sometimes still play with today, I might add) and plenty of books to read (which I still have a fairly large collection of books). I wasn't the most popular girl in school, but I'm noticing that now I'm older, some people who would have thought of me as a 'dork' when we were teens, now get along with me. Although I suspect it is just because I'm the 'smart girl' or 'the good listener' and they want those skills for me.



Oh, I'd agree that many don't and I've faced my fair share of them myself. However; I can't say too many bad things about E's, since my soon to be hubby is an ENFJ, but it's ok, He can be the social one and keep some the attention off from me all he wants.

My husband is ESFJ - it's much better when we can go to parties and stuff together, because then I can just stick with him and join in to conversations that way. Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against Es! They know not what they do... (Well, most of them, anyway.)

 

[lilpixieofterror]

My husband is ESFJ - it's much better when we can go to parties and stuff together, because then I can just stick with him and join in to conversations that way. Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against Es! They know not what they do... (Well, most of them, anyway.)

I've done the same thing myself, but I do see your entire point. While I don't necessarly think it is quite at the level of, out and out, discrimination, there can often be a stigma against us. It's ok though, I think it's fun to prove these people wrong.

 

[Inquisitive]

So what are the possible solutions to this kind of discrimination?

In the seeming absence of a large scale social movement...

It would be the reshaping of individual understanding on a case by case basis, which is what has seemed to work in this instance and is a product of her persistance.

I think that while the MBTI and all the understanding it gives to our differences, is not the "hot topic" that it use to be, it is well rooted and we will continue to see it's fruit and that large scale social movement is still occuring.

Something to consider... Being INFJ's, where we are discriminated against because of our Introversion, we are catered to in our Intuition, specifically in the area of education. I can't really call that a bright side though, since all discrimination makes me sad.

 

[Inquisitive]

These approaches don't address, confront, or begin to solve the problem of prejudices or discrimination - because even if they learn to accept you after you have had to prove yourself in a manner above and beyond the usual requirement, the next introvert may still get a raw deal.

If social change more readily occurs under conscious awareness of the need to change, then I think the question is "How do we sell it?"

 

[Trifoilum]

If social change more readily occurs under conscious awareness of the need to change, then I think the question is "How do we sell it?"

good one.

 

[DoveAlexa]

If social change more readily occurs under conscious awareness of the need to change, then I think the question is "How do we sell it?"

We blame everything bad that has ever happened in the past century as being the fault of E's or E vs I discrimination, whilst also re-typing all the bad I's as E's with lots of bogus but awesome sounding reasoning?

 

[Blind Bandit]

We blame everything bad that has ever happened in the past century as being the fault of E's or E vs I discrimination, whilst also re-typing all the bad I's as E's with lots of bogus but awesome sounding reasoning?

That sounds good to me. We seem to get that already.lol

 

[Quinlan]

I think to make up for all this discrimination all introverts should be offered well paying cushy jobs immediately.

 

[Blind Bandit]

I think to make up for all this discrimination all introverts should be offered well paying cushy jobs immediately.

Agreed , right now

In all seriousness it would be nice to not be called a freak and that we needed to be fixed.

 

[Ecton]

I second Quinlan's motion and suggest it move directly to a vote? Any objections?

I think Billy made an important point. Introversion is not the same thing as being poorly adjusted, shy, or unable to express oneself freely. I think those may be more of a combination of nature/nurture than an innate MBTI classification characteristic. I think all introverts have that limit on how much social contact they like, and how much thinking/feeling time they want (alot), but beyond that there are still many different ways to be an introvert.

To the extent that our civilization prefers extroversion: I think we introverts may want to start banding together more. And not in an extroverted way! Our minority position can be compensated for in a modern communications environment. I think a place like this one is a good step forward.

 

[Inquisitive]

Bingo, learn to wear your smile like a mask and give yourself time to analyze. Easy enough to handle. People act like if they open up they will somehow have to spill everything about themselves and be all judged, jesus, don't tell them anything, they're coworkers just make something up, be creative and funny. Learn humor pacing and how to make people laugh.

Look at you and your madd skills!

This giving ourselves permission to hold something of ourselves back is so necessary, but seems like a real issue for many INFJ's. Whats that about do you think?

 

[DoveAlexa]

Look at you and your madd skills!

This giving ourselves permission to hold something of ourselves back is so necessary, but seems like a real issue for many INFJ's. Whats that about do you think?

Although I hate to admit it, but I have given my coworkers or strangers half-truths or outright lies a number of times just to get by. I don't want to look like a freak or make people uncomfortable so if its easier to say something like I plan to go back and finish my degree when I have never been to university, rather than admit to just being clueless about my future I'll do that instead.

 

[Holden On]

I second Quinlan's motion and suggest it move directly to a vote? Any objections?

I think Billy made an important point. Introversion is not the same thing as being poorly adjusted, shy, or unable to express oneself freely. I think those may be more of a combination of nature/nurture than an innate MBTI classification characteristic. I think all introverts have that limit on how much social contact they like, and how much thinking/feeling time they want (alot), but beyond that there are still many different ways to be an introvert.

To the extent that our civilization prefers extroversion: I think we introverts may want to start banding together more. And not in an extroverted way! Our minority position can be compensated for in a modern communications environment. I think a place like this one is a good step forward.

I vote "Aye" on Quinlan's motion!!

But seriously, Ecton, I think you have the right idea. We need to band together, and try to educate people on personality differences.

 

[Billy]

Look at you and your madd skills!

This giving ourselves permission to hold something of ourselves back is so necessary, but seems like a real issue for many INFJ's. Whats that about do you think?

Hyper self awareness and worrying about hurting people by talking too much. When I get a point in my head I can be rather aggressive in getting it out, and then when I look around at all the mortified faces I usually just shut up. Sometimes Some of the twists in my thoughts come from such a deep place they seem completely random even if I had been thinking about it for a long time.

I spent years working on perfecting my delivery, once that was done and I knew how to effectively shadow a portion of my thought process but still knew the angles for making people laugh and trust me.

TBH most of the hard part is just breaking through that mental filter that we put on ourselves and forcing data out. People will make up their minds about us based on our actions, I try not to let people speculate and show them who I am or who I want them to believe I am up front.

 

[Billy]

I vote "Aye" on Quinlan's motion!!

But seriously, Ecton, I think you have the right idea. We need to band together, and try to educate people on personality differences.

What you are falling into is labeling yourself as a victim.

Why do introverts need protection? Are we so weak and frail that we need it?

And introverts banding together sounds like an oxymoron. I know I wouldn't want people looking at me saying "oh look hes a poor introvert we should be nice to him".

Helllllllllll no.

I like blending in and being anonymous until I am ready to spring into action and take everyone by surprise. Which is exactly how I leverage my efforts, I am the surprise kid.

Stay in the trenches underground, and dont let them see you coming, when the time is right BAMO! Sucker punch, dont let them breath! Your silence is a natural gift, you can operate amidst a lot of different groups without ever really being understood and take wihtout being noticed.

I know this social chameleon-ism seems wrong, but I have come to grips that being a deep person means having a LOOOOOOOOOOT of interests, and I do...

So who I am to one group of friends isnt ALWAYS the same person as who I am elsewhere. I am inside at the core, but who I let them see is usually differing depending on the context.

When I go out salsa dancing for example, its patron, gold chains, dancing and extroversion.

When I am with my astronomy group you would think I was Carl Sagan himself.

Learn to wear your image like clothing and put on a show for the people around you.

I call it the Billy show, its how I have survived this long without blowing my brains out.

 

[Holden On]

What you are falling into is labeling yourself as a victim.

Why do introverts need protection? Are we so weak and frail that we need it?

And introverts banding together sounds like an oxymoron. I know I wouldn't want people looking at me saying "oh look hes a poor introvert we should be nice to him".

Helllllllllll no.

I like blending in and being anonymous until I am ready to spring into action and take everyone by surprise. Which is exactly how I leverage my efforts, I am the surprise kid.

Stay in the trenches underground, and dont let them see you coming, when the time is right BAMO! Sucker punch, dont let them breath! Your silence is a natural gift, you can operate amidst a lot of different groups without ever really being understood and take wihtout being noticed.

I know this social chameleon-ism seems wrong, but I have come to grips that being a deep person means having a LOOOOOOOOOOT of interests, and I do...

So who I am to one group of friends isnt ALWAYS the same person as who I am elsewhere. I am inside at the core, but who I let them see is usually differing depending on the context.

When I go out salsa dancing for example, its patron, gold chains, dancing and extroversion.

When I am with my astronomy group you would think I was Carl Sagan himself.

Learn to wear your image like clothing and put on a show for the people around you.

I call it the Billy show, its how I have survived this long without blowing my brains out.

I don't see how saying we should band together to promote greater understanding is labeling myself as a victim. I'm not saying we need protection or for people to look at us as "poor introverts." In fact, I'm saying the exact opposite. I'm saying we need to let people know that we are perfectly happy just the way we are, and that we are also perfectly capable of doing anything Es can do. I'm saying we need to get OTHERS to stop thinking of us as victims of our own introversion. I'm saying we need to show them that introversion is not a disability or disadvantage we need to "overcome."

I don't want to put on a show for people around me - how can you possibly develop a sincere, mature relationship with someone if you pretend to be something you're not when you're around them? I want people to know and appreciate who I really am. The idea of wearing an image like clothing seems very superficial to me.

I have a lot of interests, from traveling, foreign language, books, music, dogs, Ren Faires, pirates, Star Trek... I can go out salsa dancing as well, but I can do so as myself, without putting on a costume, and still have a good time. I can go to a French conversation group and participate in deep conversations as opposed to small talk. I can travel - with people or by myself - in a foreign country and get into deep conversations with the locals in a cafe, or I can sit by myself in the cafe and watch people and reflect upon the culture I am witnessing. I can participate in a musical group and feel at one with others there, or I can play my flute alone at home and be perfectly happy as well. The only place where I DO put on a costume and play a character is at Ren Fest - and I admit that it is fun to pretend to be someone else for a few weekends out of the year.... but would I want to do it all the time? Absolutely not. It seems to me that you are falling into the trap of believing what society believes about Is - you have to be someone else (or pretend to be) in order to succeed. I don't think that is healthy and I think you're selling yourself short. However, if you wish to do that, it is your prerogative. I, however, do not intend to hide "the real me" behind a mask that is more "favorable" to society.

Of course there are certain circumstances (first dates, work, interviews, etc) where you do have to "put on a show." But the show shouldn't last forever.