Science has not proven that the Universe can exist as it does without God, because it cannot prove God did not create and enforce the naturally occurring laws. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not just doing the "na na na na na you can't disprove him!" Thing, I'm merely making a point: The evidence is there, it depends on how you look at it, I see God's handiwork in everything, I find the fact that the universe runs so perfectly part of brilliance. You however see a self sustaining universe. Its kind of like Evolution, we're both looking at the same stuff, we just have different ideas, I believe I am right, and you believe you are right. But its really pointless to argue because again, at our cores we're fundamentally different, when the physical doesn't make sense, I go to the metaphysical, for you, I'll presume that when the physical doesn't make sense you simply hold out for more physical. This is why I dislike religious discussion topics, they tend to just go in circles, and that's not one party's fault or the other, its just who we are. The Bible says we can't make anyone believe in God, instead we are to show them the Bible and the Holy Spirit will work on their hearts.
I guess my only problem is the insinuation that religious people are not rational. You, (Billy) may not be making that assertion yourself, but many people have before and its tiresome. I understand the world feels like Christianity rains on peoples parades -- but look at America, based on Christian principles, was once a place for freedom and hope for all Religions and peoples, only now that it has become more secular that some of the freedom has gone. But that is a whole nother topic.
The physical does make sense Saru, there are oceans of evidence to back up evolution. And there is no real brilliance in the universe, there's plenty of elegance, but its not perfectly designed. Stars only use 3% of their gas, we breath and eat out of the same hole in our necks, these are flawed designs. And yes, the universe have been proven from the big bang forward NOT to need a creator to exist. If you want to say then that "God" started what was there before hand you need to consider that there is no need for beginnings and ends in the realm of Quantum time becomes obsolete. Furthermore as the quote I posted before, if God is simply the benchmark for our ignorance, then he is ever receding as we learn more and more. Metaphysics while fun to talk about is really nothing.
For my part, when we reach the limits of our understanding, I don't put God there... it doesn't make sense. You need evidence for your beliefs, real tangible evidence... at the limits of our understanding I simply say "i don't know" its arrogant to conclude at those limits "its god" that's an irrational statement.
And while we were founded on Christian principles, we were also founded on SECULAR principles. The founders were not all religious people, in fact many of them were hard core secularists which is why they wrote the constitution that way. Christianity is a blight on our collective understanding of nature, it holds us back by offering gods where we need experimentation. The founders knew that when they were writing that shit up. Trust me Secular is good, you don't want to live in a Christian only land, which is i'm sure what most Christians are referring to when they say these things. That was never the goal. You are just as free to believe in whatever fairy tale you want, you just don't have a right to force it on the rest of us. For that I am thankful.
As for what the bible says, well it says a lot... it contradicts itself constantly, and is one of the most horrible books ever written based on very archaic, evil bloody ideals. Morality obviously supersedes the bible. If it didn't, people would be selling their daughters to sexual slavery, and stoning non-believers to death, which are things the bible says are OK. Of course as a social species our morality comes from a deeper place than some musty tome written by a bunch of gay hating misogynists 1400 years ago. Question, as gay guy, how can you square with all the hatred of you from your own religious cult?
Oh also, going back to what we were founded on:
Slavery and genocide. <--- typical Christian principles
As uncomfortable as that is, its a fact.
I'm seeing pantheistic views in you, though I'm not calling you a pantheist.