Do you intimidate or "play" people, or use power dynamics techniques?

LucyJr

LucyJr

Well-known member
MBTI
INFJ
Just curious how these kind of things go along with INFJs.
We are usually described as "not competitive". Does that mean we are clean on manipulation tactics?
I know people who are very carefull at those kind of things, they use a lot of intimidation and manipulation tactics when they meet with people, to leave a certain kind of impression. Its a ongoing struggle for supremacy, wether would be smartness, social position, power and so on.
So, how about us?
 
intimidate? Please. So declasse.

For me, I'll be honest; I can be very very aware of power dynamics and personality dynamics between people, within group, etc.
That is perfectly within our ability as INFJs-- we are insightful about other people, their personality, their selves.

And to -not- use it to my own advantage requires conscious effort.
It rarely is blatant. Think sweet talking, outright lies against evidence, pulling a double face, when I talk about blatancy. Think drama or gossip.

No, it's not wearing a mask, more like, wearing a makeup-- or not wearing one, depending on the situation.

And never let it be said that perfect honesty or rawness can't be manipulative.

But supremacy is a very.....limited, and often times rather selfish reasoning.
Personally speaking, I don't see a lot of INFJs are manipulative for status in itself.
Sometimes it's something as basic as self preservation; evasion, socially. How to not let others burden you, and you, others.
Sometimes it's something more fucked up, like a twisted form of martyr complex, manipulating others in hopes of 'making them better'.
Sometimes it's simply for something. For instance, you want something and that something is directly related to status or influence.
Sometimes, though, it's pure need for status, approval, influence. Or just a plain feeling of control or supremacy or believing that you can get hold of SOMETHING in your life.
 
Well, I am not an INFJ, but I definitely try and intimidate folks to get to something if I feel it's nesscarry. Though, not in the way you'd think about it. I use undercurrents to do it. I have the ability to a manipulative SOB, and I use it. It's very much for an "if the ends justify the means type deal", and "what they don't know won't hurt them". But by and large I have no problem doing it, and in the past I have done it on large scale. It's not a good thing to do though, and I recognize it so I try and limit it. I often get put in leadership positions with little effort on my end and that allows me to work the system as I see fit. This all sounds terribly negative, but I can assure you I never do it for malicious purposes. It's either for the benefit of everyone, to push out problems (whether they are things or people), or if I need to deal with an internal problem.
 
I had tried to manipulate people growing up in my teen years as I had seen it done by a woman I was infatuated with who also happened to be the definition of a psychopath, but when I tried it ate me up inside. It's not a nice thing to do, lie to people, and even if you go about claiming it will make them better it just doesn't make sense. Why would you have to lie to someone to make them better? It's selfish, and shitty and crazy and people shouldn't do it. That being said I don't do it anymore. Shortly after I did I just couldn't bring myself to do it again.

Ask for competition, I'm not competitive, I can't be. People get mad at me when I win, and they get more mad when I lose. Some idea about I should feel bad for losing. I still don't get it. I don't like competition for that reason though, people always feel bad in the end regardless of the outcome from what I've noticed.

I do however use certain things I have learned that make people feel good or trusting when I meet someone or have been friends with someone for a long time and just recently started hanging out again. I'll hug people when I meet up with them, as it allows them to trust me and vise-versa. I've noticed it calms everything down, and if the hug doesn't happen in cases where it has never happened things are stressed. So I'll use those kinds of techniques.

I don't know if those traits in the negative would go hand in hand with any INFJ. I'd think that we need to be nice people else it eats us up inside because we recognize so quickly that what we're doing is shitty. I think you'd have to have something wrong with your sense of empathy and sympathy to do those kinds of things to people, and INFJ's from what I understand have a very prominent ability for empathy and sympathy.
 
Come on, we are all human...It could be temptation to see how things are played without trying to be a playmaker from time to time.
Ni and Fe - oooo, they have dark side of Force....
But, I am proud to say that I never use it to do bad things on purpouse.
 
I think the sympathy and empathy mentioned are often the last lines of defense that we have within our consciousness, in this case.

I know how shitty it feels to be manipulated, used, intimidated; so I won't, despite how beneficial it will be.
 
I don't usually manipulate other people, but I'm very good at recognizing when other people are being so, and when I do I upset their plans. The look on their faces is priceless when they realize I won't be controlled (I have very narcissistic family members. They hate me now, but at least they're cautious around me, which suites me fine). When I see people trying to control others or be the "powerful" person in the room, I get pretty ticked off.
 
Even not using power play techniques is using power play techniques. People use whatever is relevant for the situation.
 
It is a power play to use cleavage?

just kidding! ha ha...or am I?
 
invisible said:
its all too complicated. id rather do things for myself.
Click to expand...

What you're saying is that you are outside the system? Enneagram 5's are ussually outside the system.
 
Hard said:
Well, I am not an INFJ, but I definitely try and intimidate folks to get to something if I feel it's nesscarry. Though, not in the way you'd think about it. I use undercurrents to do it. I have the ability to a manipulative SOB, and I use it. It's very much for an "if the ends justify the means type deal", and "what they don't know won't hurt them". But by and large I have no problem doing it, and in the past I have done it on large scale. It's not a good thing to do though, and I recognize it so I try and limit it. I often get put in leadership positions with little effort on my end and that allows me to work the system as I see fit. This all sounds terribly negative, but I can assure you I never do it for malicious purposes. It's either for the benefit of everyone, to push out problems (whether they are things or people), or if I need to deal with an internal problem.
Click to expand...
Interesting... How do you feel/think when other people play this on you?

Edit:
Re-reading this I realised it may come as offensive, but is really a honest question :D
 
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DonTaushMe said:
I had tried to manipulate people growing up in my teen years as I had seen it done by a woman I was infatuated with who also happened to be the definition of a psychopath, but when I tried it ate me up inside. It's not a nice thing to do, lie to people, and even if you go about claiming it will make them better it just doesn't make sense. Why would you have to lie to someone to make them better? It's selfish, and shitty and crazy and people shouldn't do it. That being said I don't do it anymore. Shortly after I did I just couldn't bring myself to do it again.

Ask for competition, I'm not competitive, I can't be. People get mad at me when I win, and they get more mad when I lose. Some idea about I should feel bad for losing. I still don't get it. I don't like competition for that reason though, people always feel bad in the end regardless of the outcome from what I've noticed.

I do however use certain things I have learned that make people feel good or trusting when I meet someone or have been friends with someone for a long time and just recently started hanging out again. I'll hug people when I meet up with them, as it allows them to trust me and vise-versa. I've noticed it calms everything down, and if the hug doesn't happen in cases where it has never happened things are stressed. So I'll use those kinds of techniques.

I don't know if those traits in the negative would go hand in hand with any INFJ. I'd think that we need to be nice people else it eats us up inside because we recognize so quickly that what we're doing is shitty. I think you'd have to have something wrong with your sense of empathy and sympathy to do those kinds of things to people, and INFJ's from what I understand have a very prominent ability for empathy and sympathy.
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I'll just say honestly this. I met INFJs who are not little angels at all. There are INFJs, honestly, that can and will destroy your life if you're not carefull with them. That's why I don't agree that a certain MBTI or Socionics type can be inherently better or worse. It depends on the individual.
 
Trifoilum said:
I think the sympathy and empathy mentioned are often the last lines of defense that we have within our consciousness, in this case.

I know how shitty it feels to be manipulated, used, intimidated; so I won't, despite how beneficial it will be.
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But how sympathy and empathy is a line of defence for ourselfs? Empathy is by its very nature altruistic, not toward us. So how can empathy be a line of defence? Moreover, what if I empathise with a criminal, or with Hitler?
 
Akiko said:
I don't usually manipulate other people, but I'm very good at recognizing when other people are being so, and when I do I upset their plans. The look on their faces is priceless when they realize I won't be controlled (I have very narcissistic family members. They hate me now, but at least they're cautious around me, which suites me fine). When I see people trying to control others or be the "powerful" person in the room, I get pretty ticked off.
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Yes, I think INFJs can naturally with ease see the power dynamics within a group. But what some experts on this field say is that these power dynamics happens naturally, and are a good thing. They say people need and have to be manipulated and lead. What do you think about this?
 
the said:
Even not using power play techniques is using power play techniques. People use whatever is relevant for the situation.
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Apparently not using power yet in the same time using it is a contradiction. Could you explain this, perhaps with a example?
 
LucyJr said:
Yes, I think INFJs can naturally with ease see the power dynamics within a group. But what some experts on this field say is that these power dynamics happens naturally, and are a good thing. They say people need and have to be manipulated and lead. What do you think about this?
Click to expand...

To some extent, that may be true; if a group is heading in the wrong direction it may be beneficial for someone to take the lead and manipulate them onto a better path. However, in my experience, most manipulators do what they do for selfish reasons. For example, my aunt has many characteristics of obsessive-compulsive personality disorder. She feels the need to control everything and everyone around her with no consideration for other people's needs or emotions. She's torn her immediate family apart with her need for control. She cannot stand for anyone to have a different opinion from her, so she blatantly manipulates others (or tries to) to fit her vision of what's "right". That kind of manipulation, I take issue with.

So in some cases, manipulation may be a good thing. But I don't think manipulating others for one's own selfish reasons, thus infringing on other's rights to their own opinions or actions, is ever good.
 
Akiko said:
To some extent, that may be true; if a group is heading in the wrong direction it may be beneficial for someone to take the lead and manipulate them onto a better path. However, in my experience, most manipulators do what they do for selfish reasons. For example, my aunt has many characteristics of obsessive-compulsive personality disorder. She feels the need to control everything and everyone around her with no consideration for other people's needs or emotions. She's torn her immediate family apart with her need for control. She cannot stand for anyone to have a different opinion from her, so she blatantly manipulates others (or tries to) to fit her vision of what's "right". That kind of manipulation, I take issue with.

So in some cases, manipulation may be a good thing. But I don't think manipulating others for one's own selfish reasons, thus infringing on other's rights to their own opinions or actions, is ever good.
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Although I agree with what you said, some may argue that EVERYTHINK what we do we do for selfish reasons, so therefore there is no a good and a bad kind of manipulation, thus meaning those who manipulate don't do anything wrong really. How do you think about that?
 
LucyJr said:
Although I agree with what you said, some may argue that EVERYTHINK what we do we do for selfish reasons, so therefore there is no a good and a bad kind of manipulation, thus meaning those who manipulate don't do anything wrong really. How do you think about that?
Click to expand...

Wow, that goes into some deep territory! Haha. I think it comes down to whether right and wrong are objective and universal or subjective and personal. If morality is subjective, then there is no right and wrong; thus no kind of manipulation can be called right or wrong. Myself, I believe morality is absolute, or objective, so I would disagree with the experts who say manipulation is always not wrong...if that makes any sense.... I can see this becoming a messy debate, so I'll just say that this is my opinion in a nutshell, and I hope it makes sense. ^^
 
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