Ethical to mock the anti vax?

[aeon]

I should be taxed because I do not want to take a non-approved Emergency Use Authorization concoction that is still in test phase?

If that’s the reason you are avoiding getting the jabs, you can now go get fully vaxxed, i.e., 3 rounds of mRNA. Moderna has full FDA approval and no longer has emergency use status.

To Your Health and Well-Being,
Ian

 

[aeon]

Why would anyone take something that is termed a bioweapon (see below)? Sure seems to act like a bioweapon.

And what expertise, schooling, accreditation, and experience in bioweapon manufacturing, virology, and immunology do you have that gives cause for such a sense?

Wondering,
Ian

 

[aeon]

I just received mail notification from my insurance company that if COVID-related expenses are submitted after 1st March 2022 and the patient is not fully vaxxed, or in the process of getting vaxxed, the amount covered by the company will be...

0%...the patient will be on the hook for all of it.

The kind of medical costs that accrue with a COVID ICU stay are such that it would be more financially prudent to just die. Morbid, I know, but few would be able to pay a seven-figure bill.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[Enso]

I just received mail notification from my insurance company that if COVID-related expenses are submitted after 1st March 2022 and the patient is not fully vaxxed, or in the process of getting vaxxed, the amount covered by the company will be...

0%...the patient will be on the hook for all of it.

The kind of medical costs that accrue with a COVID ICU stay are such that it would be more financially prudent to just die. Morbid, I know, but few would be able to pay a seven-figure bill.

Cheers,
Ian

This seems more like a social engineering thing than a health issue. I'd be more concerned about the concentration of power. I mean, perhaps people would have gotten the vaccine without being forced into it, it's not that much of a crazy idea. So my issue is not with the actual vaccine it's with constantly having institutions pushing their shit on people. And please don't put me in the "anti-vax" group for that opinion, I even have a booster.

Anyway, everyone has an opinion and mine's not the only one. This thread is not about that it's about mocking people, so I guess this is a bit off-topic. Mods feel free to delete.

 

[acd]

I just received mail notification from my insurance company that if COVID-related expenses are submitted after 1st March 2022 and the patient is not fully vaxxed, or in the process of getting vaxxed, the amount covered by the company will be...

0%...the patient will be on the hook for all of it.

The kind of medical costs that accrue with a COVID ICU stay are such that it would be more financially prudent to just die. Morbid, I know, but few would be able to pay a seven-figure bill.

Cheers,
Ian

Good.

Unless someone has a legit medical reason for an exemption, they should be on the hook for costs of care for something that could have been prevented. Health insurers should be able to deny claims at this point for unvaccinated without a legit medical exemption.

If that sounds cold, I have people in my family who died from covid vaccine and misinformation, friends who spent time in the ICU with covid (before they could be vaccinated) and family working on the COVID unit in a hospital right now, totally overwhelmed and burnt out (and they aren't treating vaccinated patients!). There are people struggling to get care due to covid.

 

[acd]

This seems more like a social engineering thing than a health issue. I'd be more concerned about the concentration of power. I mean, perhaps people would have gotten the vaccine without being forced into it, it's not that much of a crazy idea. So my issue is not with the actual vaccine it's with constantly having institutions pushing their shit on people. And please don't put me in the "anti-vax" group for that opinion, I even have a booster.

Anyway this thread is not about that it's about mocking people, so I guess this is a bit off-topic. Mods feel free to delete.

It's health insurance companies finally finding a way off the hook for astronomical costs that could have been avoided. It's a consequence of having a private healthcare system. They're within their right to deny claims. They deny claims for things all the time. They are thinking the government just can't force them to cover covid care anymore now that a vaccine has been out.

 

[Enso]

It's health insurance companies finally finding a way off the hook for astronomical costs that could have been avoided. It's a consequence of having a private healthcare system. They're within their right to deny claims. They deny claims for things all the time. They are thinking the government just can't force them to cover covid care anymore now that a vaccine has been out.

I wouldn't rule out never-ending boosters.

 

[acd]

I wouldn't rule out never-ending boosters.

I would.

 

[aeon]

This seems more like a social engineering thing than a health issue.

Nah, ain’t nobody got time for that. That’s just business, plain and simple. Moolah. Beans. Not social, financial. Accountant- and lawyer-driven. And stockholders.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[aeon]

If that sounds cold

Sometimes Rationality is like that. But it’s Logic’s sharp edge that is so good at felling the trees called Magical Thinking, Propaganda, and Denial, and let me tell you, when those things burn, you’ve got enough warmth to see you through hard times.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[milo]

I wouldn't rule out never-ending boosters.

I wouldn't either. That's basically what the yearly flu vaccine is. In that way I think it'll become voluntary.

 

[aeon]

To answer the topic question directly...

I’m an American. I know what ethics are, but am clueless (and unwilling due to cultural indoctrination) to put them into practice.

My favorite “ouch” from Reddit: the number of COVID deaths is seriously underreported because when an unvaxxed individual dies from the virus, on the death certificate the cause of death is listed as “end-stage terminal stupidity.”

Somebody get a waaaahmbulance, and head straight to The Burn Unit.

Zing!,
Ian

 

[o2b]

If that’s the reason you are avoiding getting the jabs, you can now go get fully vaxxed, i.e., 3 rounds of mRNA. Moderna has full FDA approval and no longer has emergency use status.

To Your Health and Well-Being,
Ian

A reason.

 

[o2b]

And what expertise, schooling, accreditation, and experience in bioweapon manufacturing, virology, and immunology do you have that gives cause for such a sense?

Wondering,
Ian

I wonder why it is your list is incomplete. I am solid in mathematics and statistics. I have gone over VAERS information, Medicare database information, and military database information. I am also very much an autodidactic. As one example, there is a 10x increase in military folks experiencing neurological conditions after the jabs were introduced as a ratio to the 5 year average just previous. I think I can interpret that kind of result.

I am curious. Does basic rational thought find valid concern with such a metric or is ought it be considered irrelevant should a person, for example, lack accreditation in bioweapon manufacturing? For another example, the Medicare database shows that 48,465 Medicare patients died within 14 days of getting a jab. Do I need accreditation before my rational mind can deduce the hypothesis the synthetically created spike protein is a bioweapon? Or the header in the email I provided (to Fauci) in which the sender labeled it a bioweapon?

I am also able to tie in human behavior, such as censorship of vital information. One compelling example is Pfizer asking for its test findings to be withheld from the public for 75 years. Does that concern you?

I am also able to digest patent information which by the way, demonstrably proves racketeering among NIAID, NIH, CDC, Pfizer, Moderna, and more with respect to the jab and other covid-related considerations. Another patent trail proves use of graphene oxide in the jabs (with the exception of at least the placebos) with the specified purpose of folks thereby being connected to the internet of things for the purpose of control.

If you would like to see the proof, I would be more than happy to provide it.

I am unable to see a deduction that should your criteria for competent assessment for giving cause, effectively the vast bulk of humanity should forbid itself from the idea that such a conclusion can be reached.

What a terrifying world your sensibilities require. We all must defer to the experts, even should our lives possibly be at stake.

 

[o2b]

Sometimes Rationality is like that. But it’s Logic’s sharp edge that is so good at felling the trees called Magical Thinking, Propaganda, and Denial, and let me tell you, when those things burn, you’ve got enough warmth to see you through hard times.

Cheers,
Ian

A pity your lack of effective rationality forbids you from having a clue (in this matter). Magical thinking, indeed.

 

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[aeon]

I wonder why it is your list is incomplete.

Because I was writing off the cuff, and what was presented was enough to make the point...rhetorical, yet you mistakenly answered it as if it was not. No problem though.

As one example, there is a 10x increase in military folks experiencing neurological conditions after the jabs were introduced as a ratio to the 5 year average just previous. I think I can interpret that kind of result.

10× doesn’t give you anything you can interpret as it regards a population or cohort without the actual headcount.

Does basic rational thought find valid concern with such a metric or is ought it be considered irrelevant should a person, for example, lack accreditation in bioweapon manufacturing?

Rational thought would find absolutely nothing with the metric as given. Anything beyond would be...irrational.

You also have to consider changes over the time period in the test and assessment methodology. Rises in seemingly-non-related sequelae may indicate incomparable year-to-years results.

Has the methodology been documented and audited?

For another example, the Medicare database shows that 48,465 Medicare patients died within 14 days of getting a jab. Do I need accreditation before my rational mind can deduce the hypothesis the synthetically created spike protein is a bioweapon?

No, you can deduce anything you like, of course. Deducing that as a layperson, however, may make some individuals question your credibility, ability to reason, tendency toward paranoia, conspiratorial thinking style, and so on.

When I have reposted your material, verbatim, and assertions, verbatim, elsewhere on the internet, (Reddit mainly), so others could consider what you have provided, the replies were varied, but tended toward those conclusions.

Also, without knowing typical Medicare deaths in a time period, the number doesn’t have any context. Using it as such was considered scaremongering by the majority on Reddit..

Or the header in the email I provided (to Fauci) in which the sender labeled it a bioweapon?

Given later analyses from sources which have claimed and provided evidence that this assertion to be false, it would be prudent to consider other interpretations.

I am also able to tie in human behavior, such as censorship of vital information. One compelling example is Pfizer asking for its test findings to be withheld from the public for 75 years. Does that concern you?

Concern in the “quite interesting” way? Absolutely. In the “worried” way? Not in the least, because I tend not to worry about that which I cannot control.

Also, Occam’s Razor is quite helpful here.

I am also able to digest patent information which by the way, demonstrably proves racketeering among NIAID, NIH, CDC, Pfizer, Moderna, and more with respect to the jab and other covid-related considerations.

That is of interest. Please lay that out, step-by-step, so a normative layperson could easily understand your sources, thought process, and conclusions.

Once done, I’ll repost a couple of places, verbatim, and we’ll see what comes back. Wisdom of the crowd, dontcha know.

Another patent trail proves use of graphene oxide in the jabs (with the exception of at least the placebos) with the specified purpose of folks thereby being connected to the internet of things for the purpose of control.

Go to Google and search this: graphene oxide in vaccines

I’m open to hearing you. Again, provide sources, your reasoning, your conclusions, all step by step, and it will be interesting to see what comes back.

Said Google search would tend to suggest this view is somewhere between not consistent with the science and bats in the belfry dafuq.

If you would like to see the proof, I would be more than happy to provide it.

That’s fantastic. Please do.

I am unable to see a deduction that should your criteria for competent assessment for giving cause, effectively the vast bulk of humanity should forbid itself from the idea that such a conclusion can be reached.

Fair enough.

What a terrifying world your sensibilities require. We all must defer to the experts, even should our lives possibly be at stake.

You mustn’t do anything. It’s just that all other things being equal, when one is faced with a problem with which one has little or no knowledge or functional understanding, it would behoove one to find someone with more knowledge and functional understanding if one’s aim is to rectify the problem at hand. The people with the most knowledge and functional understanding are often called experts (in their field).

It would behoove one especially if one’s life may be at stake.

If you wish to do otherwise, go ahead. No musts or mustn’ts from me. Just ones for me. You do what you like.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[o2b]

^
Hey @aeon -

I think I better respond in the Dorothy topic. Though I cannot presently and likely for a while.

Thanks.

 

[Nixie]

I think the ROOT issue for me, comes about because it is based on something my gut says is "wrong".

The ignorance to completely disregard that the vaccination makes a new illness less life threatening, and is some kind of "Mark of the Beast" or somehow pollutes your DNA so you aren't a "pureblood" is atrociously stupid, it boggles the mind.

As @acd has pointed out, the frustration is unimaginable and it does bring out this desire to Point The Finger and say, "WTF Stupid?"

The human cost of families losing mothers and fathers with children at home. The caregivers and morgue personnel who have to deal with swollen disfigured bodies. The caregivers who have to watch patients gasp for breath, suffocating as their anxious families hover.

I think that some want it to be like Outbreak. The "illness" can't be a pandemic or "that serious" if people aren't just dropping dead in the streets after 3 days of being sick.

No, the reality is far harsher. COVID patients develop pneumonia. Their oxygen saturation levels drop because the COVID starts damaging the lungs. I understand the lungs start to "harden" , making it hard to breathe. Apparently this is bad and people start hearing about lung transplant

To expand the lungs, the patients are put on their stomach because it puts less pressure on the lungs to expand. Being on the stomach with a face mask on, starts making your face swell and then you start getting bed sores and pressure sores on your forehead and face from laying on your face for 16 hours.

Then, for reasons I don't know, the body starts developing blood clots. The patient has to go on blood thinners but even then, a clot can cause death and /or a limb to have to be amputated.

All while this is going on, because they have pneumonia, some start to develop secondary infections and the doctors have to figure out where and try and stop it. Or the patients oxygen drops so dangerously low that the doctors say there is brain damage. Or the chest is infected and chest tubes have to be placed to relieve pressure

I haven't even mentioned ECMO or intubation where artificial machines take over breathing for you because your body is so tired, it cannot breathe and get enough oxygen.

Of course, you are sedated and put into a coma because being intubated causes panic and you fight the machines. Most doctors seem to agree, that you are AWARE of what's going on, YOU are still inside there.

Nevermind if the effort and medicine used to treat you don't cause your kidneys to shut down, then you need dialysis. There is also the chance you can stroke out while under sedation and then your family has to wait for the doctors to "try and wake you up" or if you are brain dead.

It seems though, most get to experience at least 2 weeks of this. Sometimes, when they are younger, they can last one more two months like this.

I am not a doctor. I learned all this reading the Herman Cain Award thread. Not from things posted by podcasters or news but from the heartbreaking updates made by the family members of the unvaxxed

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]