Ethical to mock the anti vax?

[slant]

The entire situation is just sad. Public health becoming political. I wonder what would have happened during the polio vaccine program...we would still be fighting deadly strains of polio..

Part of this is probably the influence of the internet and the government no longer being able to control information as easily. During the Spanish flu several countries including the uk and us censored the press to prevent news of the pandemic getting too much exposure especially the fact that we were at war and that it was killing soldiers. They didn't want the country's morale to suffer and for there to be mass panic. Unless a country goes the route of China it's a lot harder to suppress information in the digital era and that's probably a big difference

 

[Kgal]

"counting coup" applies to successfully touching an enemy in honorable battle without killing them

It is gross to compare dying from a preventable disease to honorable Native American tradition
Really gross to me

They are dying, so they failed to "count coup" they chose a slow suicide by suffocation

Thanks for correcting me on the subject.

 

[FiftySeven]

I do not know if this is true but it is often repeated in the main stream media that a large percentage of misinformation about covid-19 and the various treatments and prophylactics around it are generated by a very few number of individuals.
Another aspect of the informational space that the pandemic occupies is the state sponsored motivations of some of the actors. Obviously the US gov has an agenda and it is either nefarious or not depending on who you listen too.
It would also seem that states that are adversarial to the US are also motivated in promoting as much dissension as possible.
And of course many propagators of information, whether it is valid or invalid, are motivated by self promotion.

A good chunk of the folks who involve themselves in the ongoing propagation of the various positions feel they are doing their duty, civic, ethical and or religious, in engaging in the discussions and arguments.

There are loads of examples of Libertarians who are mocking those who wear masks as being cowardly. I am related to several of them. And they are not particularly gentle in the ferocity of their machisto-istic banter. Many of them become verbally abusive and threatening within the first few volleys of rhetorical engagement with anyone who question their judgement or tone, and this I have seen among people who have known each other for decades.

ps this is my "devil" post

 

[Work]

... There is more and more evidence coming out that it is the people who have severely compromised immunity while walking arounmd "appearing" to be healthy that suffer the most with this virus.

because they are vulnerable to the virus or to the vaccine?

The fear mongering and partial truths and many omissions of the truth plus SEVERE censorship of alternatives .is what made me choose to not play along with the Let's Get Vaccinated Shaming Game.

You saying that this is primarily done by mainstream public health officials...and what exactly are you not playing along with...shaming those who do not vaccinate?

This whole business of fear mongering promoted by governments backed by big pharma is a travesty on the American People and shows a complete lack of integrity. .

And the anti vaxx folks are not doing this....?

 

[Kgal]

because they are vulnerable to the virus or to the vaccine?

Both of course because the vaccine contains a part of the virus.
But mostly they are vulnerable to the virus in the first place. In essence the majority of so called healthy americans are walking around with hidden comorbid issues all related to a main metabolical disease commonly called Pre Diabetes.

I was not against other people getting the vaccine.
I didn't understand why they trusted it....but that was their decision to make...not mine.
I have however been against the mandates...and the shaming that went along with that kind of thinking.

It was always the fear mongering I was steadfastly against....and I saw it on ANY side you choose to look at that was allowed to be published and remain published in the public purview.

It broke my heart to witness the pain and suffering all of the people have gone through over this Crisis Event.

 

[SlowUpTake]

Both of course because the vaccine contains a part of the virus.....

em...this is not true, not that it matters.

mRNA vaccines use mRNA created in a laboratory to teach our cells how to make a protein—or even just a piece of a protein—that triggers an immune response inside our bodies. That immune response, which produces antibodies, is what protects us from getting infected if the real virus enters our bodies

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html

You don't want to get vaccinated, fine. Shame, however, is a highly useful and proven method of getting populations to behave in what is considered acceptable ways.
So what is "acceptable " and what is "considered" in this context. Certainly we postmodernists will look scornfully at any attempt to defer to a higher authority but isn't that simply throwing away the good because it may be contaminated with the bad?
Simply tossing in labels like "Big Pharma" and The Government" does not entirely negate substantial numerical evidence that large percentages of the population that have taken a risk and became vaccinated are saving the healthcare system billions of dollars and relieving thousands of healthcare workers from the burden of caring for them when they might have otherwise fallen gravely ill.
And should not those members of society who have taken that risk as a civic duty not hold their fellows who refuse to do so (as an expression of their individual liberty) hold those members in a form of contempt?

If your going to fart in public you will suffer the consequences .

 

[slant]

em...this is not true, not that it matters.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html

You don't want to get vaccinated, fine. Shame, however, is a highly useful and proven method of getting populations to behave in what is considered acceptable ways.
So what is "acceptable " and what is "considered" in this context. Certainly we postmodernists will look scornfully at any attempt to defer to a higher authority but isn't that simply throwing away the good because it may be contaminated with the bad?
Simply tossing in labels like "Big Pharma" and The Government" does not entirely negate substantial numerical evidence that large percentages of the population that have taken a risk and became vaccinated are saving the healthcare system billions of dollars and relieving thousands of healthcare workers from the burden of caring for them when they might have otherwise fallen gravely ill.
And should not those members of society who have taken that risk as a civic duty not hold their fellows who refuse to do so (as an expression of their individual liberty) hold those members in a form of contempt?

If your going to fart in public you will suffer the consequences .

I would love to see some scientific psychology papers showing the effectiveness in long term change of shame on a societal level vs people making decisions because it aligns with their values and they want to make these decisions.

I was always under the impression that people deciding what to do based on societal shame does not equal long term change. I could be wrong.

 

[acd]

This thread got me curious so I went on the subreddit last night and came across this person saying they were convinced by their sister showing them the subreddit:

https://i.redd.it/dwjopn554we81.jpg

https://reddit.com/r/HermanCainAwar...took_a_long_while_but_showing_my_sister_this/


I'm not sure how effective shame is. I'm not sure shame was the influencer in this case.

I think it's more meant to show people the harsh reality of what can happen. One day you're shit posting about vaccines and the Plandemic the next your family is begging for prayers and setting up a Go Fund Me for funeral costs.
Again. Reality is harsh.

 

[FiftySeven]

I would love to see some scientific psychology papers showing the effectiveness in long term change of shame on a societal level vs people making decisions because it aligns with their values and they want to make these decisions.

I was always under the impression that people deciding what to do based on societal shame does not equal long term change. I could be wrong.

shame on you!

 

[slant]

shame on you!

You're right I've changed my mind. I was wrong.

 

[FiftySeven]

so glad we didn't have to go otk

 

[slant]

This thread got me curious so I went on the subreddit last night and came across this person saying they were convinced by their sister showing them the subreddit:

https://i.redd.it/dwjopn554we81.jpg

I'm not sure how effective shame is. I'm not sure shame was the influencer in this case.

I think it's more meant to show people the harsh reality of what can happen. One day you're shit posting about vaccines and the Plandemic the next your family is begging for prayers and setting up a Go Fund Me for funeral costs.
Again. Reality is harsh.

And on this note- I don't think this Reddit should be shut down. People have a right to free speech and unpleasant as some things are, whether you feel it's right or wrong, they are allowed to say it.

Probably the only limitation is if it gets into defamation territory and even then it would be settled in court.

As much as I dislike the concept of the subreddit the solution for me is easy: just don't look at it. It impacts me in 0 ways.

 

[slant]

The question of whether I think something is right or wrong or moral is 100% separate from whether I think it should be allowed to be discussed. I don't have to agree with all discussion, and I'm not worried that this is going to unduly influence people to take wrong actions.

 

[slant]

At this point @acd has swayed me pretty good on this. I definitely can see the angle that this is an emotional release for people. It's probably not ethical in my opinion but at the same time, if you don't like it, don't visit the Reddit. Nobody is forcing anybody to read it. People have the right to express their frustrations and thoughts. I like looking at it from the angle that acd suggested because it can be seen as a mean spirited thing but there are reasons why people sometimes have strong reactions and communicate in ways that aren't ideal.

 

[Wyote]

I'm not worried that this is going to unduly influence people to take wrong actions.

why not

 

[slant]

why not

People are responsible for their own actions. I don't think we should blame information on the internet/"well people on Reddit agree with me!!"for actions that happen in person. Basically the same reason the ACLU defended the right for the kkk to be able to place handbills on people's cars advertising their ideas. Freedom of speech.

Obviously if people start threatening to kill people and inciting violence that's actually a legal crime- but people should be put on trial and be given due process for that.

 

[Wyote]

People are responsible for their own actions. I don't think we should blame information on the internet/"well people on Reddit agree with me!!"for actions that happen in person. Basically the same reason the ACLU defended the right for the kkk to be able to place handbills on people's cars advertising their ideas. Freedom of speech.

Obviously if people start threatening to kill people and inciting violence that's actually a legal crime- but people should be put on trial and be given due process for that.

What do you think about people getting fired/de-platformed over their internet oPiNiOnS

 

[slant]

What do you think about people getting fired/de-platformed over their internet oPiNiOnS

It's legal but I think it's ethically wrong. Not really a way to legally prevent this from happening though. Basically just work for a company that's cool I guess

 

[slant]

What do you think about people getting fired/de-platformed over their internet oPiNiOnS

GOVERNMENT institutions doing this on the other hand are on thin ice... There are probably legal arguments that make government agencies less able to do this. Depends

 

[Wyote]

Basically just work for a company that's cool I guess

GOVERNMENT institutions doing this on the other hand are on thin ice

Government was never cool anyway. SUPPORT COOL COMPANIES.