How do you feel about cat calling?

@muir

It's not set in stone, it is set in habit and tradition which is often much harder than stone.

nonsense you just agreed that things are changing!

You just said the nuclear family is gone and you used the word 'evolve'

So things are changing and are not set in stone

So fine lets sit down and you and me can make a new equillibirum for society right here on the infj forums....

so you are coming here as the delegate from feminism inc and i'm representing men

Ok so you are putting forward a case for the sexualisation of society where women are empowered by sexually objectifying themselves and presenting a video of a hot actress walking through a poor area of new york in a figure hugging and sexy black ensemble and receiving some unwanted attention from males to which she is not responding in anyway as evidence that womenkind are not being permitted to sexualise society without being accosted in the street by men

Ok so you want a sexualised society where women can make heavily sexualised lacivious pop music videos that are then shown to kids in the name of female 'empowerment' but at the same time you want to say that men are dogs and pigs if they then pay attention to the female of the species?

Ok that's fine...as the delegate for men and as their spokesperson i'll grant you your cock-tease charter

I agree on the behalf of all men that we will not approach any women regardeless of how they dress or where they walk and we will let you bombard the kids with sexually graphic content on the media and we even won't mention 'cultural marxism'

But in return we want you to grant us our sexual release charter

Thats right...we want the legalisation of prostitution

You feminists can create a cock tease economy as much as you like, you can strut, you can pout you can thrust your tits out as mch as you like on the streets, on the TV, in the magazines, online etc you can put miley cyrus on every TV channel, you can post hundred foot high wonder bra adverts on billboards in times square but we (men) want prostitution legalised

And if you're gonna fuck up the kids then there's not much men can do about it so....

Also we're happy for marriage to be scrapped because we can't be bothered with the hassle anymore

In fact we'll leave most women alone entirely as we'll be too busy down the whore house

The porn industry can go into the wastebin of history too...that won't be needed anymore as men will be too busy getting the real thing

Sound fair?

Oh and we want hash cafes too

Sex and pot and you feminists can do whatever the fuck you like
 
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I don't see anything wrong with what she is wearing or how she is acting. According to you she is being provocative because she is attractive.

I am 'curvy' and if I wear anything that is fashionable or not granny-like or sac-like you will see my curves, that is just how my body is shaped and I am not ashamed of it or think I should hide it away under a sac. Luckily I don't have to walk in areas like the one in the video so I don't have to deal with the cat-calling but I get noticed and there's nothing I can do about that. Because I happen to be born with the genes to give me a certain type of shape doesn't mean that I am teasing men because I'm walking around in the world and I am not interested in their opinions about my body. I should be allowed to wear jeans and a t-shirt as much as you or anybody else is without being harassed about it. I even wear tight exercise wear when I got to the gym and I do get attention, although all the men are classy enough not to say anything. I guess according to you I should wear baggy sweats instead of comfortable exercise wear or otherwise I'm teasing all the men in the gym. Do you not see what's wrong with that? I don't give a crap what other people have seen in the media that does not give you the right to tell me what I am 'allowed' to wear.

Nope wear what you like i'm just giving you some friendly advice that you might want to be more careful about what you wear if you are walking through some rough neighbourhoods where people are feeling a little bit hard done by
 
nonsense you just agreed that things are changing!

You just said the nuclear family is gone and you used the word 'evolve'

So things are changing and are not set in stone

So fine lets sit down and you and me can make a new equillibirum for society right here on the infj forums....

so you are coming here as the delegate from feminism inc and i'm representing men

Ok so you are putting forward a case for the sexualisation of society where women are empowered by sexually objectifying themselves and presenting a video of a hot actress walking through a poor area of new york in a figure hugging and sexy black ensemble and receiving some unwanted attention from males to which she is not responding in anyway as evidence that womenkind are not being permitted to sexualise society without being accosted in the street by men

Ok so you want a sexualised society where women can make heavily sexualised lacivious pop music videos that are then shown to kids in the name of female 'empowerment' but at the same time you want to say that men are dogs and pigs if they then pay attention to the female of the species?

Ok that's fine...as the delegate for men and as their spokesperson i'll grant you your cock-tease charter

I agree on the behalf of all men that we will not approach any women regardeless of how they dress or where they walk and we will let you bombard the kids with sexually graphic content on the media and we even won't mention 'cultural marxism'

But in return we want you to grant us our sexual release charter

Thats right...we want the legalisation of prostitution

You feminists can create a cock tease economy as much as you like, you cans trut, you can pout you can thrust your tits out as mch as you like on the streets, on the TV, in the magazines, online etc you can put miley cyrus on every TV channel, you can post hundred foot high wonder bra adverts on billboards in times square but we (men) want prostitution legalised

Also we're happy for marriage to be scrapped because we can't be bothered with the hassle anymore

In fact we'll leave most women alone entirely as we'll be too busy down the whore house

The porn industry can go into the wastebin of history too...that won't be needed anymore as men will be too busy getting the real thing

Sound fair?

Oh and we want hash cafes too

I don't want any of that shit. Don't misunderstand me.
 
Anything can be made out to be positive or well intentioned. I don't think it is, though.

I mean you could douse somebody in gasoline and set them on fire and say you're doing them a favor by making sure they won't get body lice.

There are extreme forms of everything.
 
Doesn't matter because you can't control men and I can't control women. I'm a delegate for nobody. If feminists pissed me off I'd turn on them too.

Listen they are turning everyone against each other

men and women....they're being turned into each others enemies

People need to wake up

This stuff is not random

Look at what a set up that video is....it's entrapment

They send a beautiful actress out in a figure hugging black ensemble that is guaranteed to turn heads and they get her to walk through some deprived parts of town and then film the results so that they can then cock a snook at men in general

Did you notice the other females around her weren't getting the attention she was?

How about they address the widespread poverty in the US?

Oh no they don't want to discuss that because that would be an actual solution to the growing social ills that are tearing the fabric of society apart!

I wouldn't be suprised if the usual suspects were behind this video
 
[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]

:m070: What you call "figure hugging black ensemble" is normal clothes to a lot of people.

Also don't forget what I am. Asking me to take sides is a mistake and is likely to produce contrary effects.
 
@muir

:m070: What you call "figure hugging black ensemble" is normal clothes to a lot of people.

Also don't forget what I am. Asking me to take sides is a mistake and is likely to produce contrary effects.

Look at the other women in the video; they're not dressed the same way

In fact in most of the video people are wearing jackets

She's dressed to kill but they've done it in a way in which there is plausible deniability
 
I think that cat calling on the street- whether it is done by/to a man or woman is tacky, disrespectful, boorish, low quality, cheap, unintelligent behaviour. Calling out, harassing, and drawing unwanted attention to people who are simply trying to use a public area is in my opinion abusive and creates an environment where people feel unsafe, uncomfortable, restricted, and seen as a sexual object rather than as a human being. I'm not a very 'sexual' person, and i understand that sex and sexual identity is very important to some people, but i absolutely think that these 'impulses' can be easily managed with some good judgement and respect. Public areas are sacred to the harmony and success of a community, its a place where people should feel comfortable to bring their children and interact with their neighbours. If people want to act on the lowest common denominator, they should go to a strip club, a prostitute, or have a good old fashioned wank before they leave the home. Wanking is free and doesnt have to effect or hurt anyone else.
I understand that comes across as judgemental, but that is what i think when i see people carrying on that way. Its hard for me to not look down on them, or make judgements about them, however temporary those judgements may be. I believe absolutely that this is learned cultural behaviour, and not innate.

I rarely see this sort of thing happen in Australia. Generally speaking, in all the places ive lived here, the men are absolute classy gentleman. Australian men are awesome and respectful, to each other and to women and to strangers. There is a strong 'mateship' culture, and it extends all around. I have a lot of male friends, and generally there isnt a 'weird thing' here about men versus women. People here generally see both sexes as equal, and there is a lot of social mobility. There is also generally a lot of respect for family dynamics in a community, good manners, and trust....people will give up their seat on the bus for someone that is pregnant or elderly, will help elderly people with their groceries, hold doors open for men and women, share taxis, help a stranger...just because its good manners.

I have noticed that cat calling and harassment normally happens here, and i hate to say this really, in low social economic, red neck, high alcohol, broken families, more violent, low employment....and culturaly diverse but stratified areas. Places that are dodgy, bogan (certainly not all bogans though, God bless bogans), and where people watch the news and current affairs shows alot and are obsessed with terrorists and beer.
The only time i have ever been cat called is when it has been accompanied by a racial slur, and only in those social areas that i have mentioned above. Otherwise it has simply never happened.
Australia is a very multicultural community, and normally excellent at being multicultural, but sometimes people immigrate here that have no wish to accept or respect the way of life here. Often they come from countries that are sexually repressed and with low sexual equality, so as a leaned response they look down on Australian women. And there are also pockets of ignorant Australians that feel white australian women are worthy of respect, but women with coloured skin are fair game for tacky and rude behaviour...which is based on racism and feeling disempowered. And of course, sometimes people only know the manners and patterns of interaction that they have been taught. If they live in an area where people carry on in an ignorant fashion, this may become learned acquired behaviour, just trying to fit in with the crowd, get respect from the guys, doing what you accept as normal.

Another thing ive noticed is that low key cat calling (not stalking or harassment) here normally occurs in group situations, people in a group are more likely to call out to another group. If this happens at night in the city's entertainment district, or at the public beach, with lots of observers around, or with a group of friends, i dont think that it is necessarily threatening, athough i still see it as unattractive. Often it is done in a good natured way, and the reciprocating, getting ignored, or being told to fuck off is generally taken in good humour.
Australian men are normally quick to jump in and help a woman if she is clearly getting unwanted attention and harassment. Women are also able to tell a guy to fuck off, normally at no risk to their person.
People will often laugh it off.

I think that this issue should be taken seriously. It can be harmless in some contexts, or even fun for some people. But when it is a way of life, it escalates into harassment and can easliy create a fear and competition driven environment that concludes in violence, the loss of personal freedom, and repressive social controls.

Honestly, isnt this issue simply about respect, courtesy, good manners and common decency? Social grace?

Why do people think this behaviour is appropriate in the first place? What sort of community do they want to live in? What responsibilty do they feel to reject this behavior when they see it, and speak out for other people? How do they feel about their own family dynamic...their mother, sister, daughter, father, brother, son? Do they feel safe and unthreatened? Are they being socially pressured? Are they being bullied? What are their beliefs about people, gender, and sex? What do they think of friendship? Do they have friends of other gender? How do they treat their friends? Do they have access to support, information and resources outside their community bubble? How would they feel if they were the receipient of such behavior? What is reinforcing this behavior? Why have they chosen to act this way rather than in another way? Who are their role models? What are their values and aspirations? How do they want to be treated? What is their environment like? What are their cultural beliefs? How do they pay their bills? How much personal freedom and social mobility is there? What and who do they respect? Is there 'macho' culture? Is there a 'bitch' culture? Are they educated? Are people generally armed and dangerous? Are they watching obnoxious teenybop i'm rich and shiny and ill fucking kill you and youre a dumb worthless slut hip hop videos? ...etc

I dress and act the way i do for my own reasons. I have the freedom to wear and do whatever i want unless it is hurting someone else. I want to continue to live in that kind of society. Regardless of my personal idiosyncracies, i absolutely believe that people should be able to dress the way they want, and not be harassed, and not harass anyone else. So thats yes to people that want to wear a kkk sheet, or nazi tattoos, or a burka, or a french maid costume, wedgie hotpants, pants that hang under a guys ass and flash their crack, or a balaclava, or in t shirts with hateful i want to kill you slogans, or in ridiculous im a emo goth vampire dressed in a trench coat and covered in spikes that keep accidentally stabbing me pissed of as hell because its 30 degress hot and have left a pool of my own ass sweat on this public bench so depressed. Really...whatever...go for gold...shock us, disgust us, blow us away, dress however you want. Its personal freedom to dress how ever, and its others perogative to either ignore, reinforce, or question this behavior. But harassment and abuse is unecessary. Just because you are affected by someone's short skirt or their hateful tattoo doesnt mean that person has harmed you.... 'No one can make you feel inferior without your consent'- Elenor Roosevelt. It is either everyones right to be unthreatened and safe, or it is no ones right. Unsafe and frightened people create an unsafe and dangerous environment. In an evolved, equal, and democratic society, we cant pick and choose who gets to be safe and who doesnt. Its either everyone, or no one. No body deserves to be harassed, abused or harmed for the way they dress. Things like harassment, rape, and violence have nothing to do with people's base nature and uncontrollable urges. People do these things when they are in fear mode and they feel disempowered and then want to derive their sense of power and control by taking it away from someone else. People will see what they want to see to justify their own beliefs and actions, regardless of what is actually in front of them...unless they take responsibility for themselves. People only blame their uncontrollable primitive urges when they dont want to take responsibility for their own behaviour and choices. We are creative beings that are able to think for ourselves, to choose action rather than reaction, if and when we choose to.





I am sincerely sorry for everyone that lives in an environment where they feel unsafe, uncomfortable, and have to deal with violence. We all deserve much better than that
 
Listen they are turning everyone against each other

men and women....they're being turned into each others enemies

People need to wake up

This stuff is not random

Look at what a set up that video is....it's entrapment

They send a beautiful actress out in a figure hugging black ensemble that is guaranteed to turn heads and they get her to walk through some deprived parts of town and then film the results so that they can then cock a snook at men in general

Did you notice the other females around her weren't getting the attention she was?

How about they address the widespread poverty in the US?

Oh no they don't want to discuss that because that would be an actual solution to the growing social ills that are tearing the fabric of society apart!

I wouldn't be suprised if the usual suspects were behind this video

lmao muir just because there are worse things than the thing in question doesn't mean the thing in question isn't a problem, it just means there are a lot of problems.
 
Look at the other women in the video; they're not dressed the same way

In fact in most of the video people are wearing jackets

She's dressed to kill but they've done it in a way in which there is plausible deniability

well she's also smoking hot even in spite of her clothing, that might have something to do with it

i guess she should just carve up her face and get some hip reduction surgery or something like that if she's really interested in not being harassed
 
Look at the other women in the video; they're not dressed the same way

In fact in most of the video people are wearing jackets

She's dressed to kill but they've done it in a way in which there is plausible deniability

False. There's quite a few women wearing clothes like hers. You see several of them within a few seconds at the beginning of the video!

There's also a lot of people wearing t-shirts and even some wife beaters. You're not actually paying attention, you're seeing what you want to see.

Edit:
Also your argument that people are wearing jackets is faulty because it gets too hot for jackets in the summer. So even if what you're saying were true (and it isn't) it would only apply to a portion of the year. What about the rest of the time?
 
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never forget that day

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I notice that I can use the increase in frequency or ratio of black guys cat calling me vs. other guys in order to determine how much weight I've gained. It's exactly like how you count "one mississippi, two mississippi" in between thunder and lightning.
 
I notice that I can use the increase in frequency or ratio of black guys cat calling me vs. other guys in order to determine how much weight I've gained. It's exactly like how you count "one mississippi, two mississippi" in between thunder and lightning.

I could imagine how insecure it must make some girls to be hit on by black guys, and then they guilt trip themselves because it's racist.
 
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