INFJs and Vegetarianism

[Dohavior]

Your arguments all involve the variables SELF and PRESERVATION.

Now how does one distinguish this "SELF" from any other object for if this beast follows one's will is it not similar some what to a hand or foot? No different than a damaged limb that has fallen asleep. At what point do you stop being you?

Now for preservation resources are finite in that if you strike one down another will rise to take its place. I kill a spider and other pestilent or beneficial insects will take its place. Yet if spiders become a problem and grow quite large in size how are they any different than the removal of a tumor?

At most all you have proven is that there are other interactions besides killing. And I agree a rancher is proof of that.

Harvesting your own for anything means you have more selection and things could possibly be fresher. For example you would not want to purchase seafood from a completely landlocked area or fruit that is grown on the other side of the planet with no local producers. Things rot and this example proves that you have little understanding of Preservation no matter what conversation it is a consideration within.

In my experience I only encounter vegetarians among urban settings where the predominant animal is people. In such sheltered man made environments perhaps aberrations such as sociopathy could dwell. Have you read any Charles Dickens lately? Or for that matter read other authors from time periods involving industrialization particularly ones from another culture that you can easily see through the personal bias.

 

[SpecialEdition]

How much do you guys know about protein bioavailability. How much vegan/vegetarian garbage do you have to waste your money on to even get a fraction of the protein and vitamins/minerals that you would get from eating a very natural meat diet? Do you know how many big time vegans and vegetarians have been forced back into eating animal meat because their health went to absolute shit and they realized they NEEDED to eat meat to live a healthy and full life?

I mean come on, let's get real over here.

I think a lot of people choose vegetarianism and veganism because of their feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelings without having any full understanding of what the body needs on a biochemical level. But I guess eating a fuck ton of estrogen raising soy feels nicer than eating a cow and trying to subsist on beans instead of a nice steak full of amazing nutrients feeeeeels nicer than eating an animal. Do you have ANY CLUE what carboydrates do to your mitochondria? Do you know how they affect the brain? Do you know how badly fructose works in the body? I am guessing the answer is a resounding NO.

What's really hilarious to me is all the arguments about treating animals nice. Do you know that you can get grass fed beef? Did you know you can get eggs from chickens that are raised on land and not in little coops? Did you know that there are local farmers that you can buy super high quality, ethical meats from? Did you also know that it tastes better, is more nutrient dense and more cost effective than buying farmed shit?

I would rather kill myself than go vegetarian or vegan. Just knowing what a deterioration would happen in my health both physically and mentally really steers me from making a more rational decision to eat real food.

Here's how it goes:

If you want your cells and organelles to suffer, cut meats and fats out of your diet. If you want increased chances of dementia and alzheimers, do the same. If you want to break the bank finding protein substitutes to spare whatever lean body mass you have while almost certainly not having very good body composition, then cut out all the meat and fat. Basically, if you want to destroy your chances of having a long and healthy and vital life, stop eating meat altogether and live off of sub-par substitutes and eat all those carbs.

Get real.

 

[Elis]

[MENTION=7838]SpecialEdition[/MENTION]

I may not agree with your attitude or point of view, but you raise valid points. I think a lot of people going vegan/vegetarian will just substitute meat with soy without really understanding their diet.

It is important to get full proteins. I'm not a vegan myself so I don't think I have as much of a problem with this, but from what I've come to understand quinoa is a full protein. In a price comparison quinoa is somewhat more expensive than other vegan alternatives, but compared to "better" meats it is still relatively cheap.

 

[SpecialEdition]

[MENTION=7838]SpecialEdition[/MENTION]

I may not agree with your attitude or point of view, but you raise valid points. I think a lot of people going vegan/vegetarian will just substitute meat with soy without really understanding their diet.

It is important to get full proteins. I'm not a vegan myself so I don't think I have as much of a problem with this, but from what I've come to understand quinoa is a full protein. In a price comparison quinoa is somewhat more expensive than other vegan alternatives, but compared to "better" meats it is still relatively cheap.

You mean complete protein in that it contains most of the essential amino acids? But outside of that, there's almost nothing to it.

http://imgur.com/a/Z6nIY#0

If you want to see what the nutrient content of grains vs. meat is, that is a nice little collection.

One would have to eat a fairly significant amount of this stuff to even come close to the nutrients you can get from meat. And if that doesn't seal the deal... The absorption rates are wildly different also... Steak and Whey protein being the quickest absorbing and most bioavailable.

Reading around, there is a lot of false information out there about diet and the advantages vs disadvantages of eating meat. Almost all of the arguments about meat and saturated fat being bad are absolutely, 100% false. It's almost disgusting seeing dietary guidelines. There's a reason why people keep getting fat, getting cancer, diabetes and everything else that comes along with an incorrect diet.

I am very passionate about this kind of subject matter. I don't have a problem if people don't want to eat animals because it hurts their feelings but anyone saying that it actually helps their health over the long term is ignorant.

 

[Elis]

One would have to eat a fairly significant amount of this stuff to even come close to the nutrients you can get from meat. And if that doesn't seal the deal... The absorption rates are wildly different also... Steak and Whey protein being the quickest absorbing and most bioavailable.

Either we eat it, or the animals eat it. It isn't really a 1 to 1 scale due to different absorption rates in animals, as you mentioned, but the meat industry honks up a lot of resources. I guess that is a different discussion.

Reading around, there is a lot of false information out there about diet and the advantages vs disadvantages of eating meat. Almost all of the arguments about meat and saturated fat being bad are absolutely, 100% false. It's almost disgusting seeing dietary guidelines. There's a reason why people keep getting fat, getting cancer, diabetes and everything else that comes along with an incorrect diet.

Personally I think it has more to do with ignorance and bliss, but misinformation certainly isn't helping.

I am very passionate about this kind of subject matter. I don't have a problem if people don't want to eat animals because it hurts their feelings but anyone saying that it actually helps their health over the long term is ignorant.

I'm not really here to argue against that. Thanks for the slides, where did you get the statistics?

 

[the]

Why are plants considered worthy to be eaten? Plants grow, live and die Just like anything else. Who's to say they arent sentient on a level higher than us?

 

[SpecialEdition]

Either we eat it, or the animals eat it. It isn't really a 1 to 1 scale due to different absorption rates in animals, as you mentioned, but the meat industry honks up a lot of resources. I guess that is a different discussion.



Personally I think it has more to do with ignorance and bliss, but misinformation certainly isn't helping.



I'm not really here to argue against that. Thanks for the slides, where did you get the statistics?

My boyfriend compiled that from the information resources he has.

And as for animals eating the veggie proteins vs. us, our digestive systems/enzymes are not made in the same ways as theirs are. They are genetically designed to eat and make use of veggie/grain protein. We are not as well equipped and can absolutely not do it as efficiently as they can.

People think that just because other animals eat all this stuff and have a ton of lean mass and stuff means that we can do it too. Sure, we can try, but we'll never be as efficient at it and we'll never have the same benefits because we are not them.

 

[Elis]

And as for animals eating the veggie proteins vs. us, our digestive systems/enzymes are not made in the same ways as theirs are. They are genetically designed to eat and make use of veggie/grain protein. We are not as well equipped and can absolutely not do it as efficiently as they can.

People think that just because other animals eat all this stuff and have a ton of lean mass and stuff means that we can do it too. Sure, we can try, but we'll never be as efficient at it and we'll never have the same benefits because we are not them.

Yeah, that was what I was referring to as well with absorption rates. I just wanted to address that even if it is far from a 1 to 1 ratio there is a lot of middle-work in means of transportation &c in the meat industry.

 

[SpecialEdition]

Yeah, that was what I was referring to as well with absorption rates. I just wanted to address that even if it is far from a 1 to 1 ratio there is a lot of middle-work in means of transportation &c in the meat industry.

Which is why if the meat industry is a problem for you, you don't support it and buy local.

 

[Elis]

Which is why if the meat industry is a problem for you, you don't support it and buy local.

If you want to. I decided to vegetarian instead

 

[SpecialEdition]

If you want to. I decided to vegetarian instead

Good luck with your health.

 

[HunterO]

How much do you guys know about protein bioavailability. How much vegan/vegetarian garbage do you have to waste your money on to even get a fraction of the protein and vitamins/minerals that you would get from eating a very natural meat diet? Do you know how many big time vegans and vegetarians have been forced back into eating animal meat because their health went to absolute shit and they realized they NEEDED to eat meat to live a healthy and full life?

I mean come on, let's get real over here.

I think a lot of people choose vegetarianism and veganism because of their feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelings without having any full understanding of what the body needs on a biochemical level. But I guess eating a fuck ton of estrogen raising soy feels nicer than eating a cow and trying to subsist on beans instead of a nice steak full of amazing nutrients feeeeeels nicer than eating an animal. Do you have ANY CLUE what carboydrates do to your mitochondria? Do you know how they affect the brain? Do you know how badly fructose works in the body? I am guessing the answer is a resounding NO.

What's really hilarious to me is all the arguments about treating animals nice. Do you know that you can get grass fed beef? Did you know you can get eggs from chickens that are raised on land and not in little coops? Did you know that there are local farmers that you can buy super high quality, ethical meats from? Did you also know that it tastes better, is more nutrient dense and more cost effective than buying farmed shit?

I would rather kill myself than go vegetarian or vegan. Just knowing what a deterioration would happen in my health both physically and mentally really steers me from making a more rational decision to eat real food.

Here's how it goes:

If you want your cells and organelles to suffer, cut meats and fats out of your diet. If you want increased chances of dementia and alzheimers, do the same. If you want to break the bank finding protein substitutes to spare whatever lean body mass you have while almost certainly not having very good body composition, then cut out all the meat and fat. Basically, if you want to destroy your chances of having a long and healthy and vital life, stop eating meat altogether and live off of sub-par substitutes and eat all those carbs.

Get real.

I'm a little surprised at your anger towards vegans/ vegetarians? I've been a vegetarian since I was 13 and I've never had any problems finding protein. The world is full of delicious food that isn't meat. I think people would be surprised how good they start to feel once they cut out meat in their diets.

Also soy has pseudo estrogen effects and its effects are slightly different from estrogen. However, soy increases the cycle of the menses with an actual shorter menses time so that women remain fertile for longer period of time. Whereas the estrogen in birth control pills are synthetic or pig derived, and regulates the menstrual period creating a shorter duration of fertility while releasing more eggs. Many women who've been taking birth control pills will later find they have problems conceiving when older.

Soy has very positive effects on the brain, it is responsible for creation of new neural pathways and for speeding up the healing process in the body. Some cosmetics industry have used soy in their products for this reason. The anti soy media you often see is paid for by the cow milk industries who want everyone to drink their antibiotic hormone cancer causing milk.

Fermented soy has even more positive effects- it has nattokinase which clears debris from arteries and prevents heart disease and clots.

Numerous government research has verified positive effects of soy despite the popular meds saying otherwise. Also much research corroborates that vegans and vegetarians tend to be much healthier and live longer than people who consume a lot of meat.

Also Europeans will not import American meat and dairy products due to their use of antibiotics and hormones. In fact France banned all US meat, milk and cheese products because they found the antibiotics and excess hormones in their food products cause cancer.

 

[SpecialEdition]

I'm a little surprised at your anger towards vegans/ vegetarians? I've been a vegetarian since I was 13 and I've never had any problems finding protein. The world is full of delicious food that isn't meat. I think people would be surprised how good they start to feel once they cut out meat in their diets.

Also soy has pseudo estrogen effects and its effects are slightly different from estrogen. However, soy increases the cycle of the menses with an actual shorter menses time so that women remain fertile for longer period of time. Whereas the estrogen in birth control pills are synthetic or pig derived, and regulates the menstrual period creating a shorter duration of fertility while releasing more eggs. Many women who've been taking birth control pills will later find they have problems conceiving when older.

Soy has very positive effects on the brain, it is responsible for creation of new neural pathways and for speeding up the healing process in the body. Some cosmetics industry have used soy in their products for this reason. The anti soy media you often see is paid for by the cow milk industries who want everyone to drink their antibiotic hormone cancer causing milk.

Fermented soy has even more positive effects- it has nattokinase which clears debris from arteries and prevents heart disease and clots.

Numerous government research has verified positive effects of soy despite the popular meds saying otherwise. Also much research corroborates that vegans and vegetarians tend to be much healthier and live longer than people who consume a lot of meat.

Also Europeans will not import American meat and dairy products due to their use of antibiotics and hormones. In fact France banned all US meat, milk and cheese products because they found the antibiotics and excess hormones in their food products cause cancer.

I don't base anything off of the USA since I am in Canada and our Meat/Dairy industry is very highly protected from outside sources. I don't care who banned what from the USA. Just because people ban the shittiest of the shit from one country that likes to mass produce garbage for the nations doesn't make it all bad.

Preventing heart disease and clots has a lot more to do with not consuming garbage vegetable oils and grains than it does eating soy. People talk about soy like it's this one thing that helps with X, Y and Z. There are way too many dietary and lifestyle factors that go into protecting your heart and your life and more often than not it has nothing to do with red meat or soy alone. It has to do with what you consume along side of it. I would argue that people on a cyclical ketogenic diet fair more positively than just about any other group does. I would imagine that Vegetarians/Vegans live long not because they don't eat mean but because they lead a very different lifestyle than people who live off of vegetable fried, heavily processed, low quality products. There's a difference.

For all the positive effects of soy, it doesn't take much to find all of the detriments as well. Everything has to be taken in context. Soy is just a far less superior product than meat and when I mean meat I don't mean mass produced. I advocate for ethically raised, grass fed beef above all else and that is what I invest my money in. Vegetable proteins are a joke in comparison. Quinoa is probably the closest thing I would tolerate as a secondary source of protein except for the fact that it is so outrageously expensive when you consider the quantity you have to consume to get the benefits.

Do you know what else has positive effects on the brain? Progesterone. Does that mean we should all be consuming the mini-pill to get the effects and regular our menstrual cycles? Sorry, I don't buy it. I'd love to see all the scientific studies that you got this information from though. And I do hope you understand how studies should be read and how the data ought to be interpreted. It would be a shame if you made your decisions based on contrived science, because the soy industry is really big and there's a lot of money behind it.

If you're ever interested to learn how absolutely fucked all the dietary guidelines are and how corrupt the nutritional policies are worldwide, Peter Attia has some truly phenomenal, eye opening lectures on how it all came to be.

Also, I am not hateful towards veganism and vegetarianism, I am hateful to the food industry and the politics and the bad science that allowed things to be in the state that they're in, and I am hateful towards the ignorance the general population has (not really their own fault) that is leading them down the path to very, very poor health and early death.

 

[HunterO]

I don't base anything off of the USA since I am in Canada and our Meat/Dairy industry is very highly protected from outside sources. I don't care who banned what from the USA. Just because people ban the shittiest of the shit from one country that likes to mass produce garbage for the nations doesn't make it all bad.

Preventing heart disease and clots has a lot more to do with not consuming garbage vegetable oils and grains than it does eating soy. People talk about soy like it's this one thing that helps with X, Y and Z. There are way too many dietary and lifestyle factors that go into protecting your heart and your life and more often than not it has nothing to do with red meat or soy alone. It has to do with what you consume along side of it. I would argue that people on a cyclical ketogenic diet fair more positively than just about any other group does. I would imagine that Vegetarians/Vegans live long not because they don't eat mean but because they lead a very different lifestyle than people who live off of vegetable fried, heavily processed, low quality products. There's a difference.

For all the positive effects of soy, it doesn't take much to find all of the detriments as well. Everything has to be taken in context. Soy is just a far less superior product than meat and when I mean meat I don't mean mass produced. I advocate for ethically raised, grass fed beef above all else and that is what I invest my money in. Vegetable proteins are a joke in comparison. Quinoa is probably the closest thing I would tolerate as a secondary source of protein except for the fact that it is so outrageously expensive when you consider the quantity you have to consume to get the benefits.

Do you know what else has positive effects on the brain? Progesterone. Does that mean we should all be consuming the mini-pill to get the effects and regular our menstrual cycles? Sorry, I don't buy it. I'd love to see all the scientific studies that you got this information from though. And I do hope you understand how studies should be read and how the data ought to be interpreted. It would be a shame if you made your decisions based on contrived science, because the soy industry is really big and there's a lot of money behind it.

If you're ever interested to learn how absolutely fucked all the dietary guidelines are and how corrupt the nutritional policies are worldwide, Peter Attia has some truly phenomenal, eye opening lectures on how it all came to be.

Also, I am not hateful towards veganism and vegetarianism, I am hateful to the food industry and the politics and the bad science that allowed things to be in the state that they're in, and I am hateful towards the ignorance the general population has (not really their own fault) that is leading them down the path to very, very poor health and early death.

Actually Canadian farming industries are identical to the U.S. Canada uses hormones and antibiotics in their livestock. Europe does not (eg, Germany, Switzerland, France etc)

Progesterone actually halts brain function, what is good for the brain is soy(pseudo estrogen) and melatonin and vitamin b complex, especially niacinamide, which reverses alzheimers.

If you think about the U.S. And Canada, one of their chief industries is agriculture. Monsanto makes loads of products for consumption, GMO foods one of them. High fructose corn syrup is another money maker, hence why it is in virtually all US and Canadian food products. If you follow the money trail, the people who are advocates of meat are also controlling the agriculture industries + government subsidies make for huge profit. In comparison, the soy industries are small. McDonald's is not allowed to have a vegetarian burger option in the U.S. And Canada due to govt subsidies of the meat they use.

 

[SpecialEdition]

Actually Canadian farming industries are identical to the U.S. Canada uses hormones and antibiotics in their livestock. Europe does not (eg, Germany, Switzerland, France etc)

Progesterone actually halts brain function, what is good for the brain is soy(pseudo estrogen) and melatonin and vitamin b complex, especially niacinamide, which reverses alzheimers.

If you think about the U.S. And Canada, one of their chief industries is agriculture. Monsanto makes loads of products for consumption, GMO foods one of them. High fructose corn syrup is another money maker, hence why it is in virtually all US and Canadian food products. If you follow the money trail, the people who are advocates of meat are also controlling the agriculture industries + government subsidies make for huge profit. In comparison, the soy industries are small. McDonald's is not allowed to have a vegetarian burger option in the U.S. And Canada due to govt subsidies of the meat they use.

I don't support industrial farming. I buy grass fed beef only from ethically raised cows and only buy products that are not tampered with and drowning in chemicals and medications. I take my food choices very, very seriously. You don't have to educate me on the bullshit of the food industry, I am all too aware. That's not going to make me give up eating meat. Rather, I'd rather find a sustainable and healthier way to get my meat products which is exactly what I've done. I just bought half a cow and it is delicious.

So you're saying Progesterone halts brain function but a lot of the science says otherwise. Could it be that all of the benefits you're throwing out about estrogen could also have adverse effects? There is a positive and negative side to anything if you see what you choose to see and apply that out of the context of a very healthy life.

Again, don't waste your time on the Monsanto bullshit and all the high fructose corn syrup stuff with me. I do not eat any of it. I don't eat anything that you can't cut off an animal or pull out of the ground so all of this does not apply to my own personal situation. I can't say the same for other people. Maybe going Vegan or Vegetarian is good for people who eat a diet full of 100% shit and introducing some fruits and veggies are good, but do you know how many so-called vegetarians actually just eat food that doesn't have meat? That is to say they end up on an extremely high carb diet?

I can't speak against carbs enough. I really can't. They are only useful in a refeed to replete glycogen stores if a person works out.

 

[invisible]

I sometimes eat a piece of meat when I become overwhelmed with stress but this is rare. I have been this way for about 5 years. My doctor tests my blood regularly and she says I am in perfect health. Eating parts of animal corpses makes me uncomfortable because I find it difficult to formulate a meaningful abstract distinction between the validity of my inner emotional life and theirs. I believe that the realities of meat production unavoidably damage the planet badly and choose not to finance this through consumption. Whether my health suffers and I die young (a hypothesis that is contrary to the evidence-based medical feedback that is available to me) is less important to me than other considerations like these. I think I am basically evil, enslaved to a biologically inherent will to dominance, but I choose to take a harm minimisation approach and limit my meat consumption as close to zero as I can manage. I find the mainstream cultural obsession with regular meat consumption disturbing and will never understand why 9/10 restaurant menu items contain animal body parts or why many people feel it is imperative to eat meat in every meal.

 

[HunterO]

I don't support industrial farming. I buy grass fed beef only from ethically raised cows and only buy products that are not tampered with and drowning in chemicals and medications. I take my food choices very, very seriously. You don't have to educate me on the bullshit of the food industry, I am all too aware. That's not going to make me give up eating meat. Rather, I'd rather find a sustainable and healthier way to get my meat products which is exactly what I've done. I just bought half a cow and it is delicious.

So you're saying Progesterone halts brain function but a lot of the science says otherwise. Could it be that all of the benefits you're throwing out about estrogen could also have adverse effects? There is a positive and negative side to anything if you see what you choose to see and apply that out of the context of a very healthy life.

Again, don't waste your time on the Monsanto bullshit and all the high fructose corn syrup stuff with me. I do not eat any of it. I don't eat anything that you can't cut off an animal or pull out of the ground so all of this does not apply to my own personal situation. I can't say the same for other people. Maybe going Vegan or Vegetarian is good for people who eat a diet full of 100% shit and introducing some fruits and veggies are good, but do you know how many so-called vegetarians actually just eat food that doesn't have meat? That is to say they end up on an extremely high carb diet?

I can't speak against carbs enough. I really can't. They are only useful in a refeed to replete glycogen stores if a person works out.

Steroidal estrogen (birth control pills) has many negative side effects, from high blood pressure, blood clots to premature ovarian failure and cancer. Pseudo estrogen(plant based) has no negative side effects. Also grapefruit is another pseudo estrogen source. Of course there is always too much of a good thing in excess, like eating too much fruit...or meat in your case

It's your choice to eat and desire meat, but come on now SE, to say vegetarians and vegans are ruining their health is just inaccurate by all logic and standards.

Also preaching about how meat is good for you sounds a bit like what a fanatic religious person says. Yeah yeah, meat is traditional and the norm, doesn't mean that other people can make more conscious choices. And I do think perhaps your making fun of people who do care about animal cruelty and their feelings seem a bit lacking in sensitivity on your part. If you ever spend time on a farm, it really is heartbreaking to see animals get butchered, especially chickens and pigs. Even ethically raised cows get treated the same in the end, a state shotgun to the head, sometimes they don't die right away, and left there for hours to bleed to death while they are half conscious.

 

[SpecialEdition]

Steroidal estrogen (birth control pills) has many negative side effects, from high blood pressure, blood clots to premature ovarian failure and cancer. Pseudo estrogen(plant based) has no negative side effects. Also grapefruit is another pseudo estrogen source. Of course there is always too much of a good thing in excess, like eating too much fruit...or meat in your case

It's your choice to eat and desire meat, but come on now SE, to say vegetarians and vegans are ruining their health is just inaccurate by all logic and standards.

Also preaching about how meat is good for you sounds a bit like what a fanatic religious person says. Yeah yeah, meat is traditional and the norm, doesn't mean that other people can make more conscious choices. And I do think perhaps your making fun of people who do care about animal cruelty and their feelings seem a bit lacking in sensitivity on your part. If you ever spend time on a farm, it really is heartbreaking to see animals get butchered, especially chickens and pigs. Even ethically raised cows get treated the same in the end, a state shotgun to the head, sometimes they don't die right away, and left there for hours to bleed to death while they are half conscious.

I don't care if I sound insensitive. I am not making fun of people who care about animal cruelty. Are you missing the part where I don't support the regular meat/dairy industry for this exact reason? I cannot even tell you how many articles and interviews I've read from ex-vegans... People who adhered to that sort of lifestyle and were forced to start eating meat again to regain their health. This goes for high profile celebrities who have access to the highest quality of everything, to people who are prominent in the vegan community who were then witch hunted by the same people who used to praise them, to regular folk who chose a vegan diet and couldn't sustain it. I think the ONLY advantage a vegetarian/vegan diet has is that it can be a short term solution to encourage people to eat more whole foods and be more conscious about what they put in their body. But honestly, there are so many people out there who are turning away from that diet and lifestyle because it deteriorated their health.

Now, I know there are outliers who perform well on this kind of thing, but I would argue it is absolutely not the majority. I think you can make a vegan/vegetarian diet work with a lot of supplementation and eating a large volume of food just to meet your basic micro/macro needs but I do not believe that is sustainable for long term health.

Also, the science does not support that a high protein diet is bad for you. In fact, to preserve your lean body mass you need to be eating 0.8g per pound of lean body mass. That is not an excessive amount of protein. However, if you are eating low quality proteins and are combining that with vegetable oils and high glycemic carbs and do not have very good lifestyle habits then you're going to have some issues.

Personally, I believe in a very high fat, moderate protein and low carb diet. The science supporting this is exceptionally strong and finally all of the misinformation and lies that the diet industry have perpetuated against saturated fat and meat are coming to the forefront and people are starting to wake up and realize that the guidelines they've been given are based on biased science backed by the big money makers in the food/pharma industry. That's as clear as day.

I am not making an unconscious decision to eat meat. I am making an extremely conscious decision to eat an adequate amount of very high quality foods and my entire life has changed for the better because of it. This coming from somoene who used to eat a predominately vegetarian diet which was destructive to my mental and psychological health.

I don't care that the animals get slaughtered. They all do in the end. What I care about is that for the duration of their life they are fed a proper diet, that they aren't pumped up with chemical garbage and they aren't raised in an unethical environment. This is what I support.... Local small time farmers who care for their animals properly. I support local as much as I can within reason and that works. If other people did the same, we'd have a very different situation on our hands.

 

[HunterO]

I don't care if I sound insensitive. I am not making fun of people who care about animal cruelty. Are you missing the part where I don't support the regular meat/dairy industry for this exact reason? I cannot even tell you how many articles and interviews I've read from ex-vegans... People who adhered to that sort of lifestyle and were forced to start eating meat again to regain their health. This goes for high profile celebrities who have access to the highest quality of everything, to people who are prominent in the vegan community who were then witch hunted by the same people who used to praise them, to regular folk who chose a vegan diet and couldn't sustain it. I think the ONLY advantage a vegetarian/vegan diet has is that it can be a short term solution to encourage people to eat more whole foods and be more conscious about what they put in their body. But honestly, there are so many people out there who are turning away from that diet and lifestyle because it deteriorated their health.

Now, I know there are outliers who perform well on this kind of thing, but I would argue it is absolutely not the majority. I think you can make a vegan/vegetarian diet work with a lot of supplementation and eating a large volume of food just to meet your basic micro/macro needs but I do not believe that is sustainable for long term health.

Also, the science does not support that a high protein diet is bad for you. In fact, to preserve your lean body mass you need to be eating 0.8g per pound of lean body mass. That is not an excessive amount of protein. However, if you are eating low quality proteins and are combining that with vegetable oils and high glycemic carbs and do not have very good lifestyle habits then you're going to have some issues.

Personally, I believe in a very high fat, moderate protein and low carb diet. The science supporting this is exceptionally strong and finally all of the misinformation and lies that the diet industry have perpetuated against saturated fat and meat are coming to the forefront and people are starting to wake up and realize that the guidelines they've been given are based on biased science backed by the big money makers in the food/pharma industry. That's as clear as day.

I am not making an unconscious decision to eat meat. I am making an extremely conscious decision to eat an adequate amount of very high quality foods and my entire life has changed for the better because of it. This coming from somoene who used to eat a predominately vegetarian diet which was destructive to my mental and psychological health.

I don't care that the animals get slaughtered. They all do in the end. What I care about is that for the duration of their life they are fed a proper diet, that they aren't pumped up with chemical garbage and they aren't raised in an unethical environment. This is what I support.... Local small time farmers who care for their animals properly. I support local as much as I can within reason and that works. If other people did the same, we'd have a very different situation on our hands.

Oh I see. I suppose if vegetarianism didn't work for you, then perhaps multiple factors were in play w regards to your own health. Exactly what did you find happening to your mind and body when you ate a plant based diet? We're there other factors in relation? Medications? Birth control?

I'm not sure a high fat diet would be good for anyone's body. Might just make you, do I dare say, fat.

 

[SpecialEdition]

Oh I see. I suppose if vegetarianism didn't work for you, then perhaps multiple factors were in play w regards to your own health. Exactly what did you find happening to your mind and body when you ate a plant based diet? We're there other factors in relation? Medications? Birth control?

I'm not sure a high fat diet would be good for anyone's body. Might just make you, do I dare say, fat.

High fat diet is optimal for just about everyone. They have 8 clinical trials at major universities going on right now in regards to ketogenic diets and how beneficial they are for brain health. For example, they are studying how a high fat diet can delay and reduce alzheimers and dimentia. There are also a plethora of N=1 cases where a ketogenic diet has reversed stage 4 cancers is people and has actually eliminated the cancer completely. There is a lot of evidence on the table of the benefits at the mitochondrial level as carbohydrates are actually damaging to the body on a cellular level.

The science is there but it has been reserved almost exclusively for treatment of epilepsy. However, now the truth is coming to the forefront in regards to how dietary fat was recommended to be cut out of the diet. Anyone who understands biology on a cellular level will understand how essential fat is to the body and for a plethora of functions. You honestly cannot go wrong on a high fat, low carb diet (and by low carb I mean avoiding high GI carbs for most of the time but not sacrificing vegetables as they have a lot of great micronutrients/minerals). Anyway. A lot of people have the false idea that fats will cause adverse health problems, but if you are getting them from vegetable oils and such, then that is a problem. But animal fat and monosaturated fats are great for you (think coconut oil, avocado oil, etc).

Now, I don't get my disdain for veganism and vegetarianism from my own experiences. It comes from the research that I've done and my own experience just backed that up. In fact, I stopped the accidental vegetarian thing long before I ever had any knowledge of diet/nutrition and only in my reading over the last 3 years did I realize why I felt so shitty all of the time.

I don't take medication and I refuse to take birth control.