INFJs and Vegetarianism

[Yva]

I apologize for leaving my post incomplete. Whether you are INFJ or not, what are your thoughts about being/becoming a vegetarian? Saying it doesn’t matter is still a valid response

Wish everyone a great weekend!

If I ever was to become vegetarian it would be for my health and for nothing else. I don't like routines and is very hard for me to stay motivated so that would never happen. Doesn't mean that I have not tried, it lasted for about 2 months (Which Im very surprised about). Sorry but I live to eat all sorts of food.

 

[barbad0s]

I don't like routines and is very hard for me to stay motivated so that would never happen. Doesn't mean that I have not tried, it lasted for about 2 months (Which Im very surprised about).

This is sort of my experience with vegetarianism/veganism. I've experimented with them both, but ultimately fell away from it each time.

I have issues with I guess feeding myself and maintaining my health in a regular manner. My life is sort of a shit storm and I hope to learn to take care of myself better as soon as possible; I try not to feel sorry for myself about it etc., lol. I just try my best to be healthy and not die. I don't really have any room or time to care about the ethical implications of my diet with where my health is right now. Maybe in the future--but, currently, I have to maximize my ability to maintain a fit and able body composition and mind first and foremost. The fact that many meat products out there are very low quality is but one of the many things that I take into consideration when I choose what to eat.

I am a rather sensitive person sometimes, and I especially get very emotional when I see an animal, especially another mammal, suffering and afraid. It's very saddening to me. I feel like it would be very difficult for me to kill an animal by my own hand. I have never done it before. I've never even held a gun. I feel like if I had to feed myself in the wild, I would start off by roasting worms, slugs, and other insects, and soon enough try to find fish. I might feel differently if I got really hungry or something eventually and felt like something cuter and furrier would be nutritionally valuable but I don't really have this surviving in the wild experience. Sometimes I'm emotional to what would appear to be the point of complete delusion, or in any case I know for a fact that I can feel emotional over events which are simulated mentally by yours truly. I remember one time when I was 6 years old, I wrote an emotional story about a sentient dustball, and then I cried profusely. So apparently I can just be sentimental purely for the sake of itself and the experience of sentimentality sometimes, and so making actual rational use of my sentiments can necessitate me doing extra mental gymnastics as well as looking outside myself to compare my emotions against reality and the prospective concrete effects of my activity.

Anyway, my point is that I find it difficult to be ethically perfect, but for some reason I am very soft-hearted and idealistic and my self-image is too fragile to not be trying to not make self-serving choices, at least when it seems like it wouldn't hurt me to do so.

 

[Dohavior]

Lets get real here there isn't a single Vegan recipe on this entire thread. And the only reason it is posted is because come spring time there is going to be a horde of shoppers buying up more veggies than they know what to do with. This situation is just like all those paranoid shoppers whom clean the shops out right before a storm. And its like why man do you need that much toilet paper, seriously is that for when all the food runs out!?

Vegetarian: I like this one for when I want tacos for breakfast, but am just too damn lazy.
http://www.realsimple.com/food-reci...easy/oatmeal-recipe/oatmeal-fried-egg-avocado

Vegan: Yes, you may have to butcher a chia pet or two in the making of this dish, but wow does it pack a kick.
http://ohsheglows.com/2012/01/11/healthy-chocolate-chia-pudding/

 

[HunterO]

High fat diet is optimal for just about everyone. They have 8 clinical trials at major universities going on right now in regards to ketogenic diets and how beneficial they are for brain health. For example, they are studying how a high fat diet can delay and reduce alzheimers and dimentia. There are also a plethora of N=1 cases where a ketogenic diet has reversed stage 4 cancers is people and has actually eliminated the cancer completely. There is a lot of evidence on the table of the benefits at the mitochondrial level as carbohydrates are actually damaging to the body on a cellular level.

The science is there but it has been reserved almost exclusively for treatment of epilepsy. However, now the truth is coming to the forefront in regards to how dietary fat was recommended to be cut out of the diet. Anyone who understands biology on a cellular level will understand how essential fat is to the body and for a plethora of functions. You honestly cannot go wrong on a high fat, low carb diet (and by low carb I mean avoiding high GI carbs for most of the time but not sacrificing vegetables as they have a lot of great micronutrients/minerals). Anyway. A lot of people have the false idea that fats will cause adverse health problems, but if you are getting them from vegetable oils and such, then that is a problem. But animal fat and monosaturated fats are great for you (think coconut oil, avocado oil, etc).

Now, I don't get my disdain for veganism and vegetarianism from my own experiences. It comes from the research that I've done and my own experience just backed that up. In fact, I stopped the accidental vegetarian thing long before I ever had any knowledge of diet/nutrition and only in my reading over the last 3 years did I realize why I felt so shitty all of the time.

I don't take medication and I refuse to take birth control.

A few things:

1. Clinical trials go on at universities all the time, year round. There are many studies about everything, doesn't mean that it will be successful.

2. Just because "they" are studying how a high fat diet can delay alzheimers and dementia, doesn't mean that they are "right".

3. I've mentioned before that what has been proven is that niacinamide and melatonin REVERSES alzheimer's not a HIGH FAT DIET. That is a B-vitamin, and a natural hormone that the brain produces, not HIGH FAT (aka, bacon grease, chicken fat, the fatty parts of steak) Also... verified studies have proven that it is the amino acid taurine, that prevents and cures epilepsy, not HIGH ANIMAL FATS.

4. It's been PROVEN that people who subsist on high fat, especially in meats (aka, bacon grease, chicken fat, the fatty parts of steak) in their primary diet tend to suffer from an onslaught of HEALTH PROBLEMS, such as heart disease, diabetes, obesity. So therefore, your theory that a high fat diet is good for everyone is entirely inaccurate. In fact, a high fat diet can be said to be the cause of health problems, not that they are "good" for you.

5. In terms of a ketagenic diet, it is a diet that is not necessarily good because it is high in fat, but that it tends to favour foods rich in vitamin K2: butter, cream and arginine: nuts which is necessary to release nitric oxide into the bloodstream. Vitamin K2 repairs damaged blood vessels. Another food rich in vitamin K2 is natto (fermented tofu).

6. High fat, in general, is not essential to the body for survival at the cellular level. However, certain types of fat, such as the ones present in coconut oil, avocado fat (WHICH ARE VEGETARIAN BTW increase absorption of other vitamins from food sources.

7. Just because celebrities try fad diets and can't stick with them doesn't mean that people in general can't maintain vegan and vegetarian diets. In fact, there is such a high demand for vegan and vegetarian specialty foods that there are vegetarian supermarkets opening up all around the world as we speak and it is said that by 2040, demand for vegan and vegetarian items will go up 500%.


You said:
Now, I don't get my disdain for veganism and vegetarianism from my own experiences. It comes from the research that I've done and my own experience just backed that up. In fact, I stopped the accidental vegetarian thing long before I ever had any knowledge of diet/nutrition and only in my reading over the last 3 years did I realize why I felt so shitty all of the time.

It is easy to fall into confirmation bias when you have not done all the research. Now, there is a ton of research out there, so it is easy to get lost in media sensationalism. However, if someone were to read the last few posts you have written, it might be that you might appear as a egocentric individual unable to see outside her own viewpoint, entirely bereft of emotional intelligence, brainwashed by Oprah Winfrey and her celeb friends who can't stick to a diet.

And of course, that's not you Special Edition.

 

[SpecialEdition]

A few things:

1. Clinical trials go on at universities all the time, year round. There are many studies about everything, doesn't mean that it will be successful.

2. Just because "they" are studying how a high fat diet can delay alzheimers and dementia, doesn't mean that they are "right".

3. I've mentioned before that what has been proven is that niacinamide and melatonin REVERSES alzheimer's not a HIGH FAT DIET. That is a B-vitamin, and a natural hormone that the brain produces, not HIGH FAT (aka, bacon grease, chicken fat, the fatty parts of steak) Also... verified studies have proven that it is the amino acid taurine, that prevents and cures epilepsy, not HIGH ANIMAL FATS.

4. It's been PROVEN that people who subsist on high fat, especially in meats (aka, bacon grease, chicken fat, the fatty parts of steak) in their primary diet tend to suffer from an onslaught of HEALTH PROBLEMS, such as heart disease, diabetes, obesity. So therefore, your theory that a high fat diet is good for everyone is entirely inaccurate. In fact, a high fat diet can be said to be the cause of health problems, not that they are "good" for you.

5. In terms of a ketagenic diet, it is a diet that is not necessarily good because it is high in fat, but that it tends to favour foods rich in vitamin K2: butter, cream and arginine: nuts which is necessary to release nitric oxide into the bloodstream. Vitamin K2 repairs damaged blood vessels. Another food rich in vitamin K2 is natto (fermented tofu).

6. High fat, in general, is not essential to the body for survival at the cellular level. However, certain types of fat, such as the ones present in coconut oil, avocado fat (WHICH ARE VEGETARIAN BTW increase absorption of other vitamins from food sources.

7. Just because celebrities try fad diets and can't stick with them doesn't mean that people in general can't maintain vegan and vegetarian diets. In fact, there is such a high demand for vegan and vegetarian specialty foods that there are vegetarian supermarkets opening up all around the world as we speak and it is said that by 2040, demand for vegan and vegetarian items will go up 500%.


You said:
Now, I don't get my disdain for veganism and vegetarianism from my own experiences. It comes from the research that I've done and my own experience just backed that up. In fact, I stopped the accidental vegetarian thing long before I ever had any knowledge of diet/nutrition and only in my reading over the last 3 years did I realize why I felt so shitty all of the time.

It is easy to fall into confirmation bias when you have not done all the research. Now, there is a ton of research out there, so it is easy to get lost in media sensationalism. However, if someone were to read the last few posts you have written, it might be that you might appear as a egocentric individual unable to see outside her own viewpoint, entirely bereft of emotional intelligence, brainwashed by Oprah Winfrey and her celeb friends who can't stick to a diet.

And of course, that's not you Special Edition.

Everything is just so all wrong here I don't even know where to start, so I am not going to. Clearly we're not going to change each other's minds so I am going to stop because it's pointless. You are coming from your position based on studies that were corrupt and based on technology that is so outdated it all becomes irrelevant. If you really want to understand why high fat is demonized I encourage you to watch through some of Peter Attia's lectures, watch the documentary Fat Head and actually take some time to understand cholesterol, heart disease, etc and how they're absolutely, 100% not caused exclusively by saturated fat. You are picking on one essential macronutrient instead of understanding the wider context of how that operates in the body in conjunction with a lot of other factors. Until you actually understand cellular biology, physiology and how food works (TOGETHER, not just one macro) in the body I can't really help you understand my position.

No, that's not me. Perhaps you're talking about yourself.

 

[HunterO]

Everything is just so all wrong here I don't even know where to start, so I am not going to. Clearly we're not going to change each other's minds so I am going to stop because it's pointless. You are coming from your position based on studies that were corrupt and based on technology that is so outdated it all becomes irrelevant. If you really want to understand why high fat is demonized I encourage you to watch through some of Peter Attia's lectures, watch the documentary Fat Head and actually take some time to understand cholesterol, heart disease, etc and how they're absolutely, 100% not caused exclusively by saturated fat. You are picking on one essential macronutrient instead of understanding the wider context of how that operates in the body in conjunction with a lot of other factors. Until you actually understand cellular biology, physiology and how food works (TOGETHER, not just one macro) in the body I can't really help you understand my position.

No, that's not me. Perhaps you're talking about yourself.

Has anyone suggested you ever learn humour or charm? :O Enjoy your bacon grease, chicken fat and fatty steaks. I'm certain you'll be the model of health in 10 years.

 

[SpecialEdition]

Has anyone suggested you ever learn humour or charm? :O Enjoy your bacon grease, chicken fat and fatty steaks. I'm certain you'll be the model of health in 10 years.

I have plenty of humour and charm but I don't apply it where I don't see fit.

Additionally, I do love bacon and eggs and a good steak! Nothing like delicious, nutrient dense meat. Really fuels the soul. Chicken on the other hand has exceptionally low fat in comparison to most food, so shouldn't be on the list. Unless you're talking deep fried, which I don't eat.

We can have a competition to see who lives the longest, healthiest life. As two females in our 30's we should die around the same time if we're both taking care of our stress, sleep, diet and exercise. I'll let you know as soon as my health starts to deteriorate, but seeing as how since I switched to how I eat now my health has only continued to dramatically improve I'm not sure I'll see that decline any time soon!

Best of luck to us both on our journey.

 

[Elis]

I think you'd have a much easier time getting your point across if you just tried to be tactful about it. I don't think anyone want to read what you have to say if you're just going to personally attack each other.

 

[SpecialEdition]

I think you'd have a much easier time getting your point across if you just tried to be tactful about it. I don't think anyone want to read what you have to say if you're just going to personally attack each other.

Haven't you heard? I have no tact.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Has anyone suggested you ever learn humour or charm? :O Enjoy your bacon grease, chicken fat and fatty steaks. I'm certain you'll be the model of health in 10 years.

Simply not true. I know several people who have gone on the paleo diet. In every case the6 comment on how their doctor cant understand how they become healthier to include their bad cholesterol levels plummeting. The short simple truth is that processed food is the main culprit of health issies. The other is that the government lies to their population telling them to eat more grains. They say its because you need them but thats bs. Its because grains are easier to produce and distribute and can feed more people. Humans have evovled to be meat eaters and that is what we are.

 

[Eventhorizon]

I think you'd have a much easier time getting your point across if you just tried to be tactful about it. I don't think anyone want to read what you have to say if you're just going to personally attack each other.

I actually like [MENTION=7838]SpecialEdition[/MENTION] 's directness. Its refreshing. No BS.

 

[nosferatu]

I've thought about becoming vegetarian and have had periods where I've tried it or had to eliminate meat for a few weeks.

Thing is I have legit b12 and iron absorption issues even when I wasn't attempting to be a vegetarian, I've had them all my life - I can certainly eat foods and take supplements with b12 and iron but I can't always promise my body will absorb all of it. So for me I could change my selection of meat to a vegetable or something that supposedly is just as good, but there's certain meats I've made note to stockpile up on- mussels in particular. I eat a ton of mussels these days.

I can't tell you how many times I've ended up at the doctor or running to the emergency room because I was anemic and was having painful heart palpitations.

And then I think okay well maybe these animals have it worse, they are dying and I keep enabling their situation by eating them...

Then I look back at cavemen and wondered if they cared they were hunting down animals so they could get enough energy to keep running around, doing more hunting. I wonder if there were cavemen vegetarians. And were they aware of stuff like anemia. Stuff like this starts always spinning around in my head when I think about the choices I make.

I don't know I mean I've really thought about it but I would like to see a nutritionist and get tested for hemochromatosis, because my dad has it and it runs in the family.

 

[barbad0s]

Elis lol

 

[HunterO]

Simply not true. I know several people who have gone on the paleo diet. In every case the6 comment on how their doctor cant understand how they become healthier to include their bad cholesterol levels plummeting. The short simple truth is that processed food is the main culprit of health issies. The other is that the government lies to their population telling them to eat more grains. They say its because you need them but thats bs. Its because grains are easier to produce and distribute and can feed more people. Humans have evovled to be meat eaters and that is what we are.

Ohhh "the government" lies and tries to get you to eat more grains by subsidizing MEAT!!! How strange, indeed! :loco:

Honestly, I think your definition of "direct" is parallel to a fundamentalist Christian telling everyone they are going to hell if they don't believe in God and stay virgins until marriage: Y'all gonna die and suffer if y'all don't eat MEAT, duh!

What you call "direct", I call ignorance+ overbearing personality + low emotional intelligence.

 

[SpecialEdition]

Ohhh "the government" lies and tries to get you to eat more grains by subsidizing MEAT!!! How strange, indeed! :loco:

Honestly, I think your definition of "direct" is parallel to a fundamentalist Christian telling everyone they are going to hell if they don't believe in God and stay virgins until marriage: Y'all gonna die and suffer if y'all don't eat MEAT, duh!

What you call "direct", I call ignorance+ overbearing personality + low emotional intelligence.

lolololol. Your feelings must be sad if the only thing you can do is try to personally insult me

Do you not see that your posts are exactly the same in nature? Did you not allude to the fact that MY health and wellness would decline by eating meat? Did you not tell another member to engage in cardio to lose fat from the bacon fat she was eating? Oh come on. The hypocrisy is simply delicious!

 

[HunterO]

lolololol. Your feelings must be sad if the only thing you can do is try to personally insult me

Do you not see that your posts are exactly the same in nature? Did you not allude to the fact that MY health and wellness would decline by eating meat? Did you not tell another member to engage in cardio to lose fat from the bacon fat she was eating? Oh come on. The hypocrisy is simply delicious!

I don't go around insulting other people whose beliefs are different from mine. But if you're going to go around insulting vegans and vegetarians and imposing your belief onto others, then you can have a taste of your own medicine. Obviously you're blind to your own fundamentalism and incapable of rationality or objective thought.

 

[HunterO]

I've thought about becoming vegetarian and have had periods where I've tried it or had to eliminate meat for a few weeks.

Thing is I have legit b12 and iron absorption issues even when I wasn't attempting to be a vegetarian, I've had them all my life - I can certainly eat foods and take supplements with b12 and iron but I can't always promise my body will absorb all of it. So for me I could change my selection of meat to a vegetable or something that supposedly is just as good, but there's certain meats I've made note to stockpile up on- mussels in particular. I eat a ton of mussels these days.

I can't tell you how many times I've ended up at the doctor or running to the emergency room because I was anemic and was having painful heart palpitations.

And then I think okay well maybe these animals have it worse, they are dying and I keep enabling their situation by eating them...

Then I look back at cavemen and wondered if they cared they were hunting down animals so they could get enough energy to keep running around, doing more hunting. I wonder if there were cavemen vegetarians. And were they aware of stuff like anemia. Stuff like this starts always spinning around in my head when I think about the choices I make.

I don't know I mean I've really thought about it but I would like to see a nutritionist and get tested for hemochromatosis, because my dad has it and it runs in the family.

If you eat dark chocolate, you won't have issues with iron absorption. Dark chocolate is rich in iron, better than iron supplements and the body absorbs it more.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Ohhh "the government" lies and tries to get you to eat more grains by subsidizing MEAT!!! How strange, indeed! :loco:

Honestly, I think your definition of "direct" is parallel to a fundamentalist Christian telling everyone they are going to hell if they don't believe in God and stay virgins until marriage: Y'all gonna die and suffer if y'all don't eat MEAT, duh!

What you call "direct", I call ignorance+ overbearing personality + low emotional intelligence.

If you look into all aspects of food consumption, population growth, dietary needs of a human being you start to get a clearer picture. Of course the government will never come out and say we want you to eat more grain because meat production is far more difficult. When the fda updates their food chart its not based on actual human needs. Look into it a bit more before you shoot my comments down. I would not expect you or anyone to take my word alone. I would like to think however that it does get you to start asking more questions in general.
Now I have no issue with eating meat. I recognize that its either my survival or the animals survival. As it turns out I am at the top of the food chain so I am almost always going to win. And that my friend is not my fault, the universe made me this way. It not only made it so that I need meat but it made it so that I can get meat. I am living by natures rules.
I do have an issue with how animals are treated in the slaughter houses though and I would be willing to pay more for my food if it addressed treating them more humanely up until the point and time their lives are taken from them... but I somehow doubt this will ever happen.

 

[HunterO]

If you look into all aspects of food consumption, population growth, dietary needs of a human being you start to get a clearer picture. Of course the government will never come out and say we want you to eat more grain because meat production is far more difficult. When the fda updates their food chart its not based on actual human needs. Look into it a bit more before you shoot my comments down. I would not expect you or anyone to take my word alone. I would like to think however that it does get you to start asking more questions in general.
Now I have no issue with eating meat. I recognize that its either my survival or the animals survival. As it turns out I am at the top of the food chain so I am almost always going to win. And that my friend is not my fault, the universe made me this way. It not only made it so that I need meat but it made it so that I can get meat. I am living by natures rules.
I do have an issue with how animals are treated in the slaughter houses though and I would be willing to pay more for my food if it addressed treating them more humanely up until the point and time their lives are taken from them... but I somehow doubt this will ever happen.

Being at the top of the food chain means that we can plant and grow things, cook things, import and export food, replicate food and even genetically modify them.

Animals at the bottom of the food chain- Tigers, Lions and the like cannot farm, nor cook nor import/export food sources. They are entirely reliant on their external environment in which are migrant to weather, and must only eat what is available to them to kill.

Being at the top of the food chain means that we don't have to kill other animals for food sources, because we have the ability to farm, cook, replicate and clone foods and even genetically modify them.

Tigers/lions/etc cannot get all their necessary vitamins and nutrients from their environment. We, HUMANS, can. We even know how to replicate and extract each specific amino acid and vitamins that we need to survive. In fact, our scientists won Nobel Prizes for this since the 1920s, when it was discovered that humans who were prone to certain diseases were VITAMIN DEFICIENT.

 

[nosferatu]

If you eat dark chocolate, you won't have issues with iron absorption. Dark chocolate is rich in iron, better than iron supplements and the body absorbs it more.

Tried this. It didn't do much.