Is the ENTP-INFJ thing a mirage?!

[Poetic Justice]

He only saved you because you owe him money

Seriously though, I think you are right

ENTP's can help us to come out of our shell. The ones I know seem to understand and accept my strangeness. In fact they seem fascinated by it.

It is most certainly a drain on me speaking to them but that is the only way we will learn.

 

[UncertainSomething]

Personally I like the idea, but that is just an idea and reality may be different. I'd still like to explore the potential of a relationship with an ENTP.

 

[Exits]

Well, having an ENTP best friend since I was 6, and having been dating an ENTP for 8 months now, I can say "excellent friends, complicated lovers" is spot on.

It is not easy at all, and I have been through enough wonderful relationships to have a good context. Methods of showing affection are different, conversation/quiet time requirements are different, preferred activities are different (have never known an ENTP that didn't love to be in loud, social atmospheres at least a few times a week.)

I feel as though we both want to be together, and we love each other very much, but we just can't get basic puzzle pieces to fit. We'll be in bed late at night and she thinks it's odd that I'm not talking and I'll think it's odd that she's not cuddling. I'll want some affirmation of the status of the relationship, and nothing turns her off more than defining the status of anything. I tend to be a little too generous and she tends to be a little too opportunist.

It's really been a brutal and hard experience, and that's WITH the best intentions from both of us. Not a natural fit for lovers at all -- be ready for a lot of work and a lot of time spent outside your comfort zone.

 

[1whitehorse1]

Well, having an ENTP best friend since I was 6, and having been dating an ENTP for 8 months now, I can say "excellent friends, complicated lovers" is spot on.

It is not easy at all, and I have been through enough wonderful relationships to have a good context. Methods of showing affection are different, conversation/quiet time requirements are different, preferred activities are different (have never known an ENTP that didn't love to be in loud, social atmospheres at least a few times a week.)

I feel as though we both want to be together, and we love each other very much, but we just can't get basic puzzle pieces to fit. We'll be in bed late at night and she thinks it's odd that I'm not talking and I'll think it's odd that she's not cuddling. I'll want some affirmation of the status of the relationship, and nothing turns her off more than defining the status of anything. I tend to be a little too generous and she tends to be a little too opportunist.

It's really been a brutal and hard experience, and that's WITH the best intentions from both of us. Not a natural fit for lovers at all -- be ready for a lot of work and a lot of time spent outside your comfort zone.

Oh boy. I wanna chime in here. I've dated two ENTPs (I'm INFJ) and the first one was very gregarious and shy/loud dynamic. He was super nerdy and lacked some decorum. He was kind of crap with his social skills, meaning he'd say awkward things at awkward times, or be really weirdly quiet on purpose. This one was into computers, classical piano. He would get stressed out if he couldn't process my feelings. Seeing him not be able to process my feelings with some idea or respect for what they were was exhausting. We did have a pretty magical connection, nerd-wise, but ultimately, it was complicated in the 'lovers' stage, and he was super needy and...opportunistic. This drove me nuts. He assumed he would like to marry me after probably 6 months of knowing me as a friend. (*ahem* issues).

Now, the second ENTP was also childlike, playful, but much more laid back and more 'introverted', less socially awkward - actually, he was quite sociable with a good social circle, but identified as a 'nerd' (even though he's much hotter than the former haha) and a computer geek who was into video games, sword collections, smoking pot, partying, raves, cheesy heavy metal, having a grand old time. He watched Mulholland Drive and 'couldnt compute' the feelings in the film...had to grab a cigarette to calm down. Even though I found this ENTP way more desirable than the last, I know that deep down, it would not work. When we went to the art museum, he found the spiral staircase the most fascinating thing there, along with the carved figurine of a skull/skeleton..yeah. He found it to be remarkable that I could draw meaning from looking at paintings...so even though this ENTP was super cute, and a nice guy overall, it faded out much quicker - I had a more cerebral connection with the first but more attracted to the second.

That's my two cents on dating an ENTP - sounds great on paper, but in real life...that's the acid test. I think its the E + TP combo that screws it up. The N is great, but the rest can lead to an epic fail, beyond friends.

 

[Saru Inc]

I've heard that too, but i question it. Not sure why this pairing should work better compared to others. I think INFJs may find romantic relationships more difficult it seems because they have an ideal of love, and would rather not settle, imo.

Well I personally completely understand and comprehend INTPs. However... Entps make me flipping rage. My mom is an entp. *shudders*

 

[IndigoSensor]

Oh boy. I wanna chime in here. I've dated two ENTPs (I'm INFJ) and the first one was very gregarious and shy/loud dynamic. He was super nerdy and lacked some decorum. He was kind of crap with his social skills, meaning he'd say awkward things at awkward times, or be really weirdly quiet on purpose. This one was into computers, classical piano. He would get stressed out if he couldn't process my feelings. Seeing him not be able to process my feelings with some idea or respect for what they were was exhausting. We did have a pretty magical connection, nerd-wise, but ultimately, it was complicated in the 'lovers' stage, and he was super needy and...opportunistic. This drove me nuts. He assumed he would like to marry me after probably 6 months of knowing me as a friend. (*ahem* issues).

Now, the second ENTP was also childlike, playful, but much more laid back and more 'introverted', less socially awkward - actually, he was quite sociable with a good social circle, but identified as a 'nerd' (even though he's much hotter than the former haha) and a computer geek who was into video games, sword collections, smoking pot, partying, raves, cheesy heavy metal, having a grand old time. He watched Mulholland Drive and 'couldnt compute' the feelings in the film...had to grab a cigarette to calm down. Even though I found this ENTP way more desirable than the last, I know that deep down, it would not work. When we went to the art museum, he found the spiral staircase the most fascinating thing there, along with the carved figurine of a skull/skeleton..yeah. He found it to be remarkable that I could draw meaning from looking at paintings...so even though this ENTP was super cute, and a nice guy overall, it faded out much quicker - I had a more cerebral connection with the first but more attracted to the second.

That's my two cents on dating an ENTP - sounds great on paper, but in real life...that's the acid test. I think its the E + TP combo that screws it up. The N is great, but the rest can lead to an epic fail, beyond friends.

To me it just sounds like they were lacking in emotional understanding and depth. While this can be an aspect of being an undeveloped ENTP, it does not always happen. ENTP's do have the potential to be emotionally understanding of others once they learn to move past their Ti and work on Fe. For them it actually isn't too hard to do, they just have to want to do it. It seems like these guys did try to do it, but they did it in that ENTP-way of "I will use logic to deduce everything and disregard the input of everyone around me, but I still understand". It is a classic fallacy of non-understanding that NTP's can fall into when they simply don't want to work on their Fe.

 

[1whitehorse1]

Oh and I know there are a few other ladies on here who have found greatness in their ISTP relationships . M-tewalt and Ria ^^ especially!
I'm still pulling for the ISTPs!

MONKEY OVERLOOOOOAD

Really? Do tell. I dated an ISTP for a looong time...actually, we kind of recycled each other...ugh. I still have deep feelings for him though. It sucks. I always compare everyone to him. He's like my idea of the 'perfect everyday guy'. I tried finding love with Es but...I don't know. I sometimes think I'm too introverted for an E. Guh.

 

[1whitehorse1]

To me it just sounds like they were lacking in emotional understanding and depth. While this can be an aspect of being an undeveloped ENTP, it does not always happen. ENTP's do have the potential to be emotionally understanding of others once they learn to move past their Ti and work on Fe. For them it actually isn't too hard to do, they just have to want to do it. It seems like these guys did try to do it, but they did it in that ENTP-way of "I will use logic to deduce everything and disregard the input of everyone around me, but I still understand". It is a classic fallacy of non-understanding that NTP's can fall into when they simply don't want to work on their Fe.

Yeah, that's pretty much what happened. I can even remember how they would both say that in conversation, lol. I guess that that is the lot for 'lazy' ENTPs. I had a feeling that for the latter one, getting in touch with his feelings would mean automatically having to get in touch with some not-so-happy feelings associated with past emotional distresses, and he found this disturbing. As if feelings could kill you or something, or, that if you open the 'feelings box' then EVERYTHING comes out at once. I find I am able to process, contextualize and compartmentalize them a lot better than the T.

 

[myself]

I had to stop hanging out with my ENTP buddy.

We were close friends, right up until he came on to me.

It was one of the most surreal experiences.

The vibes I was getting from him freaked me out.

I was completely surprised.

He had mentioned his tendency to take advantage of people in the past.

I didnt think he'd do it to me.

The incident really shattered any trust I had in him.

I didn't feel comfortable around him after that.

He didnt really know how to be a good friend.

Seemed like he was/is very confused about his feelings.

I've had limited contact with him since.

He crossed a boundary, I had to shut him out.

 

[Matariki]

I had to stop hanging out with my ENTP buddy.

We were close friends, right up until he came on to me.

It was one of the most surreal experiences.

The vibes I was getting from him freaked me out.

I was completely surprised.

He had mentioned his tendency to take advantage of people in the past.

I didnt think he'd do it to me.

The incident really shattered any trust I had in him.

I didn't feel comfortable around him after that.

He didnt really know how to be a good friend.

Seemed like he was/is very confused about his feelings.

I've had limited contact with him since.

He crossed a boundary, I had to shut him out.

This...

I find that many ENTP's tend to be very troubled people and have a hard time of working out their own emotions, yet alone acknowledging them. Unfortunately we have a habit of crossing over the boundaries when it comes to relationships. ENTP's tend learn the hard way, harsh lessons tends to make ENTP's think twice before attempting whatever it is that they are trying to do. I'm not sure if it is just me but I have the feeling that ENTP's in general lack empathy (I know I do, unfortunately ) and can come across as psychopathic.
To all INFJ's, after much introspecting, reading and observing ENTP's in general, I suggest keeping your distance. Immature ENTP's can make life a living hell. They can be extremely self centered, doing everything for themselves in mind and putting themselves and goals on top of the list of importance rather than their spouse, friends, work partner or family. As cruel as it may sound, they will not be afraid to use you as another step in the staircase in order to achieve what it is they are trying to achieve. I'm not saying that all ENTP's are like this, but allot are. ENTP's tend to be natural narcissists.

On the other hand, ENTP's can be extremely caring and considerate people and will not be afraid to put the feelings and well being of others before their own. However this is a rare find, ENTP females will be more inclined to be like this than their male counterparts, but it depends on the overall maturity of the individual.

 

[magister343]

It sounds like most of you would do better upgrading to an INTP.

 

[DevilDoll]

Wouldn't the romantic compatibility of an INFJ and an ENTP depend on the INFJ and ENTP in question? It's never going to be the same situation with the same variables. All we can really do is speculate. I've seen it go well, and I've seen it fail. Personally, I have only dated one INFJ. It was amazing at first. We had a lot in common (both being geeks) so there was quite a bit to do and talk about. Our connection on that level was never an issue. However, he got very emotionally attached and invested rather quickly. I don't do very well in situations like that. So, I told him I thought we should slow things down and just take a minute to think things through and enjoy what we had. He didn't like that very much and got pretty belligerent, accusing me of sleeping around and trying to seduce other men. The funny thing about this entire situation was the fact that we had not discussed being exclusive or being in a relationship. I wasn't seeing anyone else at the time, but he just assumed were boyfriend and girlfriend... without asking. Needless to say that ended anything that even remotely resembled a relationship. Things got incredibly awkward after that night. I have only seen me once and he completely ignored me. I even tried to speak to him and it was as if I didn't exist. That's obviously an example of INFJ + ENTP going south. Though, I'm not sure if you should really count me as an ENTP. I'm not 100%on that yet.

Anyway, I have great friendships with INFJs. We really get along fantastically. You just can't add romance to the mix. We usually have two very different takes on it and that causes a bit of a mess.

Like I said though, It really depends on the people you are dealing with.

 

[Saru Inc]

That's the one problem with INFJ + ENTP, perhaps the biggest, in my opinion.

Note: the following is all from my opinion, I can't speak for any other INFJs out there.

INFJs hate criticism, more than anything in the world, (but also realize deep down it is needed) and ENTPs have no problem dishing it out. (At least the ones I've met.)

For example, at my job I'm very energetic and animated, and despite being on perhaps the top 20 workers there (out of 140), when the boss told me to simply tone it down cuz I was being loud (I really was, I don't blame him.) Despite the fact I knew he was correct in correcting me, as well as I knew he had no bad feelings, I still felt utterly worthless. Moreso than necessary, obviously, I completely shut down and refused to make any contact with anyone there for two hours. A ENTP has no problem in pointing out the flaws, ( again, just the one's I've met) but without a developed Fe, they can be critical of INFJ's (or just people in general) and then be even more critical when the INFJs don't respond the way the ENTPs think they should.

Sigh. I understand INTPs down to a science, especially [MENTION=2635]Melkor[/MENTION]. And ENFPs I also understand and love, though the hugs can get obnoxious. My sister is an ENFP. Hugs up the freaking wazoo.

I think I would get along with an ENFJ quite well to be honest... Though one must be careful when having two Fe's in a relationship, can get sloppy fast.

 

[Melkor]

It sounds like most of you would do better upgrading to an INTP.

With Magister on this.

Entp's are delightful, majestic creatures, but they tend to lack the finesse and delicacy required to maintain an INFJ.

They're like a roaring flame that will certainly burn out, and scorch many on the way. They need brave handlers I would say...


On the other hand, the more rational and less people orientated nature of the INTP might get on some INFJ's nerves, whats more, I'm not so sure an INTP would know how to cultivate an FJ mind...

Ugh, I get this problem with an INFJ lady...She'd be heartbroken, maddened, close to tears, and I'd just be having this semi-hyper fit as I explain some lovely theory or novel concept at high speeds, totally oblivious to her woes...Then when I notice them, I feel really bad for getting so distracted, but I also find that discussing them gets terribly boring, and I feel awkward trying to comfort her... instead resulting to teaching her something in the hopes it'll distract her...
She just goes 'It's okay, don't say sorry, you're a Ne dominant'

Question: Do INFJ's ever find the 'keep calm and carry on' nature of the INTP to be soothing in times of emotional peril? Or do they just want someone to go all mushy on them?

 

[Blind Bandit]

This...

I find that many ENTP's tend to be very troubled people and have a hard time of working out their own emotions, yet alone acknowledging them. Unfortunately we have a habit of crossing over the boundaries when it comes to relationships. ENTP's tend learn the hard way, harsh lessons tends to make ENTP's think twice before attempting whatever it is that they are trying to do. I'm not sure if it is just me but I have the feeling that ENTP's in general lack empathy (I know I do, unfortunately ) and can come across as psychopathic.
To all INFJ's, after much introspecting, reading and observing ENTP's in general, I suggest keeping your distance. Immature ENTP's can make life a living hell. They can be extremely self centered, doing everything for themselves in mind and putting themselves and goals on top of the list of importance rather than their spouse, friends, work partner or family. As cruel as it may sound, they will not be afraid to use you as another step in the staircase in order to achieve what it is they are trying to achieve. I'm not saying that all ENTP's are like this, but allot are. ENTP's tend to be natural narcissists.

On the other hand, ENTP's can be extremely caring and considerate people and will not be afraid to put the feelings and well being of others before their own. However this is a rare find, ENTP females will be more inclined to be like this than their male counterparts, but it depends on the overall maturity of the individual.

Thankfully some ENTP's can admit this. Its these reasons that I have a lot of trouble ENTP's for those reasons.

 

[1whitehorse1]

With Magister on this.

Entp's are delightful, majestic creatures, but they tend to lack the finesse and delicacy required to maintain an INFJ.

They're like a roaring flame that will certainly burn out, and scorch many on the way. They need brave handlers I would say...


On the other hand, the more rational and less people orientated nature of the INTP might get on some INFJ's nerves, whats more, I'm not so sure an INTP would know how to cultivate an FJ mind...

Ugh, I get this problem with an INFJ lady...She'd be heartbroken, maddened, close to tears, and I'd just be having this semi-hyper fit as I explain some lovely theory or novel concept at high speeds, totally oblivious to her woes...Then when I notice them, I feel really bad for getting so distracted, but I also find that discussing them gets terribly boring, and I feel awkward trying to comfort her... instead resulting to teaching her something in the hopes it'll distract her...
She just goes 'It's okay, don't say sorry, you're a Ne dominant'

Question: Do INFJ's ever find the 'keep calm and carry on' nature of the INTP to be soothing in times of emotional peril? Or do they just want someone to go all mushy on them?

The 'keep calm and carry on' nature of the INTP, via the one I knew at a previous job (he was the IT admin guy) was very comforting seeing as how everyone else around me was always in freakout or drama mode. He would always come by my desk and we'd kill so much time just chatting about random stuff. He would also like to teach me about stuff he liked, and I enjoyed hearing about it, lol. I found him to be very thoughtful and insightful and a quick wit. We determined that it was 'us against them' (upper managment), lol. I miss him! FYI, he is happily married to an ExFx. Never met her in person so I can't deduce further.

 

[Blind Bandit]

With Magister on this.

Entp's are delightful, majestic creatures, but they tend to lack the finesse and delicacy required to maintain an INFJ.

They're like a roaring flame that will certainly burn out, and scorch many on the way. They need brave handlers I would say...


On the other hand, the more rational and less people orientated nature of the INTP might get on some INFJ's nerves, whats more, I'm not so sure an INTP would know how to cultivate an FJ mind...

Ugh, I get this problem with an INFJ lady...She'd be heartbroken, maddened, close to tears, and I'd just be having this semi-hyper fit as I explain some lovely theory or novel concept at high speeds, totally oblivious to her woes...Then when I notice them, I feel really bad for getting so distracted, but I also find that discussing them gets terribly boring, and I feel awkward trying to comfort her... instead resulting to teaching her something in the hopes it'll distract her...
She just goes 'It's okay, don't say sorry, you're a Ne dominant'

Question: Do INFJ's ever find the 'keep calm and carry on' nature of the INTP to be soothing in times of emotional peril? Or do they just want someone to go all mushy on them?

It depends. Sometimes this can be helpful but other times if your too stoic we can feel as if you don't give a shit. I tend to fall on the later. As my mom is a ESXJ and her often times emotional detachment or excess screwed me up a bit. I find a lot of NT's aren't good for telling troubles too as to many try and logic through my feelings not thats a bad thing. Its just the way you do. INFJs do logic through their feelings but they feel things first and then deal with the logic. And NTs usually tend to hold logic over everything and for me at least this makes most NTs good friends but not someone I would want to talk to my problems about.

 

[Melkor]

No?

Why wouldn't you want to find a logical solution to problems?

Surely thats more useful than pity, which solves nothing?

I often take a odd Psychiatric role with people that try to ask me for help. I deconstruct the problem and ask a lot of questions. I do, rarely resort to comforting small talk and gesture, but it feels and sounds so insincere and awkward, even when I deeply care for the person and want to help them.

 

[Blind Bandit]

No?

Why wouldn't you want to find a logical solution to problems?

Surely thats more useful than pity, which solves nothing?

I often take a odd Psychiatric role with people that try to ask me for help. I deconstruct the problem and ask a lot of questions. I do, rarely resort to comforting small talk and gesture, but it feels and sounds so insincere and awkward, even when I deeply care for the person and want to help them.

No your not getting it. A feeler type (INFJ in this case) needs to feel whatever is they are feeling and then look at things logically. You can't skip that first step for most of us. I may have a strong Ti but I need to make my Fe happy before I can deal with the problem its self.

As I said it depends on the NT and what is going on.

 

[jyrffw54]

NTs make great friends!

It really can get exhausting, feeling out your problems all the time, and NTs are always there to give that much needed shove to get you to think about why you are feeling the way you do, so you can confront it and move on with life. I also admire the blunt way they look at things and cutting to the chase.

I don't think I could be romantically involved with one though, with a few exceptions, but I honestly agree with those who say that it really depends on the two people.