Is the Ku Klux Klan an American tradition?

You throw a lot of names around yet you haven't disputed anything i say...why is that?

if you disagree with soemthing then dispute that point

prove my ignorance if you think i'm ignorant...good luck with that though...i think the best you will achieve is name calling from afar

Muir it appears that you've been very riled up the past couple days on here. You are starting to appear frantic and illogical. One example is this post. He has disputed you on several occasions. Hes said you are wrong. What are you looking for exactly in a dispute?

What i noticed is that you are unable to discus possibilities and opposing view points. Then I couple that fact with your strong feelings and views on the importance of INFJs in society. It all makes me question if you are an infj yourself. I also wonder if you are an illuminati double agent who posts "proof" that is too long to read and rants for page after page to make the theorists appear crazy.
 
Again incorrect, I have disputed the vast majority of what you have said. Yet again, you are confused.

You have not disproven ANYTHING. you have not even aimed at a single point i have made. You have simply made blanket comments about me being 'ignorant' or an 'irritation' or me being wrong and so on
 
Muir it appears that you've been very riled up the past couple days on here. You are starting to appear frantic and illogical. One example is this post. He has disputed you on several occasions. Hes said you are wrong. What are you looking for exactly in a dispute?

What i noticed is that you are unable to discus possibilities and opposing view points. Then I couple that fact with your strong feelings and views on the importance of INFJs in society. It all makes me question if you are an infj yourself. I also wonder if you are an illuminati double agent who posts "proof" that is too long to read and rants for page after page to make the theorists appear crazy.

Event horizon has said i am wrong. I am asking him to point out what i have said that is wrong

He has not singled out anything. he just makes vague blanket statements about me being 'wrong' or 'ignorant' amd i'm simply asking what points he thinks i'm wrong about....i think that's fair enough when someone calls you ignorant

Read the following post i posted earlier in the thread...it won't take you long...this is good information but what you do with it is upto you

Ask yourself what was going on in the south?

You had landowners running cotton fields where they were exploiting workers to the point of slavery

What did you have in Europe throughout the centuries? There was fuedalism where the landowners exploited the workers to the point of slavery ('serfdom')

The big landowners in europe were the vatican, the royal families (who all intermarried with each other) and the aristocracy (who also intermarried and supplied the royal stock)

These groups all worked together to maintain a social strata with the workers at the bottom tilling the fields as uneducated 'peasants'

As trade increased financial complexity increased. Christians and muslims were NOT allowed to charge interests on loans (this is called 'usury'). the only people who were not stopped by their religion from charging interest on loans were jews. This is not a racist comment against jews its simply historical fact

This is why each european royal family would have a jewish quarter in their city where they housed the jewish money changers. These money lenders lent loans to the royals of europe and to the aristocracy often in the shape of war loans to fight the many territorial disputes in european history.

Through this process of charging interest the jewish money changers became very wealthy and in the case of the rothschilds became knighted by the british royal family and accepted into the aristocracy...they all merged

The vatican too has a bank...all these groups have been controlling the land, the trade, the resources and the banking of europe for centuries

They did not turn a blind eye when the american colonies were started. They like everyone else saw the new lands as a business opportunity. They saw a vast land full of resources to be exploited whether it was land, oil, trees, furs, meat whatever and they took the land violently from the inhabitants

This network of royals, aristocracy, the vatican and the jewish bankers were all behind the slave trade. They had a triangular trade going with their cargo ships where they would sail european goods to africa to trade for slaves which they would take to the americas to be used to grow cash crops which would be taken back to Europe

Through this process the bankers and merchants grew massively wealthy and this is why countries like britain have so many grand stone buildings form this period....they are largely built off the blood and sweat of slavery

The jewish central bankers were HEAVILY involved in the slave trade at this time. The trade was protected by the crown

The network maintained their social cohesion through freemasonry which all the royals, bankers and aristocracy joined so that they could rub shoulders under one organisation and maintain their cohesion as a social and political force (you were either in the club or you weren't. If you weren't really in the club but you jopined the lodge then you weren't allowed into the prestigious lodges where the landed and monied people would meet)

The freemasons are a solar cult. They see the male penis as the microcosm of the macrocosmic sun. This is because they see man as a miniture of the universe (man was made in gods image etc). This is why women are not allowed into freemasonry...because they don't have a penis. This is why masons wear a cloth (an 'apron') over their penis because it is the holy of holies. freemasonry is a pyramidal hierarchical structure with the royals at the top of the pyramid. It aims to uphold the social structure of our society

In europe the social structure was the royals at the top then the aristocracy, then the priesthood, then the bankers and merchants, then the serfs (the wider public)

In the americas the social structure was the same. Old money exerted its influence in the americas through agents like J.P.Morgan and the Rockefellers

if you look at the catholic church, they too are a male only order who worship the sun which they veil behind the worship of jesus. They too are a solar, phallic cult and are asked to be celibate. This is why no women are allowed to be priests...because they don't have a penis

Regardless of any seeming hostility at the grass roots level between groups like the KKK and the catholic church at the top of each of those pyramids they converge...they are both on the same side. They want to maintain a social structure with the landowning class at the top exploiting the rest of humanity and stopping them from becoming educated and free
 
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Event horizon has said i am wrong. I am asking him to point out what i have said that is wrong

He has not singled out anything. he just makes vague blanket statements about me being 'wrong' or 'ignorant' amd i'm simply asking what points he thinks i'm wrong about....i think that's fair enough when someone calls you ignorant

Read the following post i posted earlier in the thread...it won't take you long...this is good information but what you do with it is upto you

Very specifically, as I have said BEFORE. You are wrong about Masons, their intent and what they are about.
 
Very specifically, as I have said BEFORE. You are wrong about Masons, their intent and what they are about.

What are the masons intent and what are they all about?
 
The evolution of the KKK is no different than the evolution of the Democratic Party. Funny coincidence though ... if you didn't know better, you would know that the KKK was BORN of the Democratic Party. Need a history lesson? ... A Sensor is here to edumacate. ;)
 
Very specifically, as I have said BEFORE. You are wrong about Masons, their intent and what they are about.
Prove it

Tell us what they are about and what their intent is and please provide evidence (not their words from their recruitment literature!) and i will provide you with evidence for my views
 
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What are the masons intent and what are they all about?

I'm going to use my own country as a case study and will give more info over time

But first i'm going to post the list of masonic grandmasters of the grand lodge of scotland. Freemasonry goes back before the foundation of the grand lodges in the early 1700's but that is when they kind of went mainstream

Please scan the list and note a couple of things about the people. Firstly that certain surnames recur, this is because there were 12 templar families in scotland who then became the main masonic families. The names of these families have been changed over time but you can with a little digging see what names have evolved into

The other thing to note is that all of the grandmasters have titles for example: 'Earl', 'sir', 'duke', 'lord', 'baron', 'viscount' etc. This is because they are either landed aristocracy or they have been knighted by the royal family

When the normans took over Britain their leaders parcelled out the land to their followers who set themselves up in castles as Barons. These families then held the land for hundreds of years. Even today in a nation of 5 million people half of scotlands land is owned by just 180 people. A guy has been compiling a map of who owns the land in scotland and there are large areas he can't find the owners for due to a law that says that if land has been in your family for over 300 years you don't need to register it in the land registry

In the UK everything for example laws, legal matters, admiralty law (commercial law) etc are all carried out in the name of 'the crown'

The royal family hand out 'honours' to people who have been good subjects for their royal domain. This gives you titles and opens doors for you and can get you a seat in the house of lords

There are also knightly orders for example the order of the garter in england and the order of the thistle in scotland which are 12 person covens of the aristocracy closest at that point to the crown

This is all tied into arthurian legends of the knights of the round table. Himmler set up a knightly order called the SS and they had their HQ in wewelsberg castle which contained a circular inner sanctum where the main 12 leaders met around a black sun set into the floor

The KKK are linked to a secretive group called the Knights of the Golden Circle who have been implicated in the assassination of President Lincoln

Lincoln had upset the international bankers because he refused to take out war loans with them to fight the american civil war. Instead he printed his own currency called the 'greenback' which he was able to control the supply of thereby avoiding incurring massive unpayable debts (like the US has today) and runaway inflation; this is why the network had him murdered

All these priveleged landowners use the same models of secret societies and knightly orders...they trace their heritage back to the crusader orders for example the knights templar which laid down the blueprint for these groups and became the worlds first international corporation (and banking powerhouse)

If you travel around the burial sites of the aristocratic families in Scotland you will find templar gravestones dating back to the 1100's-1200's followed by more recent freemasonic gravestones dating from 1600's

Anyway i could go on and on about all this but here is the list i mentioned. Please also bare in mind that the KKK is called 'klan' from the scottish word 'clan' and the scots did settle in the south of the american colonies


  1. 1736–1737: William St Clair of Roslin[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP]
  2. 1737–1738: George Mackenzie, 3rd Earl of Cromartie[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP]
  3. 1738–1739: John Keith, 3rd Earl of Kintore (G.M. of England; 1740)[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP]
  4. 1739–1740: James Douglas, 14th Earl of Morton (G.M. of England; 1741)[SUP][1][/SUP]
  5. 2008–present: Charles Ian R. Wolrige Gordon[SUP][3][/SUP]
  6. 2005–2008: Sir Archibald Donald Orr-Ewing, 6th Bt.[SUP][4][/SUP]
  7. 1916–1920: Sir Robert Gilmour, 1st Baronet[SUP][5][/SUP]
  8. 1974–1979: Robert Wolrige Gordon[SUP][6][/SUP]
those needing references


  1. 1740–1741: Thomas Lyon, 8th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne (G.M. of England; 1744)
  2. 1741–1742: Alexander Melville, 5th Earl of Leven
  3. 1742–1743: William Boyd, 4th Earl of Kilmarnock
  4. 1743–1744: James Wemyss, 5th Earl of Wemyss
  5. 1744–1745: James Stuart, 8th Earl of Moray
  6. 1745–1746: Henry Erskine, 10th Earl of Buchan
  7. 1746–1747: William Nisbet
  8. 1747–1748: The Hon. Francis Charteris (afterwards 7th Earl of Wemyss)
  9. 1748–1749: Hugh Seton
  10. 1749–1750: Thomas Erskine, Lord Erskine (Jacobite Earl of Mar)
  11. 1750–1751: Alexander Montgomerie, 10th Earl of Eglinton
  12. 1751–1752: James Hay, Lord Boyd (afterwards 15th Earl of Erroll)
  13. 1752–1753: George Drummond (Lord Provost of Edinburgh)
  14. 1753–1754: Charles Hamilton Gordon
  15. 1754–1755: James Forbes, Master of Forbes (afterwards 16th Lord Forbes)
  16. 1755–1757: Sholto Douglas, Lord Aberdour (afterwards 15th Earl of Morton) (G.M. of England; 1757-61)
  17. 1757–1759: Alexander Stewart, 6th Earl of Galloway
  18. 1759–1761: David Melville, 6th Earl of Leven
  19. 1761–1763: Charles Bruce, 5th Earl of Elgin
  20. 1763–1765: Thomas Erskine, 6th Earl of Kellie (G.M. of England-Ancients: 1760-66)
  21. 1765–1767: James Stewart (Lord Provost of Edinburgh) 1765-67
  22. 1767–1769: George Ramsay, 8th Earl of Dalhousie
  23. 1769–1771: James Adolphus Oughton
  24. 1771–1773: Patrick McDouall, 6th Earl of Dumfries
  25. 1773–1774: John Murray, 3rd Duke of Atholl (G.M. of England-Ancients 1771-74)
  26. 1774–1776: David Dalrymple (afterwards Lord Hailes)
  27. 1776–1778: Sir William Forbes, 6th Baronet
  28. 1778–1780: John Murray, 4th Duke of Atholl (G.M. of England-Ancients; 1775-81; 1791-1813)
  29. 1780–1782: Alexander Lindsay, 23rd Earl of Crawford
  30. 1782–1784: David Erskine, 11th Earl of Buchan
  31. 1784–1786: George Gordon, Lord Haddo
  32. 1786–1788: Francis Douglas, Lord Elcho (afterwards 8th Earl of Wemyss)
  33. 1788–1790: Francis Napier, 8th Lord Napier
  34. 1790–1792: George Douglas, 16th Earl of Morton
  35. 1792–1794: George Gordon, Marquess of Huntly (afterwards 5th Duke of Gordon)
  36. 1794–1796: William Kerr, Earl of Ancram (afterwards 6th Marquess of Lothian)
  37. 1796–1798: Francis Stuart, Lord Doune (afterwards 10th Earl of Moray)
  38. 1798–1800: Sir James Stirling, 1st Bt. (Lord Provost of Edinburgh)
  39. 1800–1802: Charles Montagu-Scott, Earl of Dalkeith (afterwards 4th Duke of Buccleuch)
  40. 1802–1804: George Gordon, 5th Earl of Aboyne (afterwards 9th Marquess of Huntly)
  41. 1804–1806: George Ramsay, 9th Earl of Dalhousie
  42. 1806–1820: The Prince of Wales (afterwards King George IV).
Acting Grand Masters:

  1. 1820–1822: Alexander Hamilton, 10th Duke of Hamilton
  2. 1822–1824: George Campbell, 6th Duke of Argyll
  3. 1824–1826: John Campbell, Viscount Glenorchy (afterwards 2nd Marquess of Breadalbane)
  4. 1826–1827: Thomas Hay-Drummond, 11th Earl of Kinnoull
  5. 1827–1830: Francis Wemyss-Charteris, Lord Elcho (afterwards 9th Earl of Wemyss)
  6. 1830–1832: George Kinnaird, 9th Lord Kinnaird
  7. 1832–1833: Henry Erskine, 12th Earl of Buchan 1832-3
  8. 1833–1835: William Hamilton, Marquess of Douglas (afterwards 11th Duke of Hamilton)
  9. 1835–1836: Alexander Murray, Viscount Fincastle (afterwards 6th Earl of Dunmore)
  10. 1836–1838: James Broun-Ramsay, Lord Ramsay (afterwards 1st Marquis of Dalhousie)
  11. 1838–1840: Sir James Forrest, 1st Bt. (Lord Provost of Edinburgh)
  12. 1840–1841: George Leslie, 15th Earl of Rothes
  13. 1841–1843: Lord Frederick FitzClarence
  14. 1843–1864: George Murray, Lord Glenlyon (afterwards 6th Duke of Atholl)
  15. 1864–1867: John Whyte-Melville
  16. 1867–1870: Fox Maule Ramsay, 11th Earl of Dalhousie
  17. 1870–1873: Robert St Clair-Erskine, 4th Earl of Rosslyn
  18. 1873–1882: Sir Michael Shaw-Stewart, 7th Baronet
  19. 1882–1885: Walter Erskine, 11th Earl of Mar
  20. 1885–1892: Archibald Campbell (afterwards 1st Baron Blythswood)
  21. 1892–1893: George Baillie-Hamilton, 11th Earl of Haddington
  22. 1893–1897: Sir Charles Dalrymple of Newhailes, 1st Bt.
  23. 1897–1900: Alexander Fraser, 19th Lord Saltoun
  24. 1900–1904: Hon. James Hozier (afterwards 2nd Baron Newlands)
  25. 1904–1907: Hon. Charles Maule Ramsay
  26. 1907–1909: Thomas Gibson-Carmichael (afterwards 1st Baron Carmichael) (Grand Master of Victoria, Australia, 1909-12)
  27. 1909–1913: John Stewart-Murray, Marquess of Tullibardine (afterwards 8th Duke of Atholl)
  28. 1913–1916: Robert King Stewart
  29. 1920–1921: Archibald Montgomerie, 16th Earl of Eglinton
  30. 1921–1924: Edward Bruce, 10th Earl of Elgin
  31. 1924–1926: John Dalrymple, 12th Earl of Stair
  32. 1926–1929: Archibald Douglas, 4th Baron Blythswood
  33. 1929–1931: Alexander Archibald Hagart-Speirs
  34. 1931–1933: Robert Hamilton, 11th Lord Belhaven and Stenton
  35. 1933–1935: Alexander Fraser, 20th Lord Saltoun
  36. 1935–1936: Sir Iain Colquhoun of Luss, 7th Bt.
  37. 1936–1937: The Duke of York (afterwards King George VI)
  38. 1937–1939: Sir Norman Orr-Ewing, 4th Bt.
  39. 1939–1942: Robert Balfour, Viscount Traprain (afterwards 3rd Earl of Balfour)
  40. 1942–1945: John Christie Stewart
  41. 1945–1949: Randolph Stewart, 12th Earl of Galloway
  42. 1949–1953: Malcolm Barclay-Harvey (G.M of South Australia, 1941-44)
  43. 1953–1957: Alexander Macdonald, 7th Baron Macdonald of Slate
  44. 1957–1961: Archibald Montgomerie, 17th Earl of Eglinton
  45. 1961–1965: Andrew Bruce, Lord Bruce (afterwards 11th Earl of Elgin)
  46. 1965–1969: Sir Ronald Orr-Ewing, 5th Bt.
  47. 1969–1974: David Liddell-Grainger
  48. 1979–1983: James Wilson McKay
  49. 1983–1985: J. M. Marcus Humphrey
  50. 1985–1993: Sir Gregor MacGregor, 6th Baronet
  51. 1993–1999: Michael Baillie, 3rd Baron Burton
  52. 1999–2004: Sir Archibald Orr-Ewing, 6th Bt.
  53. 2004–2005: The Very Rev. Canon Joseph Morrow
  54. 2005–2008: Sir Archibald Donald Orr-Ewing, 6th Bt.
  55. 2008-present: Charles Iain Robert Wolrige Gordon of Esslemont
 
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What are the masons intent and what are they all about?

In my words, Masons are regular people. Their organization is about recognizing each man as an equal, that each person is a needed part of a greater whole. Yes there are “levels” within Masons but its very similar to school where you learn and receive a degree of different levels as well. Also, they do a vast amount of good in the world. Check out the Shiners hospital, they are always doing charity work etc. Understand they are a very old organization and they are secretive of their meetings for a couple of reasons, back when they first began to meet it was not necessarily healthy to speak of things outside of what the rulers of the day wanted you not to talk about. A thousand years later and the at first needed secrecy is shown through the tradition of ritual, rites of passage ect. The other is that Presidents and other people with great influence in the world have been Masons in the past. Whether they attend while President I doubt. Its not something the public needs to know about either way for obvious reasons. Imagine the person that joins Masons for the sole reason of getting closer to a President etc.
My father ended up very high up. He was by no means rich. We lived in house whose walls were literally a total of 3 inches thick. A prefab house built in the 60’s. Don’t get me wrong, we were middle class but not even close to rich. He in fact spent some of his own money related to traveling for Masons. Masons are regular people who at least make the attempt to do good in the world. Something the world needs much more of.
The only other thing I will tell you that’s a bit mystical is that I believe they have the real Ark of the Covenant. I also believe I saw this ark before I knew what it was, before the Indiana Jones movie came out. I remember asking my father if I could take a closer look at it while I was 20 feet away and he said no. :)
 
[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] You never figured out you should not believe everything you read or everything you find on the internet.

.
 
@muir You never figured out you should not believe everything you read or everything you find on the internet.

.

I've already told you that my knowledge is not all from what i have read or found on the internet; you are still not proving or dissproving anything

I am not saying that all freemasons are bad i am saying that at the top of the pyramid there is an agenda that is not good for the majority of people and by that i mean very high up! Most regular masons are not privy to the agenda. Its really above the 33rd degree of the scottish rite that people are getting into the inner order

There are no doubt many decent freemasons just as there are many decent catholics but that doesn't mean that the institutions of freemasonry and the vatican don't work to maintain a social order that is harmful to the interests if the majority of people
 
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BBC documentary about freemasonry in the UK

[video=youtube;x0aAY83j54Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0aAY83j54Q[/video]
 
US congress stenographer speaks out saying 'fremasons go against god' and that you 'can't serve two masters' before she is bundled out of the house

[video=youtube;3yfOhwF0DV8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yfOhwF0DV8#t=217[/video]
 
I've already told you that my knowledge is not all from what i have read or found on the internet

I am not saying that all freemasons are bad i am saying that at the top of the pyramid there is an agenda that is not good for the majority of people and by that i mean very high up! Most regular masons are not privy to the agenda. Its really above the 33rd degree of the scottish rite that people are getting into the inner order

There are no doubt many decent freemasons just as there are many decent catholics but that doesn't mean that the institution of freemaonsry and the vatican don't work to maintain a social order that is harmful to the interests if the majority of people
My father was high enough up to fit into the catagory as someone who would have worked directly with the Vatican. However I can say he did not and I can say he was not Catholic, something I am sure the Vatican would not have tolerated if he were working at that level for them.

You can make stories up in your head, fuel them with the unknowing words of other people and brainwash yourself into believing them. Many religions have been born and survive this way.

What you dont realize is that there are things to be scared of in this life. People that would kill you for beliefs that dont make any sense to you at all. In my mind, you are one of the people that are like this.
 
British freemasonic links to child abuse in the 'Waterhouse' scandal

[video=youtube;rjSztuKnGeU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjSztuKnGeU[/video]

Part 1

[video=youtube;-xurUy2E2Bk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xurUy2E2Bk[/video]

Part 2

[video=youtube;V6OEdnl97mA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6OEdnl97mA[/video]

BBC radio interview about it:

[video=youtube;LyhJKLqXpns]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyhJKLqXpns[/video]
 
Its funny while I dont fear death any more, I do fear dying at the hands of some person killing me because I dont fit into their perception of right or wrong. I imagine being in the deep south bible belt and someone finding out I dont believe in god. And then being baptized by drowning.
 
My father was high enough up to fit into the catagory as someone who would have worked directly with the Vatican. However I can say he did not and I can say he was not Catholic, something I am sure the Vatican would not have tolerated if he were working at that level for them.

You can make stories up in your head, fuel them with the unknowing words of other people and brainwash yourself into believing them. Many religions have been born and survive this way.

What you dont realize is that there are things to be scared of in this life. People that would kill you for beliefs that dont make any sense to you at all. In my mind, you are one of the people that are like this.

Sounds like a threat to me!

There is a cross over degree that bridges the freemasons and the vatican. The knights of malta also help bridge the gap

You keep bringing up your dad in all this but i am not saying anything bad about your dad....he is probably just anothert administrative level mason who helps with the running of the lodge in an organisational capacity. Did your dad get his 33rd degree?
 
Its funny while I dont fear death any more, I do fear dying at the hands of some person killing me because I dont fit into their perception of right or wrong. I imagine being in the deep south bible belt and someone finding out I dont believe in god. And then being baptized by drowning.

I am speaking out non violently; you are the one who is sounding threatening (speaking about murder and 'drowning' etc)

I have consistently spoken out against violent solutions and against war

The freemasons however promise violence on each other in their oaths if they betray their brethren

Imagine that...you join a group who don't tell you at first what the group stands for but threaten you at every stage that if at any point in the future you decide that you no longer agree with the group and its plans you agree to your ex-brethren slitting your throat if you ever criticise or tell its secrets!

Well i have sworn no oaths. i am a free man upon this earth with a free soul. Neither my body or soul belong to any earthly order and i will speak out about what different groups are doing

I'm not going to stop speaking out because you are making veiled threats
 
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