Britain is one of the most multi-ethnic countries on the planet. This is not a 'white country'. Why do you insist on viewing the world and differing political opinions based on the colour of people's skin? It amounts to nothing but verbal diarrhea when you combine a false vision of a country thousands of miles away from you and then proceed to call this a victory for nationalism. The vote has nothing to do with English/British nationalism; it's about democracy and disaffection with taxation without representation. People in Britain of every ethnicity and background have voted to leave the EU. You are basically proving yourself to be no better than the people you claim to despise with such mental gymnastics.
It's official: Brexit is Here
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Britain is one of the most multi-ethnic countries on the planet. This is not a 'white country'. Why do you insist on viewing the world and differing political opinions based on the colour of people's skin? It amounts to nothing but verbal diarrhea when you combine a false vision of a country thousands of miles away from you and then proceed to call this a victory for nationalism. The vote has nothing to do with English/British nationalism; it's about democracy and disaffection with taxation without representation. People in Britain of every ethnicity and background have voted to leave the EU. You are basically proving yourself to be no better than the people you claim to despise with such mental gymnastics.
Elegant Winter
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"Britain is one of the most multi-ethnic countries on the planet. This is not a 'white country'."
Looks pretty white to me.
"Why do you insist on viewing the world and differing political opinions based on the colour of people's skin?"
Not only is race very strongly correlated with IQ, crime, education levels, etc, racial demographics are a strong predictor in politics. For example, in the United States, blacks overwhelming vote democrat and something like ninety eight percent of blacks voted for Obama the first time around. Also, eighty percent of non-white immigrants vote democrat in the United States. If nothing else, it's obvious that race is a large part of any political discussion.
"The vote has nothing to do with English/British nationalism; it's about democracy and disaffection with taxation without representation."
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/yes-to-brexit-213984
"Brexit and the Case for Modern Nationalism"
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-leave-commentary-idUSKCN0ZB05Y
"Harold Evans: Post Brexit, Britain still torn between nationalism and global leadership"
http://www.npr.org/2016/06/25/48340...ionalist-movements-gain-momentum-around-world
"From 'Brexit' To Trump, Nationalist Movements Gain Momentum Around World"
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/20/opinion/nationalism-and-the-brexit-vote.html?_r=0
"Nationalism and the Brexit Vote"
ANYWAY, the list goes on and on and on.
You see, friend, nationalism is opposed to globalism and the EU - a superstate with great power over individual nations - was a very large step toward globalism. It's natural that individual nations whose identity, freedom and self-determination have been diminished by it will eventually attempt to re-assert themselves. That's what we call nationalism.
People in Britain of every ethnicity and background have voted to leave the EU.
Could you show me some statistics, please? Even if you do manage to find some, it will only show that minorities mostly want to remain and whites mostly want to leave.
"You are basically proving yourself to be no better than the people you claim to despise with such mental gymnastics."
What does this even mean? Could you clarify?
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"Britain is one of the most multi-ethnic countries on the planet. This is not a 'white country'."
Looks pretty white to me.
"Why do you insist on viewing the world and differing political opinions based on the colour of people's skin?"
Not only is race very strongly correlated with IQ, crime, education levels, etc, racial demographics are a strong predictor in politics. For example, blacks overwhelming vote democrat and something like ninety eight percent of blacks voted for Obama the first time around. Non-white immigrants vote democrat eighty percent of the time in the United States. If nothing else, it's obvious that race is a large part of any political discussion.
"The vote has nothing to do with English/British nationalism; it's about democracy and disaffection with taxation without representation."
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/yes-to-brexit-213984
"Brexit and the Case for Modern Nationalism"
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-leave-commentary-idUSKCN0ZB05Y
"Harold Evans: Post Brexit, Britain still torn between nationalism and global leadership"
http://www.npr.org/2016/06/25/48340...ionalist-movements-gain-momentum-around-world
"From 'Brexit' To Trump, Nationalist Movements Gain Momentum Around World"
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/20/opinion/nationalism-and-the-brexit-vote.html?_r=0
"Nationalism and the Brexit Vote"
ANYWAY, the list goes on and on and on.
You see, friend, nationalism is opposed to globalism and the EU - being a superstate with great power over individual nations - was a very large step toward globalism. It's natural that individual nations whose identity, freedom and self-determination have been diminished by the superstate will eventually attempt to re-assert themselves. That's what we call nationalism.
People in Britain of every ethnicity and background have voted to leave the EU.
Could you show me some statistics, please? Even if you do manage to find some, it will only show that minorities mostly want to remain and whites mostly want to leave.
"You are basically proving yourself to be no better than the people you claim to despise with such mental gymnastics."
What does this even mean? Could you clarify?
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/
In terms of political polls, the Ashcroft ones are the gold standard and very detailed. Take a look.
I didn't say the majority of coloured people voted to leave, I said that all people of all backgrounds voted to leave. You continue to make something out of nothing. Why is colour such a big issue for you?
The white vote was almost split: 53% leave to 47% remain.
I'm not particularly interested in discussing ethnicity to such an extent, because I often see no reason to play politics with people's born identity that they didn't choose in the first place. But I am sure you will find a way of suggesting I don't have enough statistics. I couldn't give a toss.
P.S. - I suggest you find better sources than Wikipedia. They're not even a legitimate source; simply a market for different sources from other internet locations.
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ImaginaryBloke
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California will be wanting loads of federal money after the Big One strikes. I think that California is safe and secure. Rumor has it that Texas is leaving, called Texit. Texan mythology states that it was once upon a time an independent nation.
brightmoon
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[MENTION=13855]JJJA[/MENTION] I cannot and will not let these distortions of the truth stand. I had hoped that someone living in the UK would challenge you, but I guess that task falls onto me.
Jo Cox was murdered for a reason and that reason was her beliefs and portraying this crime as a random murder by a deranged psychopath is disingenuous at best. She was murdered during the Brexit campaign by a deranged a person whose passions were inflamed by the rhetoric coming from the Leave side. Words have consequences. The psychology of Thomas Mair and Robert Dear (the man who recently killed 3 people at a Planned Parenthood Center in Colorado) are very similar. Robert Dear believed the rhetoric coming out of the "pro-life side" of the abortion and took it to its extreme. Thomas Mair also found resonance and support for his actions in the rhetoric coming from the Leave side. We don't have to wonder what he meant when he yelled "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain". The Leave side bears some degree of moral culpability for her murder.
The Leave side ran a campaign that was all things to all people. Some people thought they were voting against globalization and for the working class to stick it the elites. Some people thought they were voting to keep Muslims out of the UK. Some people thought they were voting to keep EU from interfering in British affairs. This is problem with referendums. Everything gets boils to a yes or no answer, no subtleties, and yet the vote means different things to different people and is interpreted in different ways. In some ways Leave ran a brilliant campaign similar to Trump's. What Trump says doesn't mean anything -- its the feeling of taking back control that has been lost. The experts are held in disdain and passionate people who boil things down to simple solutions are held in high regard. If the recession starts (and many believe this will happen) no one is responsible. The Brexiters will always have an excuse. someone else to blame.
You say Britain will remain will tightly linked to the EU [MENTION=13855]JJJA[/MENTION] but you don't know that and you don't know how tightly linked. How will trade be impacted? Will the Europeans now behave rationally when the negations start? Then there are all the unintended consequences of the Brexit, starting with Scotland and Northern Ireland. This has given fresh fuel to the SNP and could very well lead to dissolution of the UK. Where does that lead? What about Northern Ireland? Does this lead a renewal of sectarian violence there now that the border is likely to closed?
Brexit does prevail and you guys have made your bed, now you have to lie in it.
Jo Cox was murdered for a reason and that reason was her beliefs and portraying this crime as a random murder by a deranged psychopath is disingenuous at best. She was murdered during the Brexit campaign by a deranged a person whose passions were inflamed by the rhetoric coming from the Leave side. Words have consequences. The psychology of Thomas Mair and Robert Dear (the man who recently killed 3 people at a Planned Parenthood Center in Colorado) are very similar. Robert Dear believed the rhetoric coming out of the "pro-life side" of the abortion and took it to its extreme. Thomas Mair also found resonance and support for his actions in the rhetoric coming from the Leave side. We don't have to wonder what he meant when he yelled "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain". The Leave side bears some degree of moral culpability for her murder.
The Leave side ran a campaign that was all things to all people. Some people thought they were voting against globalization and for the working class to stick it the elites. Some people thought they were voting to keep Muslims out of the UK. Some people thought they were voting to keep EU from interfering in British affairs. This is problem with referendums. Everything gets boils to a yes or no answer, no subtleties, and yet the vote means different things to different people and is interpreted in different ways. In some ways Leave ran a brilliant campaign similar to Trump's. What Trump says doesn't mean anything -- its the feeling of taking back control that has been lost. The experts are held in disdain and passionate people who boil things down to simple solutions are held in high regard. If the recession starts (and many believe this will happen) no one is responsible. The Brexiters will always have an excuse. someone else to blame.
You say Britain will remain will tightly linked to the EU [MENTION=13855]JJJA[/MENTION] but you don't know that and you don't know how tightly linked. How will trade be impacted? Will the Europeans now behave rationally when the negations start? Then there are all the unintended consequences of the Brexit, starting with Scotland and Northern Ireland. This has given fresh fuel to the SNP and could very well lead to dissolution of the UK. Where does that lead? What about Northern Ireland? Does this lead a renewal of sectarian violence there now that the border is likely to closed?
Brexit does prevail and you guys have made your bed, now you have to lie in it.
Elegant Winter
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"Two thirds (67%) of those describing themselves as Asian voted to remain, as did three quarters (73%) of black voters. Nearly six in ten (58%) of those describing themselves as Christian voted to leave; seven in ten Muslims voted to remain."
From your link.
"I'm not particularly interested in discussing ethnicity to such an extent, because I often see no reason to play politics with people's born identity that they didn't choose in the first place. But I am sure you will find a way of suggesting I don't have enough statistics. I couldn't give a toss."
Isn't it wonderful that foreigners have such power over the fate of your country? If you lived in the United States you could fully appreciate this, since the United States is now less than sixty percent white. It was around ninety percent white for most of its existence and it wasn't until 1965 (the Immigration and Nationality Act) that the demographics started to change so drastically.
What many people tragically fail to realize - and it's sad that I have to repeat this over and over again - is that demographics determine policy. If your country were suddenly half Arab (almost all of which are Muslim) what do you think would happen? If your country were suddenly half African what do you think would happen? Many, many, many changes, right? In short, your country would cease to be your country and whatever laws, institutions, cultures, religions, etc, that define it would cease to define it. This is what's happening to every Western country - except slowly, incrementally.
When you talk about race and ethnicity as if they're meaningless or non-existent you're doing a severe injustice to reality.
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Lavendel
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You have no clue what this country is like so how dare you tell British people what their country is like. You and your rasism is completely irrelevant and YOU are what you call "a severe injustice to reality". The UK is built and made by multiculturalism and without the influence of the many nationalities it would never have become the strong economy and country as it was. We are humans, skin colour and religion are irrelevant to our small existance on this tiny planet, and I grieve how this is being forgotten by more and more people. What we should be focusing on is our strength in our differences and what can be shared and taught among one another, not the separation, mistrust and hatred by our petty idealisms.
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Texas will be the first.
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elitist jibberish
So what you are effectively saying it somewhere that predominately identifies as non white/British would vote Remain?
Lets have a look at Slough then, according to the 2011 census:
45.7% of the population was White (34.5% White British, 1.1% White Irish, 0.2% Gypsy or Irish Traveller, 9.9% Other White), 3.4% of mixed race (1.2% White and Black Caribbean, 0.4% White and Black African, 1.0% White and Asian, 0.8% Other Mixed), 39.7% Asian (17.7% Pakistani, 15.6% Indian, 0.4% Bangladeshi, 0.6% Chinese, 5.4% Other Asian), 8.6% Black (5.4% African, 2.2% Caribbean, 1.0% Other Black), 0.7% Arab and 1.9% of other ethnic heritage
That's 54.3% is non white + 11.2% for non White British
So 65.5% of Slough is non white/British
Can you guess how they voted?
Elegant Winter
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So what you are effectively saying it somewhere that predominately identifies as non white/British would vote Remain?
Lets have a look at Slough then, according to the 2011 census:
45.7% of the population was White (34.5% White British, 1.1% White Irish, 0.2% Gypsy or Irish Traveller, 9.9% Other White), 3.4% of mixed race (1.2% White and Black Caribbean, 0.4% White and Black African, 1.0% White and Asian, 0.8% Other Mixed), 39.7% Asian (17.7% Pakistani, 15.6% Indian, 0.4% Bangladeshi, 0.6% Chinese, 5.4% Other Asian), 8.6% Black (5.4% African, 2.2% Caribbean, 1.0% Other Black), 0.7% Arab and 1.9% of other ethnic heritage
That's 54.3% is non white + 11.2% for non White British
So 65.5% of Slough is non white/British
Can you guess how they voted?
Look at the overall statistics. They're in accord with what I've said.
Also, it's possible that many more whites voted than non-whites in Slough. There are a lot of things that could've happened, but generally racial demographics (and other demographics) are a strong predictor.
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There's a lot of people in denial about the referendum result. AND a lot of very angry butthurt.
I do so love Brexit... and this thread.
I think the best thing now would be for people to come out of denial, stop attacking and belittling the winners, accept being losers, stop having hate tantrums, stop playing the martyr, and deal with it; IT'S OFFICIAL, BREXIT IS HERE.
I do so love Brexit... and this thread.
I think the best thing now would be for people to come out of denial, stop attacking and belittling the winners, accept being losers, stop having hate tantrums, stop playing the martyr, and deal with it; IT'S OFFICIAL, BREXIT IS HERE.
Skarekrow
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Excuse me...IMHO there are very few people who just “want free stuff” or is under that illusion you think some people are.
People want their tax money that is collected from their paychecks to go to programs they deem more important than corporate interests which are usually at odds with the health and/or safety of the people...whatever makes the most money.
How much of our taxes does the military just fucking waste...it’s pathetic.
People are getting screwed over by everyone who wants to squeeze a buck out of them...even their own employers.
[video=youtube;zbH66lGRfiI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbH66lGRfiI[/video]
It’s now broken the 300 to 1 ratio.
It’s taking people’s Social Security that they have paid into their whole lives which had laws protecting the government from borrowing from it...Reagan ruined that.
Now it’s not doing so hot, not to mention people have to retire later and later and later in life which stifles the job market.
Don’t misrepresent and group everyone under the blanket title of “liberal”...people have wide ranges of political viewpoints some of which maybe one way and some of which may be the other.
ImaginaryBloke
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The divorce negotiations will take two years. It will be like slow Chinese water torture. :yuck: :yawn: :bored:
Krypton
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I mean, the UK already has an alliance with NAFTA members, and the US at least operates under free trade as a principle. Why do you, if you do think the negotiations will go poorly?
brightmoon
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[MENTION=14785]In the Wings[/MENTION] why would anyone give favourable terms to get access to a relatively small market?
Elegant Winter
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Rude.
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Have you considered that "non-whites" are given less opportunities by bigoted "white" people...but from your previous post I would guess that you probably think that it's ok to treat "white" people as if they are superior.
Some of the hardest working and best people I know come from some of the groups your post mentions. I would rather hire an appreciative immigrant than a smug "white" who feels entitled simply because of their skin colour.
Elegant Winter
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It's easier to trust people who are like you. It's easier to find comfort in their presence and share the daily happenings of life with them. It's easier to talk to them and get along with them. It's all easier when there are higher levels of commonality; when they share your religion, your language, your culture, your collective identity.
I would hire another white person over a Pakistani in a heartbeat and I wouldn't feel remotely bad about it either.
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