It's official: Brexit is Here

[La Sagna]

It's easier to trust people who are like you. It's easier to find comfort in their presence and share the daily happenings of life with them. It's easier to talk to them and get along with them. It's all easier when there are higher levels of commonality; when they share your religion, your language, your culture, your identity.

I would hire another white person over a Pakistani in a heartbeat and I wouldn't feel remotely bad about it either.

I know it is for most people who have a hard time getting past narrow mindedness and unfounded fear. I'm as white as you can get but I don't isolate myself and I give everyone a chance and in my personal experience most immigrants are so appreciative at having been given a chance that they will easily outwork a native-born "white" person.

I've always been grateful for being Canadian but this year I am more grateful than ever, while the rest of World seems to be veering towards the politics of fear and xenophobia we have moved further away from it.

 

[Elegant Winter]

I know it is for most people who have a hard time getting past narrow mindedness and unfounded fear. I'm as white as you can get but I don't isolate myself and I give everyone a chance and in my personal experience most immigrants are so appreciative at having been given a chance that they will easily outwork a native-born "white" person.

I've always been grateful for being Canadian but this year I am more grateful than ever, while the rest of World seems to be veering towards the politics of fear and xenophobia we have moved further away from it.

Yes, I'm narrow-minded and xenophobic. I am many awful things, but at least I'm genuine.

 

[brightmoon]

Yes, I'm narrow-minded and xenophobic. I am many awful things, but at least I'm genuine.

Genuinely wrong. Jihadists and many extreme fundamentalist Christians are genuine in their belief that woman should perform no function in society other than baby making machines, for example, does that make them right?

Further to this point why are your beliefs automatically more genuine than someone who holds the opposite view? I don't understand the logic there

 

[koizora]

Isn't it wonderful that foreigners have such power over the fate of your country? If you lived in the United States you could fully appreciate this, since the United States is now less than sixty percent white. It was around ninety percent white for most of its existence and it wasn't until 1965 (the Immigration and Nationality Act) that the demographics started to change so drastically.

What many people tragically fail to realize - and it's sad that I have to repeat this over and over again - is that demographics determine policy. If your country were suddenly half Arab (almost all of which are Muslim) what do you think would happen? If your country were suddenly half African what do you think would happen? Many, many, many changes, right? In short, your country would cease to be your country and whatever laws, institutions, cultures, religions, etc, that define it would cease to define it. This is what's happening to every Western country - except slowly, incrementally.

When you talk about race and ethnicity as if they're meaningless or non-existent you're doing a severe injustice to reality.

I'm not going to contribute much to this thread since I'm not 100% up to date with the facts about Brexit, but I could not help myself commenting on your post.

I hope you do realize that the land before the founding of the United States originally wasn't a white country, and what you're so afraid of happening is exactly what white people did in your country, and even worse. This post of yours sounded kind of hypocritical.. Most foreigners nowadays have to adjust to the culture of the country they decided to live in, it's a small number that doesn't. They don't overthrow it like white people did to the Native Americans.

I kind of do see where you're coming from- a massive influx of people from a different culture would definitely mean a change in demographics, and certain things will change. I admit I've already seen things changing in my own country. However, the government could make it so that the country can keep its own culture while implementing good elements from subcultures.

 

[Elegant Winter]

Genuinely wrong. Jihadists and many extreme fundamentalist Christians are genuine in their belief that woman should perform no function in society other than baby making machines, for example, does that make them right?

Further to this point why are your beliefs automatically more genuine than someone who holds the opposite view? I don't understand the logic there

"Genuinely wrong. Jihadists and many extreme fundamentalist Christians are genuine in their belief that woman should perform no function in society other than baby making machines, for example, does that make them right?"

It's obvious that women need to have children. A society would simply cease to be were they all to stop. Like, there wouldn't be any people. So, I think it should be the priority of women to have children, yes; just as it should be the priority of men to work or defend their community or nation. These are necessary compromises for the continuation of a society. It's strategy.

Ideally baby-making/child-rearing would be culturally reinforced, as it was when Christianity was at the center of Western culture. Since that's no longer the case, and other forces such as feminism have come along, fertility rates across the board are plummeting and the population of the West is shrinking. It's clear that this is an enormous problem that needs to solved. If it isn't Western society will eventually fade into obscurity, then into complete irrelevance.

This isn't happening in Africa though, since they're still spiritually in the Bronze Age. Africa's population is projected to be five billion, and Nigeria's population specifically will exceed the entire population of Europe, by the end of the century. Ouch, right?

Fertility rates are extremely important and a society either works together or it fails.

Further to this point why are your beliefs automatically more genuine than someone who holds the opposite view? I don't understand the logic there.

Most leftists are automatons who are not even remotely genuine. What they do is shape their beliefs and personalities to reflect the liberal/progressive/globalist ideology in an effort to advance themselves socially. It's filthy and disgusting. They're often also very similar to one another as a result.

 

[Asa]

Most Leftists are automatons who are not even remotely genuine. What they do is shape their beliefs and personalities to reflect the liberal/progressive/globalist ideology. They're hollow robots who adopt the most popular/culturally reinforced beliefs to advance themselves socially. It's filthy and disgusting. They're also almost all extremely similar.

This is an ill-informed, propaganda-fed opinion that serves no purpose except to cause anger and polarize the people on the forum.
If you want people who don't already agree with you to take you seriously, and take the time to read your posts, and care about what you are saying, try to leave this manure out of the discussion.

BTW, liberals think the exact same thing about "conservatives".

 

[La Sagna]

"Genuinely wrong. Jihadists and many extreme fundamentalist Christians are genuine in their belief that woman should perform no function in society other than baby making machines, for example, does that make them right?"

It's obvious that women need to have children. A society would simply cease to be were they all to stop. Like, there wouldn't be any people. So, I think it should be the priority of women to have children, yes; just as it should be the priority of men to work or defend their community or nation. These are necessary compromises for the continuation of a society. It's strategy.

Ideally baby-making/child-rearing would be culturally reinforced, as it was when Christianity was at the center of Western culture. Since that's no longer the case, and other forces such as feminism have come along, fertility rates across the board are plummeting and the population of the West is shrinking. It's clear that this is an enormous problem that needs to solved. If it isn't Western society will eventually fade into obscurity, then into complete irrelevance.

This isn't happening in Africa though, since they're still spiritually in the Bronze Age. Africa's population is projected to be five billion, and Nigeria's population specifically will exceed the entire population of Europe, by the end of the century. Ouch, right?

Fertility rates are extremely important and a society either works together or it fails.

Further to this point why are your beliefs automatically more genuine than someone who holds the opposite view? I don't understand the logic there.

Most Leftists are automatons who are not even remotely genuine. What they do is shape their beliefs and personalities to reflect the liberal/progressive/globalist ideology. They're hollow robots who adopt the most popular/culturally reinforced beliefs to advance themselves socially. It's filthy and disgusting. They're also almost all extremely similar.

Are you not suggesting under one hand that women should be culturally enforced baby making robots with no choice while then criticising 'left-wing' people for being robots for adopting 'culturally reinforced' beliefs?
Seems to me you would just like your personal beliefs to be culturally enforced and you dislike the fact that most of modern society disagrees with you. I'm quite sure that Africans are less in the Bronze age than you are.

 

[brightmoon]

This isn't happening in Africa though, since they're still spiritually in the Bronze Age. Africa's population is projected to be five billion, and Nigeria's population specifically will exceed the entire population of Europe, by the end of the century. Ouch, right?

Fertility rates are extremely important and a society either works together or it fails.

In Africa the family is a unit of production not consumption which is the main motivator for larger families, in other words, people have children to help with the work. Lack of pension plans and social security is the other major factor, as people need children to look after them in their old age. As societies become more developed, fertility rates naturally fall. These basic economic realities explain people's motivation far more completely than ideologies or religion.

Most Leftists are automatons who are not even remotely genuine. What they do is shape their beliefs and personalities to reflect the liberal/progressive/globalist ideology. They're hollow robots who adopt the most popular/culturally reinforced beliefs to advance themselves socially. It's filthy and disgusting. They're also almost all extremely similar.

These are value judgments, they have no basis in fact, and could be said about anyone who holds any ideology, including the one you espouse.

 

[Elegant Winter]

I'm not going to contribute much to this thread since I'm not 100% up to date with the facts about Brexit, but I could not help myself commenting on your post.

I hope you do realize that the land before the founding of the United States originally wasn't a white country, and what you're so afraid of happening is exactly what white people did in your country, and even worse. This post of yours sounded kind of hypocritical.. Most foreigners nowadays have to adjust to the culture of the country they decided to live in, it's a small number that doesn't. They don't overthrow it like white people did to the Native Americans.

I kind of do see where you're coming from- a massive influx of people from a different culture would definitely mean a change in demographics, and certain things will change. I admit I've already seen things changing in my own country. However, the government could make it so that the country can keep its own culture while implementing good elements from subcultures.

I hope you do realize that the land before the founding of the United States originally wasn't a white country, and what you're so afraid of happening is exactly what white people did in your country, and even worse. This post of yours sounded kind of hypocritical.. Most foreigners nowadays have to adjust to the culture of the country they decided to live in, it's a small number that doesn't. They don't overthrow it like white people did to the Native Americans.

"The Native Americans didn't have any rights to the land and there was no reason for anyone to grant them rights which they had not conceived and were not using. What was it they were fighting for, if they opposed white men on this continent? For their wish to continue a primitive existence, their 'right' to keep part of the earth untouched, unused and not even as property, just keep everybody out so that you will live practically like an animal, or maybe a few caves above it. Any white person who brought the element of civilization had the right to take over this continent." - Ayn Rand

I think Ayn Rand conveys this well and I agree with her.

The Native Americans had no civilization; they had no concept of country or nation; they had no concept of law. Also, you imply that Westerners should simply hand their civilization to the third world because Europeans conquered the Native Americans centuries ago. That's absurd.

I kind of do see where you're coming from- a massive influx of people from a different culture would definitely mean a change in demographics, and certain things will change. I admit I've already seen things changing in my own country. However, the government could make it so that the country can keep its own culture while implementing good elements from subcultures.

I don't think the government has any interest in doing that currently, but I'm glad you're honest about the observations you're making.

 

[Elegant Winter]

Wow, this thread is wonderfully active.

I have to eat dinner though.

 

[koizora]

I hope you do realize that the land before the founding of the United States originally wasn't a white country, and what you're so afraid of happening is exactly what white people did in your country, and even worse. This post of yours sounded kind of hypocritical.. Most foreigners nowadays have to adjust to the culture of the country they decided to live in, it's a small number that doesn't. They don't overthrow it like white people did to the Native Americans.

"The Native Americans didn't have any rights to the land and there was no reason for anyone to grant them rights which they had not conceived and were not using. What was it they were fighting for, if they opposed white men on this continent? For their wish to continue a primitive existence, their 'right' to keep part of the earth untouched, unused and not even as property, just keep everybody out so that you will live practically like an animal, or maybe a few caves above it. Any white person who brought the element of civilization had the right to take over this continent." - Ayn Rand

I think Ayn Rand conveys this well and I agree with her.

The Native Americans had no civilization; they had no concept of country or nation; they no concept of law. Also, you imply that Westerners should simply hand their civilization to the third world because Europeans conquered the Native Americans centuries ago. That's absurd.

I kind of do see where you're coming from- a massive influx of people from a different culture would definitely mean a change in demographics, and certain things will change. I admit I've already seen things changing in my own country. However, the government could make it so that the country can keep its own culture while implementing good elements from subcultures.

I don't think the government has any interest in doing that currently, but I'm glad your honest about the observations you're making.

I don't agree with Ayn Rand and with you. That kind of mindset seems like mere arrogance to me, thinking that white people with their more advanced civilization had the right to take over that land.

Also, nowhere did I imply that Westerners should hand over their civilization because of that. I only pointed out the hypocrisy of your post.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Ok, sorry for being off-topic guys.

 

[Elegant Winter]

This is an ill-informed, propaganda-fed opinion that serves no purpose except to cause anger and polarize the people on the forum.
If you want people who don't already agree with you to take you seriously, and take the time to read your posts, and care about what you are saying, try to leave this manure out of the discussion.

BTW, liberals think the exact same thing about "conservatives".

This is an ill-informed, propaganda-fed opinion that serves no purpose except to cause anger and polarize the people on the forum.

I don't think so. I think it's the truth. Anyway, many things have been said to me that were intended "cause anger and polarize the people on the forum," but no one chastised the people who said those things. I wonder why. Could it be that you and others think I am deserving of insults and criticism? Virtue signalling leftists definitely aren't though, right? They're perfectly moral and innocent and anyone who criticizes them is automatically wrong!!

If you want people who don't already agree with you to take you seriously, and take the time to read your posts, and care about what you are saying, try to leave this manure out of the discussion.

About ninety-nine percent of what I've typed on this forum has been to the point. That comment included, for the most part. Yes, it was inflammatory, but it was also my honest opinion. I didn't make it personal or insult anyone in particular, did I? No, I answered the question. If he takes it personally, so be it.

Once again though, you should be speaking to others before speaking to me about this. I'm not a particularly notable offender.

BTW, liberals think the exact same thing about "conservatives".

Well, the difference is Christians, traditionalists, nationalists, isolationists, etc, are right and the Left is wrong. The Right typically believes in tried and true ideologies, the Left typically does not. So, when a rightist is blindly adhering to an ideology at least it's much more likely they're blindly adhering to a functional one and not one characterized by idealism and willful ignorance.

Also, the dominant forces in society are liberal/progressive, not conservative.

 

[Elegant Winter]

Are you not suggesting under one hand that women should be culturally enforced baby making robots with no choice while then criticising 'left-wing' people for being robots for adopting 'culturally reinforced' beliefs?
Seems to me you would just like your personal beliefs to be culturally enforced and you dislike the fact that most of modern society disagrees with you. I'm quite sure that Africans are less in the Bronze age than you are.

Are you not suggesting under one hand that women should be culturally enforced baby making robots with no choice while then criticising 'left-wing' people for being robots for adopting 'culturally reinforced' beliefs?

No, I'm saying it's imperative that women have children and prioritize baby-making/child-rearing. Prioritize. Just as it's imperative that men build houses or defend a nation. The difference is function. Women must have children; society will fail if they don't. Leftists don't have to believe the nonsense they do. They choose to because the liberal/progressive ideology is trendy and they want to be popular and advance themselves socially. The difference is function. One is necessary for the success of a society, the other is self-serving individualism/hedonism.

If they were adopting beliefs that lead to highly functional societies I would not be in disagreement with them, but they're not. They're adopting beliefs that divide and destroy society.

Seems to me you would just like your personal beliefs to be culturally enforced and you dislike the fact that most of modern society disagrees with you. I'm quite sure that Africans are less in the Bronze age than you are.

I want functional and strategically sound beliefs to be culturally reinforced. Also, modern Western society is failing so I hope it disagrees with me.

 

[Elegant Winter]

In Africa the family is a unit of production not consumption which is the main motivator for larger families, in other words, people have children to help with the work. Lack of pension plans and social security is the other major factor, as people need children to look after them in their old age. As societies become more developed, fertility rates naturally fall. These basic economic realities explain people's motivation far more completely than ideologies or religion.

These are value judgments, they have no basis in fact, and could be said about anyone who holds any ideology, including the one you espouse.

You've made like a hundred of them about me and my beliefs though?

 

[j654dgj7]

im so glad ive stayed out of this one.

... oh no.

 

[Asa]

I don't think so. I think it's the truth.

That's the core of it: You think so. You think it is the truth. Your thoughts are not truth, they are merely thoughts.

 

[Asa]

PS: Personally, Elegant Winter, ENTJ-A, I resent that you are steamrolling the INFJ forum with your bigoted, xenophobic and narrow-minded attitude, thus making it look like the INFJ forum at large is comfortable with this point of view and that INFJs may be like this in general. You've littered several threads with your hatred vomit, much of it nonsense, such as your "liberals and sex with extra terrestrials" rant.

INFJs are a diverse people. There are plenty of conservatives here that add to the conversation, enrich the forums, make us all think, whom I (a left-wing person - but not by any means a DEM) respect, whose opinions I may agree with at times, but you are making the forum look like the neo-Sturmabteilung.
I don't even know why you are here, except to bully us because INFJs are typically so easy-going. INFJs also have strong morals. I'd rather make it known that I dislike you and resent your non-stop broadcasting of hatred under the INFJ banner than be mistaken for a fascist.


I'll take the damn infraction or banning. This is no longer a safe environment to discuss INFJ topics anyway.

 

[Skarekrow]

Well, the difference is Christians, traditionalists, nationalists, isolationists, etc, are right and the Left is wrong. The Right typically believes in tried and true ideologies, the Left typically does not. So, when a rightist is blindly adhering to an ideology at least it's much more likely they're blindly adhering to a functional one and not one characterized by idealism and willful ignorance.

Also, the dominant forces in society are liberal/progressive, not conservative.

You have some proof to those claims of who you’re so sure is right and wrong?
Because I can show you lots of proof otherwise if you would like.
But my guess is you wouldn’t bother to read them as they would be in opposition to your personal point of view...yes?
You already have it figured out then and don’t need further information...especially if you disagree with it, because then it must be wrong for sure.
So if you are unwilling to examine factual evidence contrary to your views, then any commentary you make is just to start and continue to argue and rile people up.

It’s like arguing with a blind person that the sky is blue.

 

[Elegant Winter]

PS: Personally, Elegant Winter, ENTJ-A, I resent that you are steamrolling the INFJ forum with your bigoted, xenophobic and narrow-minded attitude, thus making it look like the INFJ forum at large is comfortable with this point of view and that INFJs may be like this in general. You've littered several threads with your hatred vomit, much of it nonsense, such as your "liberals and sex with extra terrestrials" rant.

INFJs are a diverse people. There are plenty of conservatives here that add to the conversation, enrich the forums, make us all think, whom I (a left-wing person - but not by any means a DEM) respect, whose opinions I may agree with at times, but you are making the forum look like the neo-Sturmabteilung.
I don't even know why you are here, except to bully us because INFJs are typically so easy-going. INFJs also have strong morals. I'd rather make it known that I dislike you and resent your non-stop broadcasting of hatred under the INFJ banner than be mistaken for a fascist.

I'll take the damn infraction or banning. This is no longer a safe environment to discuss INFJ topics anyway.

What? Do you not like diversity or something?

 

[brightmoon]

You've made like a hundred of them about me and my beliefs though?

You are not even able to defend your beliefs. There no evidence for how you feel, you just feel it. You can say things like

modern Western society is failing

and just present no evidence to back it up. Nevermind that we live on most successful society on the planet and probably in human history, the one has has created more wealth, more economic opportunity, more personal freedom than any other, somehow our society is failing. Why is that? Because women are making personal choices to have 1 or 2 kids instead of 12? And this is the fault of liberals?

I would add that you are entitled to your own beliefs but you aren't entitled to your own facts. You can't just state things that are patiently untrue like:

The Native Americans had no civilization; they had no concept of country or nation; they no concept of law.

and have an expectation that people won't challenge it and just accept as truth because you say so.

One example proves that statement isn't true, and is indeed laughable. The Haudenosaunee devised the Great Law of Peace as an oral constitution which bound their nations together (also called the Six Nations of Iroquois) You can read all about it here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Law_of_Peace Certainly Benjamin Franklin knew about the Great Law of Peace and there is ample evidence it may have influence on the writing of the U.S. Constitution.

My issue is the distortion of facts in such a blatant way to support your beliefs.