Jesus is pleated and other schizotypal thoughts.

Billy said:
Oh he does not exist for me, thats for certain. I just enjoy poking holes in the fantasy.
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Take God out of the equation- the bomber who kills infidels is now just killing outsiders, heretics, or anyone who will not submit to their country; you still hate them. Now you realize its the person you hate, not the idea of why they are killing. Let religious people think what they want. There is no need to change them. You dont even offer a viable solution, just "what you think is dumb lol." Except, I see "what I think is dumb, so what you think is dumb too." I'm just playing. :)
 
Wow. Jesus is pleated...

However, I feel compelled to point out....last massacre......I would probably count 9/11 and for homegrown terrorists Oklahoma City Bombing (1995). Those white supremists and milita groups are very religious. Organized religion and violence go hand in hand, history has proven that.
 
The same is true for non-religious progressivistic beliefs when the world wars came around. That's how far progress got us.
 
The Israel/Palestine conflict is a brilliant example of a conflict that is not over religion, yet so many think it is - including many combatants themselves.

The conflict was caused, very briefly, by the end of the Ottoman Empire that Palestine had been occupied under for around 600 years. The Arabs were promised an independent Palestine in return for helping the British and Allies overthrow the Ottomans (Think: Lawrence of Arabia). The Zionist movement was a secular political movement that arose out of a rise in anti-Semitic pogroms in the Russian Empire under the Romanovs. The Zionists wanted Palestine to be a homeland for the Jewish people as a nationality/ethnic group, not primarily as a religion. They were the people without a land looking for a land without people. The land they found had people but the animosity grew gradually because of issues with land-purchasing that was facilitated by Arab landowners who didn't care if the Jewish immigrants were taking over. The sale of land drove prices up which lead to more people happily selling the land of their forefathers. The Zionists were promised the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine by the British in the Balfour Declaration.

The Balfour Declaration is clearly at odds with what was promised to the Arabs (notably led a man called Husseini). I could google and find his full name but that is what I remembered his name as since my housemate's name is Hussein. Anyway, he was pissed off because the British had reneged on their earlier agreement completely! They said that they never specifically promised Palestine and they were talking more vaguely about the Arab region and weaseled their way out of an agreement after getting what they wanted out of it.

Husseini in turn then turns to the leaders of other Arab nations and speaks to them saying that it is an insult against all Arab nations and therefore Islam. It was used totally as a political tool because the real issue was about real estate. Nice real estate, too. The cakes made from the oranges in Jaffa...tasty! The families who were affected by this wave of propaganda - I would wager these are the root of your Islamist fanatacists in the region today.

This led to the formation of terrorist and militant organisations on both sides. Neither were armies because neither had sovereignity - they were all under the British mandatory rule established by the League of Nations. The groups attacked one another and they both, at different points, attacked the British until the British left at the end of the Second world War and, after a civil war in 1948, the State of Israel was established.

To try and follow the news of it now it would appear to be groups of extremists fighting and lobbing bombs and missiles at one another. The oppressive Israeli state and the die-hard Palestinan rebels, fighting for the right to live in their religious Holy Land. It's not. The bloodshed has just begat more bloodshed and more horror because the real cause of the problem is never examined. The newest events that transpire always take precendence and there is always a new attack and a new offence and it's always in revenge meaning that they are just going to fight, die and take vengeance ad infinitum unless they know what is really at stake and what is really the issue. What really happened is so important because they are truly dying for nothing if they are dying for revenge and out of desperation.

Oh, and GOD! They did it for GOD!

But seriously, that's a really detail-lite version of events. I recommend Benny Morris's 'Righteous Victims'. I studied the topic but that book was very good and very readable for a (more) academic book.
 
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Well.....all conflict, even those designated as "religious" are more about socio-economic reasons than god (whatevah). Religion is the smoke and mirrors.
 
It's as if "religion" is a cult, which I'm sure some people would argue that. There is certainly a section of religious beliefs that I would discern as a cult, those are the ones killing and lieing for their own gain. I think I see the idea that the cult part of religion is becoming the majority, which is described in the Bible as the whore of babylon. The Bible may have been talking about Rome because it persecuted the Christians, but it is applicable today with any oppressor-- in which case some of you must be being oppressed by the cult part of religion. Regardless, it is not the religion that is persecuting you, it is the "liars, whores, and bigots." The people who wrote the Bible were going through the same stuff you may be going through right now. The persecutors filled the general populace with all sorts of lies demonizing christianity, so anywhere christians went, they were hated. Still today, even. @Billy Taking that into equation, that plays right into what the Bible says about the whore of babylon, or your vision of religion taking the world over as a false christ (even though they'd say they were really christ, right?).

Revelation: 17 said:
14“These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.” 15And he said to me, “The waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues. 16“And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire.17“For God has put it in their hearts to execute His purpose by having a common purpose, and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God will be fulfilled. 18“The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.”
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Verse 18 is of relevance, since there is a sect of christianity which is used for evil. That could be the whore of babylon, or the cult of christianity that wants for their own gain, and will kill you to get it.
 
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Stormy1 said:
Well.....all conflict, even those designated as "religious" are more about socio-economic reasons than god (whatevah). Religion is the smoke and mirrors.
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I think it depends on the religion. Just because politicians use them as a form of social control, it doesn't mean that they were conceived as such... but I do think that some religions are violent or are more likely to make people violent-- Christianity and Islam are the big ones for that. The opposite of those would be Jainism-- they're too busy trying not to hurt any insects to even think about heading off to fight for their God.
 
Billy said:
well hes not real. for starters, there isnt even any proof he ever existed.
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concrete 'real' maybe, but the idea, or the abstract christ exists, as you've shown by talking about it. the false prophet, or whore of babylon, is the concrete version of christ that is now being used in the name of god and jesus for evil.

edit: since you've such a voracious appetite for knowledge on the bible, re-read 1 and 2 Corinthians. Paul explains the idea of christ pretty well. You'll appreciate it so much more with your new awareness on the bible explaining abstract things with concrete descriptions.
 
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One thing I always find funny about the kooky modern "Christians" is how un-Christian they actually are. If the rest of your flock heard you saying this shit they would want to burn you on the stake.
 
Billy said:
One thing I always find funny about the kooky modern "Christians" is how un-Christian they actually are. If the rest of your flock heard you saying this shit they would want to burn you on the stake.
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The only flock I have would accept me for what I am.
 
Billy said:
Doubt it.
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I accept you for what you are, there are many others who do as well. I know you like to play, I do too. I seriously doubt you want to come off as an asshole, but if you really have malice towards me, I understand that as well. I wish you well on your journey.
 
Kmal said:
concrete 'real' maybe, but the idea, or the abstract christ exists, as you've shown by talking about it.
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Doesn't the 'abstract' version of anything that you could possibly imagine also exist?
 
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