Mass Shooting of Children - WTF?!?!

Actions have ripples.

In some ways, we have created numerous, numerous ripples that affected everything.
And we're facing ourselves indeed.

For what a good feeling it would be, to eliminate such unexplainable atrocities;
to explain, to understand, to judge such incomprehensibly unacceptable evil?
To protect those we love, to bring them life and to not take it from them.
To be freed from evil.

Gaze upon the void, and the void gazes back at you.

Yes, in one aspect; the outrage is one deep projection; of our insecurity, of our fear, helplessness.
And also of our potential. Shadows.
Of having it happen to us......And of doing it ourselves*.

Simply put, an attempt to aim for the moral (and definitely practical) high ground to escape the rising flood.


*) People are going to moan "I AM NOT THAT EVIL / CRAZY / INSANE." Yes; but this is like one of the darkest shade of evil exists. What about the lighter? We may not shot children with submachine guns, but how many times you have found yourself angry / pissed with someone's children?
 
What a terrible crime, my heart goes out to those affected. I read that one of the children was from the UK originally and his parents only moved to America 2 years ago. I guess there is quite a cultural difference between the US and Britain in that gun ownership is much lower here in Britain.

I really felt for Obama he struggled (understandably) to get through his speech and was clearly deeply distressed. There have been shootings in the UK, after one bad one at a school in Dunblane the law was changed to reduce and control gun ownership. I find it difficult to understand the issue of automatic or semi automatic guns, which seem to really have just one (terrible) use.

I know banning guns isn't the only answer, it's a complex issue of rights and responsibilities, violence, education, and mental health care. Still the pragmatist side of my nature can't help but think making ownership and control of automatic weapons tighter, should reduce the likelihood and occurrence of such incidents. From what I can gather the young man concerned was from a fairly well off family, with access to medical care etc.

In my own view I just think humans have a certain propensity for violence, and unfortunately that can be made more effective by our knowledge of guns, and our ignorance of the tragic consequences of it. One day I'm sure we will reach a point when these things stop happening. Not because of tough legislation, but because we will overcome those destructive urges.
 
Kgal said:
Do I see the killing of innocent children as an atrocity? You betcha. I initially reacted in horror and pain. Would I want to be part of a team that comes up with a way to prevent it? Hayell yes. But condemning the killer does not help me see with clarity. The emotions that come with that sort of judgment clouds my sight. And any "solutions" I come up with would be integrally woven with - and therefore limited by - that judgment.

We don't need any more limited thinking these days... We need "outside of the box" thinking.
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Here's some outside the box thinking; it certainly isn't PC:
The murderer isn't suffering from mental illness, but rather suffers from a malfunctioning conscience.
 
MrDoobie said:
See, this is why your entire argument is made up of fallacies. Your entire argument is hinging on a fallacy of presumption. You assume the conclusion is in the proof, but it is not. If anything, you are the one arguing from a point of opinion, that this evidence inherently means that there is an Illuminati conspiracy for One World Government, but your evidence is not... well... self-evident. I have never offered opinion on your evidence or what it means, merely criticized your interpretation of the evidence as being very presumptuous and based on faith. Your arguments are fallacious and built entirely on Just-so Stories and guilt by association with some No True Scotsman peppered throughout for flavor both direct and implied ("if you really care about this you'd watch the same propaganda I do and start to think the same way I do"). If you don't know the difference between a survey and a mental health screening there's a little search box in the upper right hand corner of your screen that I find very useful sometimes.
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There's plenty of evidence out there regarding the plan for a one world government; you could perhaps start with the many quotes i posted in my previous post in this thread

I think....and i mean this in a totally non aggressive way....i think that you are tying yourself up too much in logical fallacies. They have their uses but they are not the real world

Have a look at the quotes, i think they're really insightful and as you'll see they are by people who have held very powerful positions in society....they're not some random guy on the internet spouting 'conspiracy theorys'!

Also i think the documentaries i posted links to are pretty good and worth a watch....they helped me see a bigger picture
 
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I noticed this being passed around on my Facebook this morning. Apparently Sandy Hook was referenced in the Dark Knight Rises, connecting the film with another mass shooting. If this is true, this is creepy as fuck:

http://www.ugo.com/image/214930/the-dark-knight-rises-viral-package
strike1_786_poster.jpg
 
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The_Dark_Knight_Rises___Sandy_Hook_2.webpkind of a stretch...but it does say "....ndy Hook"
 
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chulo said:
It's bullshit. I've seen the movie.
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I'm glad you've seen the movie, but if you bothered clicking the link, you'd know the picture in question was part of a viral campaign promoting the movie sent out in 2011, not the movie itself. It's an odd coincidence, but chilling nonetheless.
 
TheDaringHatTrick said:
Or people are going to start demanding that people with cognitive abnormalities be put on government mandated medication
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Because of this, it is important for us to point out that those who take prescriptions for their mental disorders are far more likely to commit acts of violence against both themselves and other than those who are never medicated. Without their medication mot such individuals would more often withdraw into themselves and lack the willpower to follow through with such heinous acts.
 
magister343 said:
Because of this, it is important for us to point out that those who take prescriptions for their mental disorders are far more likely to commit acts of violence against both themselves and other than those who are never medicated. Without their medication mot such individuals would more often withdraw into themselves and lack the willpower to follow through with such heinous acts.
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The trouble is, there's a lot of conflicting research into these drugs. The majority of patients who take these medications are able adjust to and lead normal lives with relatively little side effects; however, there is a smaller but no less significant number of people who have reacted adversely to the drugs. I don't think prescription drugs themselves are the problem. I think the fault lies with the health care system.

I think part of the problem is that doctors have a very laissez-faire attitude towards mood disorders and mental illness. There are people who are being medicated who do not need to be medicated and those that do need medication, are not being monitored closely enough once they are put on drugs.

If you go to the doctor complaining of a low mood, lethargy, etc. their first response is usually to whip out the prescription pad after a cursory look at your blood-work. Or they cart you off to a psychiatrist who looks you over the same shrug-and-sigh way and passes you the harder stuff and the 'therapy' ends there. Follow-up appointments are usually far and few in-between, whereas patients on medications should be closely monitored; daily even (especially if they're put on a new drug).

Most people don't know that mild to medium anxiety and depressive symptoms can be controlled with diet and exercise and changes in daily routine. Autism, ADD, schizoid and other personality and development disorders can also be treated with this way, though these particular ailments benefit the most from group therapy. The other thing to keep in mind is that these so called 'disorders' can also be symptoms of other ailments, rather than causes themselves. Adrenal fatigue, diabetes, thyroid dysfunction, vitamin-deficiency, etc. can all contribute to abnormal neural activity, but discovery is often not possible without a thorough investigation from a doctor first. Blood-work alone often won't cut it.

Not to mention that the American diet and lifestyle itself is a breeding ground for disease and mental illness. We're not taking care of ourselves the way we should and our minds and bodies are wont to suffer.

Medication is simply being over-prescribed and mishandled and there are not enough steps being taken to ensure the patient is receiving the right kind of care and support.
 
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Frankly, this society is reaping what it was sowing for years for being so ruthless. Everyday, I see children who know nothing of innocence, a society of American Idol, Jersey Shore and How I Met Your fucking Mother. A plethora of social labels; the intelligent are outcasted "nerds" and "geeks", the empathetic and sensitive are "emos who should kill themselves", the principled are "drama queens", and the naturally gifted are "weirdos". Don't even get me started on the ridiculous expectations that men and women of different ages have got to meet if they are to ever stand a fair chance at a normal happy life with maybe families of their own. Love has conditions, a price on it and a fucking insurance policy too. Saturated and even dripping with whatever bullshit the media drives down your throat. Complacency plagues you. Educational systems running as financial businesses to mass produce entities of labor to keep the cycle going. You either meet the standard or you're a defected product; too bad you can't recycle human beings. Driven by hard logic, consumerism and confusing cynicism for realism; you are what you own, you are what you wear, you are how people see you and tell you to be, you are everything but your own person. Dysfunctional families, broken friendships, your elderly abused and abandoned.

Honestly, did you think that you can hurt each other so much for so long and there would no consequences? You put people through so much sufferance in a society void of spirituality, love or compassion and you don't expect them to disconnect, detach and lash out? This murderer is not mentally ill, this person is the byproduct of your ridiculous and heartless social constructs. Media, materialism and peer pressure...nobody's good enough to fit in anymore. The slightest deviance and they are unable to connect with others, carrying the burden of prejudice, judgement and expectations they can't meet.


And here we are still looking to blame someone or something other than ourselves, and we are just as quick in finding it. First, it was the introverted loner, we labeled him the "antisocial", now it's the "mentally ill". Our solution? We need more and better meds, because we are unable of fixing ourselves we need a cure to be human again. What these people need is not better meds, what they need is a better village to raise the child. I remember sometime ago on this forum, there was a discussion of whether throwing fake bodies around out in the open was considered art or not. I still can't get over how ridiculous that discussion was...and you still wonder how a child would act out so violently as to raise a knife at his mother. Where do you think he got the idea that a knife would bring death to a person's life? Our children are either subjected to violence and abuse or exposed to violence and abuse, with no coping mechanisms to make sense of it all.


This is perhaps the outcry of my maternal instinct, but we keep worrying about who our children would become when they grow and we forget who they are right now. The kid in Dragon's article is no nut job. He's highly emotionally intelligent; faking remorse to get what he wants, understanding what manipulation is at that age is NOT a mental illness. It is an intelligence that we don't know how to deal with. So we pump him with drugs and keep him under control. We call the police, we threaten of throwing him in an asylum...how do you think that affects a sane full grown-up adult. Now imagine a child who has so much to discover of the world.


The symptoms of these violent acts have been there for a very long time, and we all know it, but we chose to ignore it. We liked our own Brave New World. The day you begin to massacre your own offspring is the day you realize that your society is terminally ill.



What worries me though is that most of the human population looks up to us and the way we lead our lives, dreaming of greener pastures, cause obviously we've made it to the "good life".
 
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Amen [MENTION=1579]Odyne[/MENTION]
 
I'm optimistic. I believe our culture has cycles and our generation is going to learn from our mistakes and raise the next generation differently. We as humans are constantly experimenting because every 100 years the planet is filled with completely new people. So we sort of have to re-learn things we may have known in the past. Perhaps we could start by remembering the 10 commandments. And before you label me a "Jesus-freak", try reading them and really thinking about what they mean and how they are supposed to help us be happy.

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
This is the one we suffer the most from as a society. We don't look within for solutions, instead we point the finger at corrupt politicians, the media, and business executives when they really don't have any power over us. We have made them into false gods, we put our faith in them and depend on them for change and progress. We need to stop pointing fingers and simply be the change we want to see in the world. The problem is cultural not structural.

2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
I interpret this one as "Don't get too caught up in the hustle, remember to take at least one day to get in contact and remember how valuable the people are around you, including your servants and wildlife."

5. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

6. Thou shalt not kill.
Spiritually, intellectually, physically, or emotionally. We kill each other spiritually and emotionally by alienating each other for our differences. We kill each other intellectually by eating unhealthy and watching too much TV. The people who can't handle the pain act out by killing others physically and get labeled as sub-human. Meanwhile the people who kill others physically over seas are labeled as hero's.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Basically don't act like a hoe. Don't hurt people and make them cynical by cheating on them. Ladies, quit stealing each others men because you women love to do that shit. Men, keep your dick in your pants (unless it's appropriate).

8. Thou shalt not steal.
This expands beyond material possessions. Don't steal self-esteem, truth, time, resources, or individuality from anyone.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
In other words be honest. Don't steal the truth from people.

10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Don't be jealous and materialistic. Materialism will never make you happy. Only love will make you happy. Fellas, don't be jealous of your neighbors ass, even if it's nicer than yours. ;)
 
I think that in the midst of a highly stressed, 24/7 society, and the near exponential growth in technology, we are leaving our humanity behind. We need to find a way to simplify our lives and heal the wounds that been left untreated. We need to start looking after one another.
 
chulo said:
I'm optimistic. I believe our culture has cycles and our generation is going to learn from our mistakes and raise the next generation differently. We as humans are constantly experimenting because every 100 years the planet is filled with completely new people. So we sort of have to re-learn things we may have known in the past. Perhaps we could start by remembering the 10 commandments. And before you label me a "Jesus-freak", try reading them and really thinking about what they mean and how they are supposed to help us be happy.

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
This is the one we suffer the most from as a society. We don't look within for solutions, instead we point the finger at corrupt politicians, the media, and business executives when they really don't have any power over us. We have made them into false gods, we put our faith in them and depend on them for change and progress. We need to stop pointing fingers and simply be the change we want to see in the world. The problem is cultural not structural.

2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
I interpret this one as "Don't get too caught up in the hustle, remember to take at least one day to get in contact and remember how valuable the people are around you, including your servants and wildlife."

5. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

6. Thou shalt not kill.
Spiritually, intellectually, physically, or emotionally. We kill each other spiritually and emotionally by alienating each other for our differences. We kill each other intellectually by eating unhealthy and watching too much TV. The people who can't handle the pain act out by killing others physically and get labeled as sub-human. Meanwhile the people who kill others physically over seas are labeled as hero's.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Basically don't act like a hoe. Don't hurt people and make them cynical by cheating on them. Ladies, quit stealing each others men because you women love to do that shit. Men, keep your dick in your pants (unless it's appropriate).

8. Thou shalt not steal.
This expands beyond material possessions. Don't steal self-esteem, truth, time, resources, or individuality from anyone.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
In other words be honest. Don't steal the truth from people.

10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Don't be jealous and materialistic. Materialism will never make you happy. Only love will make you happy. Fellas, don't be jealous of your neighbors ass, even if it's nicer than yours. ;)
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You ain't Moses.
 
chulo said:
I'm optimistic. I believe our culture has cycles and our generation is going to learn from our mistakes and raise the next generation differently. We as humans are constantly experimenting because every 100 years the planet is filled with completely new people. So we sort of have to re-learn things we may have known in the past. Perhaps we could start by remembering the 10 commandments. And before you label me a "Jesus-freak", try reading them and really thinking about what they mean and how they are supposed to help us be happy.
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I am optomistic that we can turn everything round

Most people are essentially decent and want to live in peace. However there are people who are creating a brutalising world that is bashing people out of shape

This is the key to this whole thing that the public must grasp if there is to be any progress: none of this is an accident. there is a cabal of powerful people who are steering our society. they control the banking sector, the government, big pharma, psychiatry, the media etc

It is only when people can see the serpent that they will be able to chop off its head. Follow the money, right back to the source: the privately owned federal reserve bank. We need to dethrone those people anything else will be a waste of time because all these things whether mental anguish, shootings, war, crime etc are all symptoms of the system that this cabal has created and are seeking to deepen
 
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