Merkabah

[Shaqie]

Define imaginary...

In this particular case I mean something that happens without any control of mine. When an idea occurs in my head it does appear to be random, but afterwards I tend to control it.

In the case before, the thing occurring wasn't controllable, it was just happening.

PS: I seriously tend to not talk about, strange, events. Sometimes they do tend to have a rational explanations. Well ... sometimes.

 

[Skarekrow]

In this particular case I mean something that happens without any control of mine. When an idea occurs in my head it does appear to be random, but afterwards I tend to control it.

In the case before, the thing occurring wasn't controllable, it was just happening.

PS: I seriously tend to not talk about, strange, events. Sometimes they do tend to have a rational explanations. Well ... sometimes.

Then yes...I have experienced that...what was going on exactly I cannot speculate.

 

[Shaqie]

Then yes...I have experienced that...what was going on exactly I cannot speculate.

I was hearing someone or something called Ezriel telling me that he or it knows I can hear him or it and that I should listen.

That was all. It sounded very insisting, very urgent and somewhat commanding and trethening. Oddly enough though it ended after a while.

Weird stuff, never experienced anything like it.

 

[Skarekrow]

I was hearing someone or something called Ezriel telling me that he or it knows I can hear him or it and that I should listen.

That was all. It sounded very insisting, very urgent and somewhat commanding and trethening. Oddly enough though it ended after a while.

Weird stuff, never experienced anything like it.

Well...not to freak you out...
There are two origins for that name as there are different spellings....one is from Ezra which means “help”
The other is Azrael, and is traditional name for the angel of death in many religious denominations.

I wouldn’t follow a voice like that in my head...if you do subscribe to there being good and evil spirits, angels, demons, etc...you can not really know which is was - good or evil.
I have read on more than one occasion, and even certain religions believe it that an evil spirit pretending to be good cannot not take a hand (handshake) offered to them...that they are bound by something preventing them from deceiving you. I don’t know that the same could be said for voices in your head...you could try something like saying the Lord’s Prayer or whatever religious mantra you adhere to....then ask it to reveal it’s true nature to you. I still don’t know that I would follow what it was telling me to do...especially if it wanted me to do something sketchy.

Then there is the medical side that should be explored...have you, or anyone in your family, immediate or otherwise, been diagnosed or shown symptoms of schizophrenia? Not saying you are...but you shouldn’t rule anything out when trying to solve a mystery.

 

[Kgal]

I was hearing someone or something called Ezriel telling me that he or it knows I can hear him or it and that I should listen.

That was all. It sounded very insisting, very urgent and somewhat commanding and trethening. Oddly enough though it ended after a while.

Weird stuff, never experienced anything like it.

First of all - from where I find myself standing these days - the voice in your head is "normal" ....in that it is happening to many other persons around the world.

That said...

If the voice is making you feel uncomfortable in any way then tell it No. I choose to ignore you. We have free will and when any of the entities makes contact with us we have the choice to listen or not.

From my own experiences I can say my Ego caused most of the doubt and fearfulness due to it's conditioning by society to think I'm going crazy for experiencing non ordinary reality (or reality depending upon one's perspective).

I understand Skarekrow's idea of giving characteristics to the names based upon the bible and other sources. I would say anything coming from the Bible is suspect...

Go into your heart and sit there for a little while. YOU and your heart know Truth.

PS... and yes! you are awesome!

 

[sprinkles]

I was hearing someone or something called Ezriel telling me that he or it knows I can hear him or it and that I should listen.

That was all. It sounded very insisting, very urgent and somewhat commanding and trethening. Oddly enough though it ended after a while.

Weird stuff, never experienced anything like it.

As a multidimensional persona I can tell you that it's possible for individuated facets, or personalities, beings/people/whatever to live in your awareness.

It's commonly called a personality disorder. Fragmenting, dissociative identities, multiple personalities... all are possible and documented.

I don't know if this is happening here or if its another foreign individual contacting you. I'm just saying it because 'I' have multiple personas and this is a bit what it is like some times, or at least it used to be before we became more cohesive and integrated.

I'd literally have multiple running commentaries and opinions about things and what they want to do with the physical body at a given time, what inputs and activities they do and don't care for, what makes them happy/sad/angry and all sorts of stuff. Eventually I had to recruit some internal guardians and liaisons to co-manage and delegate all this crap and sort it out, and literally schedule things out for certain facets to have face time so that they can get what they need.

It's much more quiet and organized now, so much so that I some times forget about it and think I'm just one being but in the past there was a lot of this going on. It's more integrated now because allowing the facets some face time helped them work out their issues and integrate into a whole (and thereby stop being a pest)

 

[sprinkles]

[MENTION=5750]Shaqie[/MENTION]

Also that isn't to say you should listen to it. Some facets you definitely shouldn't listen to whether or not they're internal or foreign.

That's why I recruited guardians to shut these down if they want to try anything funny.

 

[say what]

[MENTION=5750]Shaqie[/MENTION]

I don't know if this is inappropriate to ask, but did the voice occur around the time of someone passing?

I've found ever since my grandmother (who I was extremely close with) past, I occasionally hear her. I try to be logical about it, telling myself it's just me thinking it...but a part of me does believe it's her.

 

[Quiet]

Yes but when a person grasps that this life is temporary but that they are part of a wider consciousness then it often leads to either asceticism at one end where they reason that if this life is just a transient illusion then they should just not engage with it and at the other end some people reason that if it is all just an illusion that they should just have a big blow out after all who cares about the consequences?

So what is usually advocated is a middle way between these extremes

Not caring too much and not caring too little

Enjoy the experience for what it is but always keep in mind that it is what it is

Great video!

When we see it is for what it is, it is impossible not to enjoy it!

Balance is the key, and it is in integration that we recognise this. When we place a lie and a truth together, the lie becomes apparent in the light of the truth. The lie can only remain a lie when it is hidden and not brought into the light. Say we have a room full of darkness, and a room full of light. We place these rooms next to each other, and we can see that they are different. When we integrate these rooms together, the room of darkness disappears, because darkness is not real. Darkness is nothing, it is only the absence of light. And in the presence of light, darkness is nothing. All that remains, all that we see, is Light. There is no grey after integration! Grey is an illusion that the alchemical marriage dissipates.

There is nothing wrong with desire. There is nothing wrong with anything. Nothing wrong exists! It is attachment that brings suffering, because attachment interrupts and restricts the flow of Self. Attachment implies lack, danger and restriction. Attachment implies that we must hold onto something, something that we can only have through vigilence, and therefore we can lose it, and it is not actually ours. Yes, we cannot lose attachment by becoming attached to detatchment! But we can see that attachment is nothing by intergrating it into the Light. In the Light, we have everything and need not hold onto any of it. Everything is perfect, we deserve it ALL, and nothing can take it away from us, because we are One.

When we realise that the egoic projection of illusion is nothing, we see what we are not. And we also realise what We Are. We are One, infinite Love, Grace, Joy, Peace, and Power. Our potential is unlimited. There is no point except to be and live what We ARE. Leave the zombie world of nothing behind. Remove our attention from it, and it holds no power because it is nothing. We integrate the world of nothing with the knowledge and being of What We ARE, and only the Truth and Light remains. The Kingdom of Heaven is within us, and we are here to Live it. We are here to bring Home, Source, Nirvana, to Earth. We are here to translate what we Know We ARE into experience for the joy of creation.

What is there left to do other than to enjoy? What we focus on we reinforce, empower, and make real. We see what we are prepared to see, what we are willing to see. See no evil, hear no evil. Good thoughts, good words, good deeds. Everything that contradicts your perfect vision, bring to the Light and integrate. Ask the Holy Spirit to see for you, as the Holy Spirit sees only Truth. Enjoy a 5 minute meditation everyday where we revel in the pure joy of being, Perfection and Love, free from any fear, guilt, and shame. Extend this Holy moment into all moments. Our perfect vision is restored.

Maya has been our playground. Our Glorious and Beloved Earth has allowed us to experience Maya here. Shekinah has been with us, this entire journey. It is She that birthed us through God in eternity, and allowed us to be here, and She that comforts us when we reach out. The consciousness of Earth is ascending. We ascend with Her, and she ascends with us. Shekinah guides us through this Holy process. God gave us the Holy spirit to guide us home. She descended with us into the dense world of illusion. She has stayed with us in the third dimmension. And now we move into the Heart and beyond. She moves with us. As she moves through us, everything is illuminated. She restores our Holy Vision. We release Christ, within us, by complete forgiveness of our supposed sins. We release Christ in All, through recognising, acknowledging, and revering Him through forgiving all the sins he supposedly committed. We forgive through seeing everything in the Light. We recognise that the separation has never occured and this has been a dream. Sin loses its power when we recognise that sin is not real and has never occured, sin is nothing. There is nothing to forgive! God cannot forgive us, because God knows that there is no sin. God is incapable of perceiving sin, because God is Holy, Love, and beyond perception. It is only us that need to forgive, because we believe it is possible to do something that would require forgiveness. It is not a sin to have been dreaming! We cannot hold the details of an imaginary dream over the Son of God. 'Nothing' can hold no power over Christ. 'Nothing' has no power and has never happened. Christ is God's only and beloved son. He lives within us All. He is within! We release Christ through forgiveness. Jesus showed us the way. He forgave all because he saw all. To see is to forgive. Jesus made the At- One- Ment. He set an example, a path. Jesus was here so that we may have Life, not so that we could celebrate death and sacrifice!

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" John 3:16

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." John 14:6-7

Imagine a world of Christ Consciousness! What would it be like? The Garden of Eden. A place created only for the pure joy of creation. A place where we can garden, and enjoy All.
What do we do to create this is easy, and requires us to do nothing! We surrender to the One, and Christ within us is reborn! Surrender the perception that brings so much pain and suffering to the Light, and the Holy Spirit will restore our vision by seeing for us. Our dearest Mother, Shekinah, Goddess, Holy Spirit guides us always. It is her that we seek to reunite with the Father in the Divine Holy Marriage. She that came here so that the Son could be sustained when He believed himself to be separate from His Father.

Whenever we are not enjoying ourselves, we are doing it all wrong. The more we surrender to the infinite Love and sustenance of One, the less we need do for ourself.
Many societies in our historical past and in the universe have understood and lived this. It is most often, the societies that ours would look upon as heathen, hedonistic, animal, and uncivillised that we more in tune with the rhythm of Life. They trusted and revered the Mother, and she sustained them. Every season was a joy, there was always cause for celebration. We lived close to the Earth, each other, the plants and the animals. We learned and found joy in All. All was celebrated and revered.

Life is about celebration! We live on a beautiful planet that is highly conscious and is ascending. This is even more cause for celebration. Let us not allow any dreams of an illusory past taint what we can create and live. This is the only way in which we can be practical!

Fuck, we could pretty much be having a constant celebration!
Everyone! Imagine, what shall we do now then?
Lets all go camping! Where shall we go camping? Anywhere in the world that was created to be our playground and is our friend. We can have a roaring beautiful campfire. Someone bring musical instruments. We can have delicious food and wine. Shall we enjoy some delightful crystals from the dear Wattle Tree? Have you guys watched the clouds play during the day, and the moon and stars play with the clouds at night? Watched a plant grow? Listened to the sound of morning? Seen the sun rise from the horizon over the ocean, in a valley? Walked though a canopy of trees? Listened to the ancient trees in the forest? Been hynotised watching the flow of water in a river and in the ocean? Seen a flower birth into fruit? Laughed for so long that it is impossible to remember the reason you began? Danced for so long that it is the Earth that dances through you? Watch the animals at play and the birds in the sky? Slept on the soft grass under the stars with no fear of anything? Known fully that we are the Earth and merged into Loving Bliss Oneness! Lets all do that!
Or something else, it doesnt matter, as long as we are enjoying ourself and doing what we actually want

 

[Skarekrow]

Quantum Physics and the Afterlife
Those who think they can rely on outdated science to support a materialist view of a universe without an afterlife and psychic phenomena are clearly misinformed.
A revolution is going on in science.

Over the last few decades there has been a significant increase in research into quantum physics, the study of atoms and subatomic particles and energies.
Quantum physicists are discovering no conflict at all between the physics of the subatomic world and belief in the paranormal and the afterlife. Indeed they are showing that the phenomena we now call “paranormal” are normal and consistent with the what is now known about laws of science at this level.

There has been a shift from an older Newtonian view that the universe is made up of lifeless clumps of matter where the ultimate reality is "fundamental particles" to one of wholeness and the consciousness of all living things.
The picture of our universe that is emerging is one of INTERCONNECTION - of mind-matter interactions and of instant communication across vast distances. Physicists are slowly and surely discovering that at the heart of all matter there is ENERGY and CONSCIOUSNESS.

As Dr Erwin Laszlo writes:

" The living world is not the harsh domain of classical Darwinism, where each struggles against all, with every species, every organism and every gene competing for advantage against every other. Organisms are not skin-enclosed selfish entities, and competition is never unfettered. Life evolves, as does the universe itself, in a 'sacred dance' with an underlying field. This makes living beings into elements in a vast network of intimate relations that embraces the entire biosphere itself an interconnected element within the wider connections that reach into the cosmos."

Willis W Harman of the Institute of Noetic Sciences writes:
" There is a new world view emerging which is based neither on traditional religion or Newtonian psychics. There is a shift in authority from external to "inner knowing." It has basically turned away from the older scientific view that ultimate reality is "fundamental particles," and trusts perceptions of the wholeness and spiritual aspect of organisms, ecosystems, Gaia and Cosmos. It amounts to a reconciliation of scientific inquiry with the "perennial wisdom" at the core of the world's spiritual traditions. It continues to involve a confidence in scientific inquiry, but an inquiry whose metaphysical base has shifted from the reductionist, objectivist, positivist base of 19th- and 20th-century science to a more holistic and transcendental metaphysical foundation."
* Nobel Prize winning physicist Dr Brian Jospehson and Professor Jessica Utts claim that current science needs to adapt to accommodate the evidence that has accumulated for the paranormal.
" What are the implications for science of the fact that psychic functioning appears to be a real effect? These phenomena seem mysterious, but no more mysterious perhaps than strange phenomena of the past which science has now happily incorporated within its scope (Utts and Josephson 1996)."
“The Paranormal: The Evidence and its Implications for Consciousness” by Jessica Utts and Brian D. Josephson.http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/psi/tucson.html



* Dr Edgar Mitchell PhD, scientist, test pilot, naval officer, astronaut, entrepreneur, author and lecturer. Founder of the Institute of Noetic Sciences.

" A host of observed, but very basic human phenomena, including consciousness itself, have eluded rigorous scientific description by all disciplines of science. This is true, not because of insufficient evidence for a particular phenomenon's existence, but rather for lack of a theoretical construct which could fit within the prevailing paradigms of science. For millennia philosophers have pondered the nature of mind, consciousness and mind/matter interactions but without sufficient knowledge and technical capability to propose properly testable theories.
For the past century eminent men and women of science have accumulated thousands of pages of data on mind/mind and mind/matter interactions. Many of the most telling experiments have been criticized, perfected and repeated numerous times during the past five decades, using increasingly sophisticated technologies.

Meta analysis of these experiments produce accumulated probabilities against chance occurrences exceeding trillions to one (Radin, 1997).

It has required, however, that quantum science mature for seventy-five years and during that period, test, validate and synthesize a number of seemingly outrageous physical concepts arising from quantum theory, before testable theories could arise.
The missing concepts that prevented the earliest investigators of consciousness from succeeding in their quest were 1) a generalized theory of information, and 2) quantum science itself, with the associated phenomena of nonlocality, the zero point energy field and the quantum hologram. "

In this interview Dr Mitchell argues that " Quantum mechanics has suggested that the Cartesian duality is flawed; that body and mind are not two realms but two faces of the same realm namely energy."
[video=youtube_share;-4U2sNtJKEU]http://youtu.be/-4U2sNtJKEU[/video]

* Dr Willis Harman, Ph.D., (deceased), President, Institute of Noetic Sciences, California and Emeritus Professor, Engineering- Economic Systems, Stanford University.
"Quantum physics showed that you could not leave out the consciousness of the observer."
"If there really is only a oneness, then everything effects everything."
[video=youtube_share;8NkYpzO3wwA]http://youtu.be/8NkYpzO3wwA[/video]
* Professor Fred Alan Wolf PhD: theoretical physicist and writer on the subjects of quantum physics, consciousness, and their relationship.
"There is enough in the nature of the way the physical universe is constructed to indicate the presence of something called soul."

" the soul, which is non-physical and therefore not confined by movements in the material world, can travel faster than the speed of light...

So at the time of death, or during a near-death experience, it may very well be that the person transitions from the material world--that operates at speeds less than the speed of light--to a world that operates faster than light speed."

* DAVID ASH, author of numerous books on quantum physics, mysticism and consciousness.
" I am predicting that in these worlds of superenergy beyond the speed of light there are going to be living intelligent beings and because our world is part of their world they can see us even if we can't see them...the laws of physics are exactly the same on each plane, the only difference is the speed of energy..."

In Part 5 of this interview David Ash explains how quantum physics can account for different planes where everything is just as solid as we are.

[video=youtube_share;zi4iKeSzhdE]http://youtu.be/zi4iKeSzhdE[/video]

 

[Tin Man]

[MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION] Interesting stuff. I found the linked article especially fascinating. I've thought for a while that the purely empirical methods scientists use needs to be altered to accommodate hypotheses that don't fit this standard so neatly. It's been noted before that science is closing the gap with philosophy because there are so many valid theories which are outside practical experimentation.

That said, I can understand why the scientific method is so valued. If changes are made so science accepts evidence that is not easily measured then where does it end. Any pseudo-science could demand to be accepted by the scientific community. Many of these theories are not only baseless, but can even be harmful. However if the line between science and spirituality is diminished they'll have to be acknowledged.

 

[say what]

[MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION]
That said, I can understand why the scientific method is so valued. If changes are made so science accepts evidence that is not easily measured then where does it end. Any pseudo-science could demand to be accepted by the scientific community. Many of these theories are not only baseless, but can even be harmful. However if the line between science and spirituality is diminished they'll have to be acknowledged.

Oh, the old scientific method. I think you bring up a good point, how do we know evidence is credible? Is it based on reliability and validity? The more I read and understand the scientific method, the more I question it's credibility. It's based on postivist empiricism, which believes in universal truths, and even the more common 'pseudo-scientific method' believes that there are universal truths (post-positivism). While these are the most common epistemologies, they're not the only ones, nor the only ones that can provide credible (maybe not reliable and valid - but we have to remember these are methodological traits derived from postivist ontologies) understandings of relationships, phenomenons or experiences.

We've been engrained to believe that the postivistic scientific method is the only real way to gather evidence, but we know this is not true. There are many issues with the idea of a single or absolute truth. We now know that policies based on data from the general North American public (largely white males of middle class standing), does not apply or represent the experiences of minorities (in age, gender, and SES). While the scientific methods should be thrown out, we should try and challenge it, and find other complimentary ways to understand and discover knowledge; which I think is especially important when it comes to new ideas or ones that challenge philosophical and theoretical ideas.

I've found this extremely difficult, and often catch myself (when I watch/read information like [MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION] or [MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] present) saying "well, that's not credible"...and then I discount that. But I think we all have to ask ourselves "what makes something credible?" , "does a truth have to be credible?", and "who's idea/standard of knowledge am I basing my understanding of the world on?"...I'm not saying that the scientific method isn't important - heck, it's what I base my career on - but I think we need to begin to question it's own validity!

 

[Skarekrow]

@Skarekrow Interesting stuff. I found the linked article especially fascinating. I've thought for a while that the purely empirical methods scientists use needs to be altered to accommodate hypotheses that don't fit this standard so neatly. It's been noted before that science is closing the gap with philosophy because there are so many valid theories which are outside practical experimentation.

That said, I can understand why the scientific method is so valued. If changes are made so science accepts evidence that is not easily measured then where does it end. Any pseudo-science could demand to be accepted by the scientific community. Many of these theories are not only baseless, but can even be harmful. However if the line between science and spirituality is diminished they'll have to be acknowledged.

Oh, the old scientific method. I think you bring up a good point, how do we know evidence is credible? Is it based on reliability and validity? The more I read and understand the scientific method, the more I question it's credibility. It's based on postivist empiricism, which believes in universal truths, and even the more common 'pseudo-scientific method' believes that there are universal truths (post-positivism). While these are the most common epistemologies, they're not the only ones, nor the only ones that can provide credible (maybe not reliable and valid - but we have to remember these are methodological traits derived from postivist ontologies) understandings of relationships, phenomenons or experiences.

We've been engrained to believe that the postivistic scientific method is the only real way to gather evidence, but we know this is not true. There are many issues with the idea of a single or absolute truth. We now know that policies based on data from the general North American public (largely white males of middle class standing), does not apply or represent the experiences of minorities (in age, gender, and SES). While the scientific methods should be thrown out, we should try and challenge it, and find other complimentary ways to understand and discover knowledge; which I think is especially important when it comes to new ideas or ones that challenge philosophical and theoretical ideas.

I've found this extremely difficult, and often catch myself (when I watch/read information like @Skarekrow or @muir present) saying "well, that's not credible"...and then I discount that. But I think we all have to ask ourselves "what makes something credible?" , "does a truth have to be credible?", and "who's idea/standard of knowledge am I basing my understanding of the world on?"...I'm not saying that the scientific method isn't important - heck, it's what I base my career on - but I think we need to begin to question it's own validity!

On the topic of questioning what is true....
How many people have asked that in the last 100,000 years I wonder? What is truth?
lololol
I know that some of what is presented here in this thread can be quickly categorized as “out there”, but it is no more out there than the commonly accepted stories that are in the Bible. It all has to do with your point of view.
You can be standing in front of a sculpture and tell me it’s one thing, whereas I could be standing to the side and tell you “Oh no, you cannot fully see it for what it is.”. Of course we would both be unable to see it fully in that scenario...which only illustrates how easily it can be to jump to conclusions.
The scientific method was established to try and show a complete picture by taking logical steps. This however, can not be used when you are exploring something such as quantum physics, where the tried and true understandings of physics no longer necessarily apply.
The same could be said for the exploration of the paranormal, of metaphysics, and your subject @say what - psychology. I would argue that one cannot apply a logical method to our own brain...we are highly illogical beings (I’m sure there’s a Spock quote there)...even if you did apply it, I am also sure that until we have an imitate understanding of neurochemistry (right now we try to fix the cogs and wheels of our neurochemistry with mallets when all we really need is a tiny screwdriver), and how the brain actually stores information, processes information, can have a quantum duality - yes, they are finding that your brain works of a quantum level...something we are still in the dark about....and once again, you cannot apply the scientific method to something in regards to quantum physics or mechanics.
There needs to be a stepping stone...a new way to think of things in our universe...things don’t always go neatly from A to B to C...sometimes they jump from A to C....or to X for that matter....or could exist at A and X at once we are finding out...we just don’t know how our own universe within each atom works well enough yet...in fact, all they really have is theory after all these years...they have been able to prove certain things by doing this or that and watching the results...but once again - it’s taking a mallet to it. Namely the Large Hadron Collider...we cannot neatly and carefully, dissect things on an atomic level, so what do we do? We do what we do best - destroy it....then we try and see what pieces flew out in the process.
It’s like if I took a package and gave it to you...and you tried to figure out what was in it by blowing it up and then looking at the bits lift over...it’s crude and it would give you an incomplete picture...if you could figure it out at all.
This is why the scientific method is just a stepping stone...it is wonderful to figure certain things out, and is for sure responsible for many, many discoveries that were made...but it should only be considered one step in the process.
I KNOW there are paranormal things out there...having witnessed it with my own eyes on more than one occasion...but I could not tell you what it was exactly on any of those really...and I certainly couldn’t use the scientific method.
The basis of the article wasn’t to really argue about the scientific method and it’s validity so much, as it was to show that the scientific field itself acknowledges that there is something to the paranormal, psychic abilities, metaphysics, etc. These are some of the most brilliant minds alive and dead...and those were the few that I actually did post...there were more that I plan to post but I didn’t want to make the post too long or throw out so much info at once that everyone got bored with it....lol.

 

[LucyJr]

Scientism is self-refuting.
The claims of people that science has precede or dismissed philosophy, is a false claim and also self-refuting.

 

[Skarekrow]

On the topic of questioning what is true....
How many people have asked that in the last 100,000 years I wonder? What is truth?
lololol
I know that some of what is presented here in this thread can be quickly categorized as “out there”, but it is no more out there than the commonly accepted stories that are in the Bible. It all has to do with your point of view.
You can be standing in front of a sculpture and tell me it’s one thing, whereas I could be standing to the side and tell you “Oh no, you cannot fully see it for what it is.”. Of course we would both be unable to see it fully in that scenario...which only illustrates how easily it can be to jump to conclusions.
The scientific method was established to try and show a complete picture by taking logical steps. This however, can not be used when you are exploring something such as quantum physics, where the tried and true understandings of physics no longer necessarily apply.
The same could be said for the exploration of the paranormal, of metaphysics, and your subject @say what - psychology. I would argue that one cannot apply a logical method to our own brain...we are highly illogical beings (I’m sure there’s a Spock quote there)...even if you did apply it, I am also sure that until we have an imitate understanding of neurochemistry (right now we try to fix the cogs and wheels of our neurochemistry with mallets when all we really need is a tiny screwdriver), and how the brain actually stores information, processes information, can have a quantum duality - yes, they are finding that your brain works of a quantum level...something we are still in the dark about....and once again, you cannot apply the scientific method to something in regards to quantum physics or mechanics.
There needs to be a stepping stone...a new way to think of things in our universe...things don’t always go neatly from A to B to C...sometimes they jump from A to C....or to X for that matter....or could exist at A and X at once we are finding out...we just don’t know how our own universe within each atom works well enough yet...in fact, all they really have is theory after all these years...they have been able to prove certain things by doing this or that and watching the results...but once again - it’s taking a mallet to it. Namely the Large Hadron Collider...we cannot neatly and carefully, dissect things on an atomic level, so what do we do? We do what we do best - destroy it....then we try and see what pieces flew out in the process.
It’s like if I took a package and gave it to you...and you tried to figure out what was in it by blowing it up and then looking at the bits lift over...it’s crude and it would give you an incomplete picture...if you could figure it out at all.
This is why the scientific method is just a stepping stone...it is wonderful to figure certain things out, and is for sure responsible for many, many discoveries that were made...but it should only be considered one step in the process.
I KNOW there are paranormal things out there...having witnessed it with my own eyes on more than one occasion...but I could not tell you what it was exactly on any of those really...and I certainly couldn’t use the scientific method.
The basis of the article wasn’t to really argue about the scientific method and it’s validity so much, as it was to show that the scientific field itself acknowledges that there is something to the paranormal, psychic abilities, metaphysics, etc. These are some of the most brilliant minds alive and dead...and those were the few that I actually did post...there were more that I plan to post but I didn’t want to make the post too long or throw out so much info at once that everyone got bored with it....lol.

Just to edit myself...the LHC is more like a bunch of cave-men with no knowledge of circuitry or electricity smashing a computer to it’s smallest bits to figure it out

 

[muir]

Oh, the old scientific method. I think you bring up a good point, how do we know evidence is credible? Is it based on reliability and validity? The more I read and understand the scientific method, the more I question it's credibility. It's based on postivist empiricism, which believes in universal truths, and even the more common 'pseudo-scientific method' believes that there are universal truths (post-positivism). While these are the most common epistemologies, they're not the only ones, nor the only ones that can provide credible (maybe not reliable and valid - but we have to remember these are methodological traits derived from postivist ontologies) understandings of relationships, phenomenons or experiences.

If you look at where the empirical method came from it came from occult orders such as the rosicrucians and the 'invisible college' in the UK

Francis Bacon was said to be the father of the empirical method (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_bacon) and he was a Rosicrucian

The rosicrucians talked about the chemical wedding...they were alchemists. Another famous scientific alchemist of this era was Isaac Newton

There was a tension with the established church which forced a lot of scientific work underground and the occult undercurrent offered an intellectual freedom to those who were on a journ ey of discovery. For example the church forbade the dissection of human bodies which stalled the understanding of the human body

But these occultists scientists have lead people down the wrong path into materiality. This was the false god that jesus reacted against in the bible when he attacked the moneychangers who were corrupting the holy space of the temple with their material ego bound games

This is why christianity and islam forbade usury because it was rooted in materiality and the worship of the false god mammon. The jews were not so constrained and two jews marx and engels were to create a materialist doctrine called now marxist socialism

The gnostics that were so brutally crushed by the Catholic church said that this material world was a world of matter and that god lay beyond this fallen world but that people could reunite with god in this life

This is what the matrix films were all about. They were about a false reality beyond which lay a greater truth. The false reality was created by the architect who was the gnostic demiurge (false god). His agents (archons or agent smiths in the films) would fight to keep the matrix alive by killing any people who reminded people that this is just am illusiory world of matter

Freemasonry says that there is an architect who created our world (the GATOU). They use the symbols of a square and compass to represent matter and consciousness...the building blocks of our reality

The occult orders know that the matrix is self aware and that we are all consciousness. Their false limiting (left brained) doctrine of empiricism keeps us from seeing through the illusiory world that they wish to keep us trapped in. In this sense they trap our consciousness here

According to the gnostics what we are supposed to be doing however is reuniting with spirit and remembering what we really are: infinate consciousnes and oneness with all.

The dark occult orders however have got a game going here that they like. In this reality they are rich and powerful and they don't want to see the rules of the game changed so they seek to hide all this from people

Jesus is yeheshua. the holy name of god is the tetragrammaton: YHVH, which is short for Yod-He-Vav-He

Spirit in hebrew is 'shin' (represented symbolically by a fire symbol)

When a person reunites with spirit then this is represented as: yod-he-shin-vav-he or ye-he-sh-u-a: JESUS

Jesus is simply the christed consciousness....the aware consciousness that understands that it is part of a wider consciousness having an experience here in this reality and that there are people (black magicians) who have a lot invested in keeping this reality the way it is by keeping people stuck in a small mindset where they feel like they are unimportant and have no power, when in fact they ARE EVERYTHING...anyone can become a christed consciousness

As the zen masters would say we are already it...we just have to become aware

[video=youtube;iMUiwTubYu0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMUiwTubYu0[/video]

We've been engrained to believe that the postivistic scientific method is the only real way to gather evidence, but we know this is not true. There are many issues with the idea of a single or absolute truth. We now know that policies based on data from the general North American public (largely white males of middle class standing), does not apply or represent the experiences of minorities (in age, gender, and SES). While the scientific methods should be thrown out, we should try and challenge it, and find other complimentary ways to understand and discover knowledge; which I think is especially important when it comes to new ideas or ones that challenge philosophical and theoretical ideas.

I've found this extremely difficult, and often catch myself (when I watch/read information like @Skarekrow or @muir present) saying "well, that's not credible"...and then I discount that. But I think we all have to ask ourselves "what makes something credible?" , "does a truth have to be credible?", and "who's idea/standard of knowledge am I basing my understanding of the world on?"...I'm not saying that the scientific method isn't important - heck, it's what I base my career on - but I think we need to begin to question it's own validity!

The black lodge put their gatekeepers (agent smiths) in all the positions of power so that they can control the game

They bought up the mainstream media (using the money they fraudulently gained through the central banking system which they devised) and they bought up the publishing houses and journals

So the black lodge decide whose work gets funded, who gets jobs at the big universities and whose work gets published

Through these methods they decide what consensus reality is by creating 'conventional wisdom' and by this method they mould in the minds of the public what is perceived as 'credible'

 

[Shaqie]

Scientism is self-refuting.
The claims of people that science has precede or dismissed philosophy, is a false claim and also self-refuting.

This is the argumentative equivalent of Head Shot!

 

[Tin Man]

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/philosophers-must-oppose-arrogance-of-scientism-1.1656080

Quite an interesting article and relevant to the discussion on the scientific method. The author is Irish so what he says must be true.

Philosophers must oppose arrogance of scientism

The modern world runs on science-based technology, and nobody seriously disputes the importance of science.
This importance has tempted many eminent scientists to adopt a dismissive attitude called “scientism” towards other disciplines. Scientism applies science to address questions in areas where science has no competence. But scientism is simply wrong, and might have disastrous consequences for science if allowed to develop. Philosophy has an important role in identifying areas where science has competence, but, by and large, philosophers are not confronting scientism.
Scientism comes in stronger and weaker forms. The robust form claims that science is the only valid way of seeking knowledge. The weaker doesn’t go that far, but it inappropriately applies science to a wide range of questions.
The strong form is a ridiculous claim espoused by few scientists. One scientist who does espouse it is biologist Richard Lewontin, who has said: “In order to properly understand the universe, people should reject irrational and supernatural explanations of the world and accept a social and intellectual apparatus, science, as the only begetter of truth.” (New York Review of Books, 1997.)
The weaker form is frequently directed against religion by prominent scientists. In a BBC2 Newsnight TV programme in 2009, Richard Dawkins made the ignorant statement: “God has the same status as fairies.” In other words, according to Dawkins, belief in God is childishly unreasonable. But Dawkins doesn’t enlighten us as to what aspects of the fairy philosophy of life rival the mature philosophy of Christianity. It is, of course, reasonable to be a Christian – anybody who doubts that should read, for example, the books written by the mathematical physicist and Anglican theologian John Polkinghorne, such as Quarks, Chaos and Christianity.
I think the extreme stance of Dawkins and others against religion stems from the fact that these scientists are fundamentalist materialists. Materialism is the philosophical belief that nothing exists except the material: that is, matter and energy. Therefore the supernatural doesn’t exist and religion is nonsense. However, materialism is a philosophy that has not – and probably cannot – be proved.

Materialism and science
Science studies the natural world. It is materialistic in its method but not in its philosophy. Science does not deny the supernatural, it simply has nothing to say about it. Science and religion address different aspects of reality and do not contradict each other, as noted by the eminent science writer Stephen J Gould in his book Rocks of Ages. It is not necessary to be a materialist to be a scientist. Most of the great scientists in history were Christians and, today, about 40 per cent of scientists believe in a personal God.
It is reasonable to be a materialist. But, since materialism is unproven, materialists must accept that, no matter how improbable it seems to them, there is a possibility they might be wrong and a supernatural dimension might exist. Materialists are therefore obliged to respect the position of religious people who believe in the supernatural but accept all that science has and will discover. Of course, religious people have an equivalent obligation towards materialists.
Those who espouse scientism are scathing not only of religion but of philosophy in general. For example, the eminent chemist Peter Atkins says in his article Science as Truth (History of the Human Sciences, 1995): “I consider it to be a defensible proposition that no philosopher has helped to elucidate nature; philosophy is but the refinement of hindrance.” And Stephen Hawking, in his book The Grand Design (2010), says: “We wonder, we seek answers: What is the nature of reality? Where did all this come from? Did the universe need a creator? Traditionally, these are questions for philosophy, but philosophy is dead. Philosophers have not kept up with modern developments in science”. One would imagine that such comments would cause a storm of public protest from philosophers, but no such storm has arisen. Why not?
Throughout the 20th century, philosophers have been content to politely applaud science from the sidelines. Science now thanks philosophy by declaring it dead. One very important function of philosophy is to identify scientific questions. This is important in order to keep science from going off the rails. Philosophy is not doing its job.

 

[sprinkles]

Just to edit myself...the LHC is more like a bunch of cave-men with no knowledge of circuitry or electricity smashing a computer to it’s smallest bits to figure it out

You kinda have to do that when you don't know about something because you can't see nor detect it.

How did we find out what was in air without knowing what was in air already? If you don't know what's there then you can't devise a correct plan to discover it, so really you have to do some random nonsense until you stumble on some clues that you can use to refine the search basically.

Air consists of something like:
Nitrogen 78.084%
Oxygen 20.9476%
Argon 0.934%
Carbon Dioxide 0.0314%
Neon 0.001818%
Methane 0.0002%
Helium 0.000524%
Krypton 0.000114%
Hydrogen 0.00005%
Xenon 0.0000087%
Ozone 0.000007%
Nitrogen Dioxide 0.000002%
Iodine 0.000001%
Carbon Monoxide trace
Ammonia trace

We couldn't devise strategies to detect these individually until we figured out how to separate air and discover what was in it - a pretty tall order without knowing what is in air to know how to separate it in the first place. William Ramsay and Morris Travers discovered the noble gasses through liquified air experiments. That's a pretty big hunch, especially considering that they'd have to get their head around the entire idea of liquid air to begin with - a concept that is foreign to most people's natural perception of air. It goes against what most people know about air since it takes very cold temperature to make it liquid, which almost nobody has access to without trying pretty hard to specifically cause it.

There's no way the noble gases would have been discovered through just natural observation and experiments based on normal perceptions, They had to go out of their way and do something wild - something that doesn't typically happen on earth, and turn air into a liquid.

 

[sprinkles]

[MENTION=5667]Jacobi[/MENTION]

I call BS. Materialism doesn't have anything to say about religion or the supernatural. It just says that anything which is, is material.

There could be a God and the entire Bible could be true for all we know, and it could still work even if you define it all as material. God would be more of a god if God had a material reason to be. "God can't be physical!" Well why the fuck not??

What's so damn important about supernatural? What kind of mindfuck reasons do we need to keep maintaining the idea of it?

Using materialism to say that 'there is no supernatural and therefore no God' is full on retarded. It just says that supernatural is not a thing.

The view of materialism is simply that anything which interacts with material with given laws should also be material. To take away material you must also take away any definitions or workings because you're left with nothing to define or cause things to be. Without material a thing can't be itself - even abstractions must be conveyed through states of material.