I do think it's a shame that they're often discussed by the two opposite ends of the spectrum. There are many people in between these two schools of thought that have different perspectives.

I do understand that these are mainstream ideologies- but as I said above, it's because they are the largest schools of thought. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with them, I'm just suggesting that the reason these two are discussed so much more than other sects is because they've been studied so much more, and are connected to the majority of the world- especially in America where Christianity is the primary religion. I just think that if we share with people that there are different perspectives, it'll might encourage them to understand more sides of the debate. If people begin to get interested and see there are other ways of seeing this topic, other ideologies may become more popular.


In the end- the video wasn't pushed down the public's throat, it was only there for the interested- so I don't see the harm, especially around controlling the media for the public. And I only posted it because I thought it would be interesting for anyone to see duelling perspectives debate - especially with entertaining debaters!

I think that its great that you posted the video... if there is anything you want to share you should, simply because you want to. No harm in discussing things.
Christianity is a major religion, and quite popular in some parts of the world, but there are also many other major religions. In 'our' anglo centric culture, christianity is the dominant religion. Most religions are not just about a belief in a deity or way of explaining the world, but also come with specific dogma and law and systems of authority. They are cultural institutions, some of them are complete with authority figures, punitive systems...basically they are social systems that are highly invested in controlling perception. It is often these highly dogmatic aspects of religion that make the idea of 'God', 'creation', and spirituality so inaccessible to people. Religions are...so human- designed for the ego, they offer us some of the absolute best and worst in human nature. They are a perception mould- 'beliefs are the eyelids of the mind' (zindell). Many people get consumed in the detail and miss the bigger picture..close off perception. It furthers the us/them/ mine/yours separation mindset. Many people invested in religion become attached because of reasons such as fear and guilt. Rather than just exploring their mind and experience openly, tapping into their innate spirituality and relationship with other people, the universe, the Divine, it becomes about about a bunch of petty details written in some books and spoken by some people.
Because of christian monopoly in our culture, when we discuss concepts such as creation and spirituality, for many it reverts back to a debate about details in that book. I dont think that that book doesnt deserve to be discussed, because it does...it is a valuable source of knowledge....i just wish that it didnt monopolise and contextualise so much of the debate. Why does a created world have to be 6000 years old? Its just distracting! But still, it is all valid and worth discussing, i know that religion is important to a lot of people. Their religion may not be important to me, but the people that follow them still are.
 
[MENTION=4956]charlene[/MENTION]

Anything is probably worth discussing at some point or other.

What got me with that video is that once again it was made a contest. A controversy. An inherently divided practice of two people saying that the other is wrong.

I don't have as much of a problem with what as I do with how. Why does it need to continue to be an argument?

I'm so flustered at this point that I managed to misplace my requisite puzzle cube and couldn't find it for about 15 minutes. That's serious. I am just really, really tired of it. I'm tired of the format of it. Especially how it can be used to make either side look like a fool. When the comment from Pat Robertson came up that just totally snapped it for me. The fact that it's on Huff Post like it's some kind of news is especially triggering to me.
 
[MENTION=4956]charlene[/MENTION] [MENTION=10252]say what[/MENTION]

And to further make my case, people around the internet are now posting that Nye won the debate, and that Ham is basically stupid and brainwashed and of course there's fights going on in the comments section of the relevant blogs.

So helpful this is!
 
This debate, creationism vs evolutionism, is not just in christian cultures or communities, its in Islam countries, and pretty much all over the world. The main debate is between Theism vs Naturalism. Theism is the real threat to any other views, be it Naturalism, Hinduism and even Deism. The atheists don't find any threat in Hinduism or Buddhism, but any theistic religion is a big threat to naturalism, especially Christianity.

Yes, you're right, these debates occur cross culturally. I dont necessarily think the debate is just about naturalism vs theism, its more about people trying to understand themselves, the world they live in..work out the 'truth'. But because of all these labels, and dogmas, our fragile egos and attachments to them, it becomes just about defending and attacking ideas. Prooving and disprooving the mainstream perceptions. Sometimes it is not possible to have open communication when one is so highly invested/attached to something. The question is...does it even have to be a debate? Does there need to be any threats? Why not an open exploration? Some tolerance for uncertainty, dropping some labels and just being open?

It depends of what angle one is looking. If your starting from the premises of Naturalism, there is no creation at all, just blind evolution. If you start from the premises of Hinduism, there is no Creation and no Evolution, there is just Everything. But in the Theistic framework, there is just creation, and also what one might call micro-evolution.

Yes it depends entirely on perception, much like everything. Many Hindus (not all!) do believe in creation, their intepretation is just different from Christianity. Here is a link to some creation stories from different cultures/religions - http://www.innovationslearning.co.uk/subjects/re/information/creation/creation_home.htm.


This is happening only to people who are ignorant. But the scientists and philosophers know very much what they are talking about.
I dont know if thats true, but i certainly hope it is, and it is possible.

You say your philosophy has nothing to do with the major world religions, yet this is a form of classic Hisduism :D
Lol, its very interesting that you say that...many people have said the same. Even when i was a young child people said that. My mum used to be a Hindu before she converetd to Christianity when she married my dad. We had people in our life that were Hindu, Buddhist, Jain, Seikh, Muslim, Athiest, and ofcourse many Christians. Although i doubted the existance and the relavance of 'God' at times, there are other things that i have always believed in/understood such as reincarnation and the idea that we 'create reality' (now i understand that as project illusion). I didnt question those ideas until i was older, but when i was younger, it was very easy and natural to tap into past life experience and communication with the entities all around us. Because my environment was christianised, they referred to me as a witch, and possesed by some sort of evil hindu demon! But at other times they thought that maybe i was blessed by the christian God. Anyway...those good old days, all over now.
There is much of the major religions beliefs that i find fascinating and even 'true'. I take some from Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism. And then theres Kabbalah, New Age Movement, Holism, Shamanism, Paganism, Druidism, gnostism, alchemy, and ofcourse mysticism. And tools like tarot, astrology, divination, 'magic'. And then theres the sciences, philosophy, psychology. And ofocurse my personal experience, life, people, the world! But it's all selective. I take what i want/need from all of them, and some from my personal knowledge and experience. i dont see why there is any need to swallow the whole tree when a piece of the fruit will suffice. Or to hold onto to anything. It is the knowledge/spiritual experience i want, not the kool aid and cultural institution. Why is there any need to choose one? Or any at all...i believe that any sincere seeking, reaching out to the awe of 'being' will lead us Home. It is all about the Love! Love really is everything, it is consciousness, it is God, it is our nature, its everything. I dont think any of the religions/sciences/arts have the whole picture, although some are very close... they are all trying to point at the sun. The Sun is beyond detail, it cannot be contained and understood through something as fickle as words! We have enough cultural barriers separating us humans anyway, why create more? Although, admittedly, some religions are very inclusive and are based on limiting separation. I do admire that about religions like hinduism, in the sense that its so open and broad, no set dogmas etc. If there are a hundred hands pointing to the sun, why not look to see where they are all pointing? No reason to just pick one and get caught up in/consumed simply in the hand thats pointing. But i still dont see any real spiritual purpose for religion. It is a framework that can get people started, and point the way, but God is not something to be found in the pages of a book, a human constructed building, or a 'leader'. These things may help, but they are not the one way. The way is within All! The 'Christ' Is. God Is. I didnt find God through any religion, i recognised God when i let go. It is not possible for me to deny God having experienced Source energy. I have an ecletic spiritual experience. Shekinah is my guide, my Mother. I serve Her because of Love. Since ive been doing 'a course in miracles' i regularly communicate with Jesus. Ive been seeking help from and working with Angels for some time now. I still talk to my other guides and many others. Do meditations and yoga. Work with the energy of Earth. And enjoy being here on Earth and the people, animals, plants, and environment around me, All That Is.
 
[MENTION=4956]charlene[/MENTION]

Anything is probably worth discussing at some point or other.

What got me with that video is that once again it was made a contest. A controversy. An inherently divided practice of two people saying that the other is wrong.

I don't have as much of a problem with what as I do with how. Why does it need to continue to be an argument?

I'm so flustered at this point that I managed to misplace my requisite puzzle cube and couldn't find it for about 15 minutes. That's serious. I am just really, really tired of it. I'm tired of the format of it. Especially how it can be used to make either side look like a fool. When the comment from Pat Robertson came up that just totally snapped it for me. The fact that it's on Huff Post like it's some kind of news is especially triggering to me.

I absolutely understand that! Really. I have these times too.....its a zombie apocalyspe...just have to tune out of it....focus on whats real beneath

I hope you find the puzzle cube.

And Love and Blessings to you my friend
 
I absolutely understand that! Really. I have these times too.....its a zombie apocalyspe...just have to tune out of it....focus on whats real beneath

I hope you find the puzzle cube.

And Love and Blessings to you my friend

Yeah I found it. It was in the kitchen. I don't know why I left it there, it's not supposed to belong there. Which may be why I didn't remember putting it there because I wouldn't have put it there if I knew what I was doing, so there would be nothing to remember because it does not compute. If I would have remembered it then I would have known what I was doing and if I knew what I was doing, it wouldn't have happened - or at least there'd be a good excuse for it.
 
Yeah I found it. It was in the kitchen. I don't know why I left it there, it's not supposed to belong there. Which may be why I didn't remember putting it there because I wouldn't have put it there if I knew what I was doing, so there would be nothing to remember because it does not compute. If I would have remembered it then I would have known what I was doing and if I knew what I was doing, it wouldn't have happened - or at least there'd be a good excuse for it.

yeah exactly!
...that makes sense to me
 
Like finding the house keys in the freezer it makes sense. :P

Well...true story...recently the family and i went on holiday. We came back and found the house was locked, sis had gone out and locked the door! None of us have owned a key for years. We dont lock the doors. And i seem to lose keys easily, it seemed practical to forgo them. So we had to break into our own home! Luckilly, all my room windows were wide open still from how i left them. Theres actually a trampoline with a step stair right outside the window. And a few sticky spiderwebs we had to push aside to climb up unfortuantely. Ive been trying to make sure i dont disrupt/hurt any animals or plants lately so i felt bad disrupting those spiders. Breaking in was easy and pretty silly, cause my window is at the front of house, so the neighbours could see what we were doing. Clearly...we are not security conscious at our place! We climbed in and opened the door, it was pretty funny... bloody keys
 
[MENTION=10252]say what[/MENTION]
Do you discuss something because you want to, or do you discuss something because somebody else thinks its a good idea to do so?

Is my view not equally worthy of discussion?

Also why is Christianity so prominent? Is it because it's just awesome, or is it because the state church of the Roman Empire made it a crime to be anything else?


I discuss it because I want to learn more. There's value in discussing things other than fringe opinions. Your opinion is worthy of discussion, as is mine.

The popularity of Christianity isn't new...it's not a thing of this age. Same with the idea of creationism. Has the church done horrible things throughout history- yes...but some would say that just because Christians do horrible things, it doesn't mean they were being Christians. It's important to understand how Christianity influenced our understanding of the world, because it has been so prominent throughout our history. To disregard it's influence simply because it's popular is ignoring a huge piece of the puzzle.


[MENTION=4956]charlene[/MENTION]



What got me with that video is that once again it was made a contest. A controversy. An inherently divided practice of two people saying that the other is wrong.

I don't have as much of a problem with what as I do with how. Why does it need to continue to be an argument?


This is the premise of a debate. It's not an argument, it's discussing two sides of a topic that will likely never be answered.



Yeah. I do mess with people. I think if you really want to think, you occasionally need to be jarred a bit. No?

It's too easy to get lazy. "Debates still have informational value." I suppose they do. Does it require the confrontational format? Is a contest necessary to convey the information?

What I'm challenging here is the very act of the argument itself, not necessarily the contents of either side. Motives and methods are what I'm questioning.


I understand your passion and that you're trying to challenge traditional ideologies, but (IMO) you're doing exactly what you're saying you have a problem with. There's a fine line between a discussion and a debate. Challenging an individual and suggesting that they're lazy or unable to think for themselves is confrontational. You don't get people to open up and appreciate and learn new ideas by suggesting that their line of thinking is just wrong- you do this by getting them to ask themselves questions about their own beliefs, you present them with perspectives and facts that cause them to reevaluate what they know.


I don't think this is the thread to debate the merits of Christianity. I appreciate your opinion and think it's great that you question where information comes from and the intention of those presenting it; but I'd rather not derail this tread with this discussion.
 
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@allofyouarguing
 
I, on the other hand, stand fast with the whole armor of God. To bring up Merkaba and present it as it has been presented in so many ways, is like asking for Christian perspective to match the 0101 with an 0101. Cannot see myself just sitting on a park bench eying little girls with sad intent(Tull).

Power and the mind are awesome, and if a person knows more than others he is a magician? Bawhahaha. If that person is called a light, is it so wrong? We must be careful what we feed others, of course; but, we need be cautious how we feed them, too, for they have a mind of their own.
 
I, on the other hand, stand fast with the whole armor of God. To bring up Merkaba and present it as it has been presented in so many ways, is like asking for Christian perspective to match the 0101 with an 0101. Cannot see myself just sitting on a park bench eying little girls with sad intent(Tull).

Power and the mind are awesome, and if a person knows more than others he is a magician? Bawhahaha. If that person is called a light, is it so wrong? We must be careful what we feed others, of course; but, we need be cautious how we feed them, too, for they have a mind of their own.


Ya their called your kids lol....

Tis true though. I think that might be a good reason to meditate and practice not thinking and just being. No thought no action just still. In that state one does not have to worry about the distractions of the mind. One can leave all that there. That is the state I am heading for. I have no idea where I am going I am just following what my inner self is telling me to do. I think everyone is doing that to some extent. I see myself as being very open if I could do this. The end result of being that open is usually martyrdom. I see my life ending anyhow. So how is one death any better or worse? Either way it's gonna happen. You got nothing to lose really. Your ticket is already punched. Your on the train. You just don't know how far down the tracks you will get.
 
[MENTION=95]efromm[/MENTION], you know the destination is just one part of it all. Fifteen seconds is like a lifetime when trying to shut the world out. The mind: a distraction to some folk; to others, a gateway to knowledge, wisdom, and understanding. Why shut it out. I am. That is a state of being. I rather pray than try and meditate. Breath control. Heart rate control. I want my mind to be free. To each his own, though.

Kids? Heh
 
[MENTION=95]efromm[/MENTION], you know the destination is just one part of it all. Fifteen seconds is like a lifetime when trying to shut the world out. The mind: a distraction to some folk; to others, a gateway to knowledge, wisdom, and understanding. Why shut it out. I am. That is a state of being. I rather pray than try and meditate. Breath control. Heart rate control. I want my mind to be free. To each his own, though.

Kids? Heh

Why shut it out? Because the mind can lie to you. The wisdom I find is what I hear when I am silent. Maybe for you it is different. To each their own. We are all on our own paths in life.
 
To think of nothing in this world for fifteen minutes is the task I was speaking about. [MENTION=95]efromm[/MENTION]
 
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@allofyouarguing

Forget the cookies and the cake....I wish everyone could go back to discussing the Merkaba and sacred geometry and how when we finally make it to that level of understanding we can manipulate nothing into something.

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To think of nothing in this world for fifteen minutes is the task I was speaking about. [MENTION=95]efromm[/MENTION]

I must have not read that in your post or misunderstood you sorry my bad. Quite frankly I am about to give on this stuff. No matter how hard I try to change or be better I am still the same old piece of shit. Maybe this is how I am supposed to be. The curse of me... Again sorry. I really don't know anything nor should I try too...
 
I must have not read that in your post or misunderstood you sorry my bad. Quite frankly I am about to give on this stuff. No matter how hard I try to change or be better I am still the same old piece of shit. Maybe this is how I am supposed to be. The curse of me... Again sorry. I really don't know anything nor should I try too...

If your soul is on fire, don't stop.
 
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