Perceptions of "unattractive" people

[Asa]

It is crap like this that just black pills anyone who happens to look into the abyss when it comes to issues like this and it just doesn't only affect women but men as well especially when like 80% are regarded as undesirable by society's increasingly unreachable standards. Just comes to show why so many under 40 are dropping out altogether while the top 20% or so have all their fun as most relationships are just so disposable without there really being any real connection these days.

While I do think it happens to women just as much because the standards are narrowing for everyone, I agree we need to talk more about the men in this situation. It's insane how disposable relationships are now and how that affects how people treat each other.

 

[Gu33]

Times are tough out there for the ladies. Men do face some issues but I wouldn’t say to the same extent. Any tips from your experiences on how to help my daughter feel confident in her looks regardless of how they turn out?

 

[Linda Loo]

Times are tough out there for the ladies. Men do face some issues but I wouldn’t say to the same extent. Any tips from your experiences on how to help my daughter feel confident in her looks regardless of how they turn out?

Honestly, I would focus on inner beauty, but that's just me.

 

[Peppermint]

Times are tough out there for the ladies. Men do face some issues but I wouldn’t say to the same extent. Any tips from your experiences on how to help my daughter feel confident in her looks regardless of how they turn out?

I think a big one for this that often gets overlooked is doing sports regularly. It helps prevent obesity, but it also makes one in tune with their body, amazing things it can accomplish, giving a different positive appreciation of what their body can do, appreciation for its strength and flexibility. It also helps bonding with peers.

 

[dZpADTLrPmX4c]

Something that may be of benefit to think:

Attractiveness is not a quality of the person or thing deemed so...even if the language would suggest otherwise. Though often said in the form of ____ is/are attractive, what has actually occurred is the individual expressing as such has had the inner experience of feeling attraction toward someone or something. Nothing has actually been said about the person or thing deemed attractive. As such, there’s no reason to take it personally.

Of course, feel as you wish (or not) about someone speaking to their inner experience. Regardless of what they say, it’s about them, not you.

As is said...beauty is in the eye of the beholder...(not the person or thing deemed beautiful).

Cheers,
Ian

I feel like you've the best intentions to solve emotional experiences with logic. It's not terribly effective in my experience, though I appreciate that you're forthright and well-meaning, and it does work sometimes.

I also suspect you may have the wrong idea about my post (or that I do about yours!), but that's okay ^_^ that can be fun sometimes, like a guessing game, and it's not like we've talked at lengths.

 

[April]

Say it again for the people in the back. Spot on. Some won’t want to hear it, but it’s this...exactly this.

Two things I really like about what you said here...First, if you don’t like the situation, you change what you actually have control over...yourself. Second, if you want something, take responsibility for your want, and demonstrate you have by taking action, thereby reinforcing the first part.

It’s often said by lonesome people in posts online that no attention is given to them, but in describing their situation it becomes clear they are choosing to be passive by waiting for something to happen, sometimes for years. Of course, that could be due to an issue or issues they aren’t being forthright about, perhaps even to themself. The other noticeable thing is the language used. What I mean by this this is the tone and choice of words often suggest the poster’s state of mind. Many times there are shadings of negativity, whether it be pessimism, engaging in magical thinking to explain their situation, cynicism, traces of bitterness, resentment, or a flat dejection, which communicates a kind of resignation or defeat.

Feelings like those are certainly valid, but I sometimes get the sense there’s a significant lack of insight that would help recognize how expressing negative energy like that will spoil your efforts in other ares because people are actively turned off by that kind of mindset, especially the idea of it in a partner.

Which isn’t to say be inauthentic...it’s more a question of changing the way one thinks, and changing one’s outlook. You know, like when you said “act warmer, friendlier, funny, and accepting. Be respectful, be kind.”

The #1 factor in a person appearing attractive to other people, or not, is that person’s attitude, full stop.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[April]

There is also the other side to consider.

I've heard very attractive people complain that they were only treated a certain way because of their looks. I've thought of this a lot and have come to the conclusion that while, yes, I would love to be insanely beautiful... I'm actually glad that I'm not. Because who could I trust to love me for me? It must be so exhausting to have to weed out all the shallow people who treat you right for the wrong reasons. I'm glad I don't have that problem. When you're average or ugly, and someone genuinely likes you, it's easier to determine why.

 

[slant]

I am sorry but this is one of those subjects that unless you've dealt with it, you really shouldn't talk about it. People often reduce this issue to health, but that's only one part of the story. The medical community has made it a thing to target people who are not the standard weight and make them feel self-conscious and bad about it, even when it is not the main issue or cause of a visit. I have been treated rudely like I was nothing because I was overweight. Doubly, if you are a woman of color. They are often insensitive, patronizing, or overly simplistic in their diagnoses because they want to blame having weight on for everything, even if it is not the issue. There are so many cases of women finally sharing their stories of medical issues being overlooked or concerns being dismissed because the doctor rushed to judge the issue as weight-related.

Another thing is, my weight is mine and mine alone to discuss. If I would like advice on it, I will ask. Otherwise, I shouldn't be subject to someone's opinion or judgment about it unless they are directly affected by it, they are directly involved with me, and care about me the person. I know I have a weight issue. I don't need someone to tell me that. The focus should be health, not my weight alone. I can be healthy and not be small. That's a fact.

I remember having family members as a child call attention to weight as the first thing they notice and commenting on it publicly in front of others to shame. Honestly, someone's weight is no one's business, unless you are affected by being in this person's life and are involved with them in some way.

Being fit or overweight/obese is not a moral issue. It is treated this way in society- judging somebody's "worth" as whether they appear to be a healthy weight or not.

That's wrong. It's a heavy stigma and felt at all angles. I was morbidly obese the majority of my life. I get it.

I do want to chime in here though to say that not all people who have been or are obese feel other people don't have the right to speak about it. I felt that @aeon s post was extremely well laid out.

Who I am, whether I'm lovable or valuable, has not changed based on what I weigh. But seeing my own value did. When I did change my lifestyle and I felt good about myself and my choices, I gained confidence. I used to not be about to walk up hills. Going up stairs left me winded. My quality of life definitely suffered because of my obesity.

I believe that we can both acknowledge the value and worth of *everyone* regardless of how they look, while also understanding that doctors are medical professionals that have to prevent illness and being obese causes illness. Same with a doctor telling smokers to stop smoking. Are three doctors who blame everything on weight and do not fully investigate? Yes. But there are also occasions where the being obese makes it difficult to diagnose certain conditions, in the same way that when I was obese and went to donate plasma they had a hard time finding my veins, and when I've gone post weight loss, they've told me I have amazing easy veins.

I don't disagree with your opinion- it's your right to have it and we have a shared experience. I just wanted it to be clear that not everybody who is obese or has been obese thinks those who haven't gone through it don't have the right to have an opinion on it.

 

[Gaze]

I don't disagree with your opinion- it's your right to have it and we have a shared experience. I just wanted it to be clear that not everybody who is obese or has been obese thinks those who haven't gone through it don't have the right to have an opinion on it.

I already responded to @aeon about this.

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion. I shouldn't have said that you shouldn't speak about this since you clearly have some experience. We don't need to have the same opinion. And that's ok.

 

[Anomaly]

Times are tough out there for the ladies. Men do face some issues but I wouldn’t say to the same extent. Any tips from your experiences on how to help my daughter feel confident in her looks regardless of how they turn out?

I would say put the focus on having a healthy body that she feels good about, instead of a particular type of 'looks' that may be unattainable for her because of body type or genetics. Healthy body meaning including the mind (does she have a balanced life that allows her to destress in positive ways, time cultivating learning or pushing herself in challenging thought exercises, etc.), and social-emotional development (treating others with respect, listening skills, turn-taking, advocating for/encouraging others, understanding boundaries, etc.). When people have a healthy body, it builds confidence. Further, take away all illusions of perfection by showing her how photoshopped, covered in makeup, those in the media are.

 

[slant]

I already responded to @aeon about this.

Yeah I was still reading the thread as I was responding, I tend to do that. That is often why my posts seem so behind and out of sync with as thread because my ADHD brain wants me to reply to things as I read them lest I forget. That's my fault.

 

[slant]

This could be a slippery slope though. I think it's also important to note that in "taking action", a person, hopefully, isn't only redefining one's physical appearance because of the search for validation from others. It runs the risk of exerting extensive effort for a societal value that may not at all be that important. I say this because when I was in my teens, I was hell bent on watching my body to stay at par with societal peer pressures. I wasn't sure that this was helping myself esteem either. What I do know was that when I actually "let go" (to hell with calorie counts!!!), I was rather given up about most things. Attaining what I wanted was always an uphill battle as I am genetically predisposed to weight gain. My cousin's wife was reacted upon by my aunt recently because she had finally been gaining weight --- "oh finally! You're looking like you belong to family!". That was a very rude remark, I know, but it happens. I'm trying to say, the independence of choice remains paramount.

Fighting against ugliness is a rather expensive plight too. Make up is expensive, what more of scientific interventions that cut through jaws and noses? I don't think it's fair nor nice to pressure anyone into such change on the account of what is simply wanted and especially not if it's built upon being accepted by something normative. Although to advise for one to "accept oneself" is equally inane for that is a rather tall order too.

All in all, I just wanted to point out that it generally isn't that easy to go for what we want. Things like these are daily battles. Where I want to stand is to accept people in whatever stages they are in their life. The same applies for beautiful people too. Someone can be rather beautiful but be more broken in several ways than one; we all need our breathing spaces whatever we look like.

I do agree that embarking on such a change is important if it stands to damage a person's outlook in life but it's critical that we know why we're doing it too. All change is superfluous anyway and we don't know which way anyone of us are going toward. I think it's nice to change ourselves somewhat but it must also be carefully done.

Thanks for this post. Even though I have lost the weight, I still have an eating disorder/body dysmorphia. So really losing the weight didn't "fix" the problem that got me there in the first place which was trauma and low self esteem.

That being said, a person in a larger body can definitely work on their trauma and self esteem and eliminate those issues/be in a better place.

There is definitely fear of returning to the way I was and experiencing the same social issues as before, but a lot of that is in my head. The open mic community has treated me the same in both forms that I've been. Strangers on the other hand is a different story. When you "solve" a problem like that you end up being extra vulnerable, in that I had to learn how to deflect unwanted attention, turn people down and avoid people who are superficial that I wouldn't know were that way unless I saw them interact with somebody who didn't meet the societal norms.

 

[mintoots]

There is definitely fear of returning to the way I was and experiencing the same social issues as before, but a lot of that is in my head. The open mic community has treated me the same in both forms that I've been. Strangers on the other hand is a different story. When you "solve" a problem like that you end up being extra vulnerable, in that I had to learn how to deflect unwanted attention, turn people down and avoid people who are superficial that I wouldn't know were that way unless I saw them interact with somebody who didn't meet the societal norms.

I'm actually glad that I'm not. Because who could I trust to love me for me? It must be so exhausting to have to weed out all the shallow people who treat you right for the wrong reasons. I'm glad I don't have that problem. When you're average or ugly, and someone genuinely likes you, it's easier to determine why.

Twisted as it may sound, there is this part of me that would like to meet someone special at my heaviest weight because I want some sort of assurance that even at that, I wouldn't be abandoned. I think we all have our dark sides and love ought to power through those but the fear of abandonment is definitely there no matter the weight. I have these weird fears of what if I meet someone nice but then there are these silly thoughts of what if I get abandoned during the fattest pregnancy, if ever, or what if he's the kind of guy who'd go and look for another to bang eventually? It takes a lot of work from my end to trust that men aren't that shallow at all. There's this component of my being unable to trust my own taste in men -- what if I'm simply attracted to those that tend to be neglectful because I'm looking for my parents in them, or something? Surely, finding a partner isn't all that easy. I know love is more profound than all those fears combined but in this day and age when love is commodified, it's hard to determine which is real.

I'm sure that everyone have these sorts of fears though, men, women, all genders for sure so I know it's just in my head but the thought processing is just as adamant as my overrun sentences.

 

[Matty]

People make judgements about others all the time (constantly).

You can argue, or try to justify, that judgements on character, performance, or other factors are more legitimate than judgements on appearance, weight, smell, etc. But ultimately it probably comes down to taste or preference, and there's no arguments which hold.

What does bug me about the article is it's just more moaning and complaining about "others". Ugly people complain they're invisible, attractive people complain about being eyeballed, etc.

The inescapable reality is that some people will intensely dislike you, some people will like you excessively, and some will be ambivalent. Just stop complaining that everyone doesn't suit your unrealistic expectations.

 

[aeon]

in this day and age when love is commodified, it's hard to determine which is real.

I don’t know what your experience has been, or what it might be, but when I read this in your post I thought about it for a second, and I thought this: I used to think that too, that you would need to have absolutely keen discernment, the ability to intuit some deep and essential truth about a person in order to know.

But now being on the other side, I don’t think that any more. The experience of meeting the best friend I‘ve ever had, of knowing and being known, of being accepted and loved without condition for who I am, and offering the same in like kind and it being received, understanding one another’s expression as loving, having my friend and partner act in mutual reciprocity with me, being playful and laughing, continually being so other-focused I forget about myself...

It has been so uniquely singular in nature, particularly what I emphasized, that I now think it unmistakable. It is as subtle as a baseball bat to the side of the head. No butterflies, no anxiety, just a clarity and calm, a quiet radiant joy.

Like I said, I don’t know what your experience has been, or what it might be, but I have reason to think you’ll know with a kind of surety you don’t have words for.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[mintoots]

I don’t know what your experience has been, or what it might be, but when I read this in your post I thought about it for a second, and I thought this: I used to think that too, that you would need to have absolutely keen discernment, the ability to intuit some deep and essential truth about a person in order to know.

But now being on the other side, I don’t think that any more. The experience of meeting the best friend I‘ve ever had, of knowing and being known, of being accepted and loved without condition for who I am, and offering the same in like kind and it being received, understanding one another’s expression as loving, having my friend and partner act in mutual reciprocity with me, being playful and laughing, continually being so other-focused I forget about myself...

It has been so uniquely singular in nature, particularly what I emphasized, that I now think it unmistakable. It is as subtle as a baseball bat to the side of the head. No butterflies, no anxiety, just a clarity and calm, a quiet radiant joy.

Like I said, I don’t know what your experience has been, or what it might be, but I have reason to think you’ll know with a kind of surety you don’t have words for.

Cheers,
Ian

Thanks for this. I'll take this appreciatively.

 

[aeon]

Thanks for this. I'll take this appreciatively.

As it was intended, and may it be so. I do not know you, but I hope for your happiness and well-being regardless.

Best to You,
Ian

 

[aeon]

I feel like you've the best intentions to solve emotional experiences with logic.

You just might be right! Haha!

How You Self Sabotage?

Okay, more seriously now...no, that wasn’t my intention, to solve any problem, and I’m not sure there was a problem to begin with. I wanted to share the idea of “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” because it is a lens through which experiences, and even the thread title itself, can be viewed, perhaps leading to greater understanding.

And in any case, my sense is emotion occurs first, before thought, and it is what it is. Logic has no power to deny it whatsoever, and even if it did, I think it would be dangerous to use it that way. You can use all kinds of mental processes on emotion after the fact (denial, repression, sublimation), but my sense is that’s a bad idea too.

It's not terribly effective in my experience, though I appreciate that you're forthright and well-meaning, and it does work sometimes.

Well, it doesn’t change anything in the moment, but perhaps it can provide context in remembering an event and thinking about it later.

I also suspect you may have the wrong idea about my post (or that I do about yours!), but that's okay ^_^ that can be fun sometimes, like a guessing game, and it's not like we've talked at lengths.

My sense is when someone lets you know they find you attractive, two things occur:

1. that person expresses part of their internal experience of the world to you, and,
2. you have a feeling and thought in response to that stimulus, and those things trigger memories of other related experiences, and it can be difficult to put what is happening within you, in that moment, in context with what you felt and thought in the past when similar events occurred.

Do I understand you correctly?

I replied as I did because I wanted you to know that people will tell you that you are this or that, but in truth, you are above and altogether beyond those things, regardless of what other people think and say.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[dZpADTLrPmX4c]

If I may be so blunt, I didn't wish to dissect this with you. Perhaps another time?

Besides that, no I don't think we understand each other.

 

[aeon]

If I may be so blunt, I didn't wish to dissect this with you. Perhaps another time?

No problem, and just so you know, I appreciate when people are blunt.

Besides that, no I don't think we understand each other.

I’ll take your word for it.

Cheers,
Ian