Rape prevention and female self-defense

Krumplenump said:
I'd rather have a society where rape held a genuine deterrant rather than a society full of black belt women on tenter hooks waiting for someone to rape them.

That deterrant definately should not be cosy cells with ps2's and satellite TV. If they won't make prisons basic, bland but hygenic processing units that don't pander to inmates wishes 24/7 then I would support capital punishment for cases of child rape or for cases where the perpetrator was quite obviously evil and his crime had been prooven beyond reasonable doubt.
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Peoplw I know who have been to prison never described prison in this way. I think this is an unrealistic description.
 
What about the cases of men against men? AKA the forgotten and overlooked cases. Where I am at now, there have been 32 reproted cases of sexual assault, 31 were men against men.
 
uberrogo said:
What about the cases of men against men? AKA the forgotten and overlooked cases. Where I am at now, there have been 32 reproted cases of sexual assault, 31 were men against men.
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Yet just another example of why rape prevention when taught only as self-defense for women, isn't going to cut it.

Out of curiosity, generally speaking, where are you?
 
sookie said:
You raise a very valid point, indeed. I think that the violent toys, and games all comes down to parenting combined with education in schools. Schools are so focused on testing and achievement that social curriculum is going down the drain. This is so unfortunate.
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The lack of the social curriculum is ironically going to degrade average test score. I acquiesce, an " Ethics " class should be implemented to discuss issues like these, most boys ( as not all view women as ancillary to men) need to be taught that women are not ancillary to men and thus not to be viewed in such a retrogressive and unethical manner.

Raccoon Love said:
even though is mostly again woman, it is still possible against man, I was a victim myself when I was youner, which is why I am uncomfortable around the tpic, the topic is not only gender issues but the fact that human beings have always have the instinct to take advantage of those weaker to ge what they want you see it everywhre, and unfortunantly that's nature, tha's how the world is, and if we dont learn something for ourselves theirs nothing you can do about it.
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I'm sorry to hear about what happened to you in the past :(
 
mf said:
Yet just another example of why rape prevention when taught only as self-defense for women, isn't going to cut it.

Out of curiosity, generally speaking, where are you?
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Iraq
 
soulseeker said:
and men that they'd be real men <---as defined/described by mf
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I was talking more about men being raped by other men, but anyway.

mf said:
Yeah, rape is always rape, but a large majority are committed by men against women, thus making it a crime that predominately targets women, and is predominately committed by men. It's rape, but it's also a crime of power against gender/sexuality. Much like murder is murder, but it also can be a racial/hate crime. (Sorry, just not really sure where you were headed with that)


And to be clear to everyone, I'm all for everyone learning self-defense. You are responsible for your own defense. What I am against here, is the way we teach self-defense of women as rape prevention, and ignore many of the underlying issues.
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I guess I was asserting the fact that we polarize this issue a lot when we discuss, same with home abuse. We tend to think in terms of men rape women, which is largely true but is not always the case.
 
No, it's not always the case, but I would hesitate for us to get lost in semantics, I know a lot about this subject, and can pull figures out of my head on male and female rapes like I'm on Jeopardy about to win a million dollars. I'm usually the first person to say that it happens to men too, but I read this thread differently I guess.

The bigger questions here are something like:

"Do human predators naturally exist or can they be raised to not be?"
"Does protecting oneself mean that the protectee is at fault (or does protecting oneself make you more likely to be a victim?)?"
"Does being physically stronger give you 'might over right?' If it does, should it? If it doesn't, why not?
 
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Easy way to avoid this one. Men don't rape women, rapists do. Since I'm not one, I see no need to feel that I am in the same class as them regardless of my plumbing. :)

EDIT: This is like terrorists: A large number of terrorists may be muslim, but a small number of muslims are terrorists. Just because most rapists are men doesn't mean most men are rapists. :)
 
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Solar Empath said:
Easy way to avoid this one. Men don't rape women, rapists do. Since I'm not one, I see no need to feel that I am in the same class as them regardless of my plumbing. :)

EDIT: This is like terrorists: A large number of terrorists may be muslim, but a small number of muslims are terrorists. Just because most rapists are men doesn't mean most men are rapists. :)
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Yes, we must be very careful how we define things, or we will make the situation worse.
 
Moxie said:
No, it's not always the case, but I would hesitate for us to get lost in semantics, I know a lot about this subject, and can pull figures out of my head on male and female rapes like I'm on Jeopardy about to win a million dollars. I'm usually the first person to say that it happens to men too, but I read this thread differently I guess.

The bigger questions here are something like:

"Do human predators naturally exist or can they be raised to not be?"
"Does protecting oneself mean that the protectee is at fault (or does protecting oneself make you more likely to be a victim?)?"
"Does being physically stronger give you 'might over right?' If it does, should it? If it doesn't, why not?
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I know a lot about this subject as well, but what I don't know are exact stats. I've read reports that stated that 2 out of every 10 women are raped to reports that state nearly 8 out of 10 women are raped at some point in their lives.
 
I don't really care about the stats. The fact that it has happened to one person is more than enough. The fact that every hour people (in every country I'm guessing) are being victimized in this way is horrendous.
 
***To be clear***

I was never trying to dismiss that men get raped and that children get raped. Everyone is a potential victim of rape. My goal in this thread wasn't to polarize it as men vs women, or downplay that both sexes are victims of rape, rather to address the way we handle "rape education/prevention" for women specifically. A majority of rape victims are women, and a majority of rapists are men. That's not to say that men are rapists, or that all victims are women, I'm just focusing on the majorities for my discussion in this thread (but by all means, we can/should extrapolate this to rape in general).

I'm just saying this because I don't want anyone to misunderstand where I'm coming from.
 
Yield said:
Heh, I thought you'd say that.

Capital punishment is wrong. No matter how bad the situation is.
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Why? How is collecting all the dregs of society any better? And as you mentioned, housing them indefinitely would cause a housing crisis.
 
Skoffin said:
Why? How is collecting all the dregs of society any better? And as you mentioned, housing them indefinitely would cause a housing crisis.
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That still doesn't make killing people like that, right. Two wrongs don't make a right.
 
mf: regarding your original post.

I regard the systematic, ideologically guided, deprogramming of all young males away from male stereotypes to be a worse crime than the relatively rare crime of rape against women, because of whom the crime is commited against - children.

This artificial twisting of young minds and emotions will have consequences that may follow a man for 80 years or more. And such deprogramming would effectively be a type of violation, commited against the weaker members of society, without their consent.

Furthermore, it is a common saying among the elderly that one's body may be in bad shape, but thankfully one's mind is still sharp - this pointing to the fact that human life is far more than just bodily life - indeed, it is our minds which give us dignity, not our bodies, for no lower animal enjoys the dignity of humans, even if their bodies be stronger, or more dexterous, etc. Consequently, violation of a person's mind, emotions, personality or values is a greater crime than violation of his/her body - especially that of the young.

So, I utterly reject your proposed solution for preventing rape.

So that I may not be a nay-sayer without offering some solution, I suggest that rapists be summarily castrated. Somehow, such a punishment seems far more frightening than spending 20 years in gaol/jail.
 
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What is socially acceptable is definitely applicable to behavior of the majority of people. Times now are MUCH better than they used to be in this country in reference to how women are treated. I still believe we have a long ways to go.

Then again, when you teach men to embrace their feelings and be in touch, acting metro can be a side effect. I think a lot of men put up HEAVY resistance to embracing their feelings for either :

1.) Fear of looking like a child throwing a fit. Otherwise known as a "Bitch."
2.) Fear of being perceived as gay.

Women say that chivalry is dead, but I think these days are the golden years (so far) for women in modern societies. Plus, what woman would want to see their man constantly dueling to the death over conflicts? Ok, maybe some would, hehe.

My statements all make the assumption that you have to be emotionally understanding/expressive in order to treat a woman properly. Perhaps women could be treated properly even without that taking place! I am not sure.

Then again, a lot of women actually seek out these men that exhibit extreme strength and confidence that eventually gets turned towards the woman when there is no external conflict. This again is a misunderstood concept of what strength really is.

Self defense is indeed a band-aid and it can even enhance a negative perception of men. A good father will tell his son to NEVER strike a woman. This is sexist, yes, but I still dig it.

When I was in middle school I was walking home with a group of "friends" and one of them was a violent woman. Eventually they all convinced her to fight me, and I wouldn't touch her. She ended up getting a couple good hits on me, and I was made fun by all of the boys for getting beat up by a girl. Now that I look back on it, I shouldn't have felt the extreme shame that I did, I didn't realize they were all retards/immature.
 
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mf said:
***To be clear***

I was never trying to dismiss that men get raped and that children get raped. Everyone is a potential victim of rape. My goal in this thread wasn't to polarize it as men vs women, or downplay that both sexes are victims of rape, rather to address the way we handle "rape education/prevention" for women specifically. A majority of rape victims are women, and a majority of rapists are men. That's not to say that men are rapists, or that all victims are women, I'm just focusing on the majorities for my discussion in this thread (but by all means, we can/should extrapolate this to rape in general).

I'm just saying this because I don't want anyone to misunderstand where I'm coming from.
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HAHA, MF got misunderstood??? SAY IT AINT SO!
 
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