"Refugees" What is Europe thinking?

The fruits they bare will have us all remembering this time in history.
 
Oscillation said:
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This... is Earth. We live on this planet. Every event, all of our history, everyone we know and don't know, have taken place and lived on this single place. From here we hear childrens cry when born, and elderly take their last breath. Life... and death is taken place here, and, for what we know, this is the only place for it.

I don't firstly live in a nation or a culture of that nation, I live here on Earth, and while that might strike you as a extreme point of view, so be it! It's still true though! I have GREAT interest in the well being of all of humankind, and therefor I have almost no interest in the interest of one single nation - like Sweden. If Sweden gets worse for bringing in all the criminals, and all the muslims, and all the human trash you so eagerly speak of... bring it on! Because why would I care if the dust of the Earth is above the carpet... or under it? If we have crimes going on in one corner of the Earth or another, why would that make a differens? Oh, yes, it would only make a differens if I cared so much for my own life and the lifes of my near ones, that I cared more for them than others. Of course we care for our near ones, it's in our DNA, but why would I care more for them then, let's say, the man from Iraq that I never get the chance to say hello to? He might be evil! So be it, so am I! He might rape my sister... but that only tells me he already rapes others sisters, in Iraq. Our Swedish culture might vanish! Why do I care? As long as human value and christian* etics doesn't get comprimised, I will live on this planet. Aah, but see, that is the point of all this fear: what if human value and christian/western etics do get comprimised? Well, then we'll fight... just as we would fight for it even when the fight doesn't take place in our midst but far, far away.

So I will greet them with open arm, because I will not give up on this Earth. And if I die because of it, so be it. In 1000 years we will all have been dead for 900 years anyway. All that we cared for, all that we loved, will be long gone. Life!

I'm young, and probably dumb, but this is the way I see it now. And I sincerly hope that others would too, so that the interest of nations would decrease, and the interest of humankind would increase. Nations might fall.


*Christian etics: I use the term "christian", not as to point out the religious beliefs, but the influence that belief has had over the etics in Europe. You could argue the history of christian influences, but please, try to understand that I'm having a hard time finding a better word, and I'm not trying to find the perfect one. Hopefully you understand what I mean.
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untrue. We've landed on the moon.
 
I think it is ridiculous that SpecialEdition is being forced to censor herself.

that being said, what are the cultural expectations of a diverse group of middle easterners setting up shop in Europe? Do you think the refugees will make a successful transition into living the European lifestyle? How long do they get to stay? What happens if they don't leave?
 
[MENTION=7838]SpecialEdition[/MENTION] has shown me a side of her I like. She is passionate about what she is talking about, and speaks truths Somebody wants to hear. Muzzle not the truth. This is the first I have heard of censoring her. I personally am against censoring her.
 
just me said:
[MENTION=7838]SpecialEdition[/MENTION] has shown me a side of her I like. She is passionate about what she is talking about, and speaks truths Somebody wants to hear. Muzzle not the truth. This is the first I have heard of censoring her. I personally am against censoring her.
Click to expand...

I would not say that I necessarily feel censored, but I do feel that when being labelled as a racist the conversation has come to a point where it can no longer be productive. These kinds of subjects are already difficult to address even while trying to remain objective but also diplomatic and understanding of all sides of the coin. Unfortunately there are going to be people who read what I say and think I am an asshole and there are going to be other people who agree but may not necessarily want to speak up on their own. This is the kind of subject matter that has to be discussed fairly delicately because it can erode pretty quickly and honestly I am not chasing after such negative labels because I believe they're unfair and unwarranted.

It's an unsafe time for anyone to say anything that might be considered "controversial" because it will always be construed in one particular flavour which is unfavourable. I think that is the reason most people are reluctant to talk about how they feel about this situation - not just on the forum, but on any social media or even day to day conversation.

No one wants to turn people away that may end up dying as a result. No one wants to deny people asylum when they are suffering. No one wants to see a militant power rise and destroy lives and snowball when it gets too much power (except those driving the machine). In the same breath, no one wants to see their own homes, culture and country dismantled because there are people abusing the situation which overshadows those who needed all of our help in the first place. And that is the problem most people are not really focusing on.
 
I'll be the first one on the forum called or labeled more things than most. I'm a gun toting, God loving, white man that lives in the South.
 
Since i'm not from europe, my opinion haves it's own bias, but fwiw my country haves an extremely large portion of immigrants, and many are pretty recent, and actually many go for the money only. I don't see why people get so uptight regarding that, by what else do you think people migrate? Most of them work their ass off (specially illegals as a side note and i say this because i've seen it) ... Mind your own bussiness. Although this remains as a critique to people from my country who like to see these kinds of things through a pretty misguided perspective, i don't see how europe wouldn't be similar in some cases.
I would be careful with the propaganda of immigrants being the cause of increased disorder, and rape also about the assumption that they are taking resources by calling them economical refugees. I don't see it as racist, but way too eager to impart judgement on a situation that haves too many sides to it.

If you think Islam is so moderate, would you personally ever consider becoming a muslim woman?

*Suppressing chortle*
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Spain had muslims for about 1000 years, and as far as i know, they tolerated and even accepted christianity. Among spain and parts of iberia mainly, after the ocupation... which is much more than what can be said about catholicism around that time regarding tolerance.
 
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BrokenDaniel said:
Since i'm not from europe, my opinion haves it's own bias, but fwiw my country haves an extremely large portion of immigrants, and many are pretty recent, and actually many go for the money only. I don't see why people get so uptight regarding that, by what else do you think people migrate? Most of them work their ass off (specially illegals as a side note and i say this because i've seen it) ... Mind your own bussiness. Although this remains as a critique to people from my country who like to see these kinds of things through a pretty misguided perspective, i don't see how europe wouldn't be similar in some cases.
I would be careful with the propaganda of immigrants being the cause of increased disorder, and rape also about the assumption that they are taking resources by calling them economical refugees. I don't see it as racist, but way too eager to impart judgement on a situation that haves too many sides to it.



Spain had muslims for about 1000 years, and as far as i know, they tolerated and even accepted christianity. Among spain and parts of iberia mainly, after the ocupation... which is much more than what can be said about catholicism around that time regarding tolerance.
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I am not Catholic and will not run them down, but I am Christian. People have changed. Governments will be drained more than they can afford unless these people work to help pay for what they are /will be asking for. Will they change their education systems like the US did?
 
[MENTION=680]just me[/MENTION]

If anything i wanted to make a distinction that maybe it haves more to do with politics than beliefs, i wasn't really attacking catholicism, nor defending islam, as you said people change. As for the rest, well, i hope so. But then, i'm not from there, but i do believe that it's a pretty wild guess to assume that all refugees will be welcomed as if they are in a 4 star and rent free hotel, (or camping area to be more specific).
 
Just some articles. Use google chrome's translate to decide for yourself.

Concerns, refugees disappearing, refugees being recognized from their isis twitter photos, countries their concerns about the seer amounts of refugees,
oh and the German military being concerned about refugees being housed in their military bases with them.
http://www.spiegel.de/international...struggle-with-refugee-violence-a-1056393.html
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/606211/35-MILLION-migrants-Europe-Hungary-builds-second-fence
http://www.ibtimes.com/european-ref...s-landing-europe-are-syrian-un-report-2084862
http://www.infowars.com/video-musli...-europe-makes-beheading-gesture-to-tv-camera/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...scores-tourists-Tunisian-museum-massacre.html
http://www.merkur.de/lokales/erding...echtlinge-verschwunden-5688164.html?cmp=dnlmm
http://www.oe24.at/oesterreich/chronik/Oesterreicher-decken-sich-mit-Waffen-ein/209555400
http://www.preussische-allgemeine.de/nachrichten/artikel/bis-zu-16-millionen.html
http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachric...htlingen-zwingt-dorf-zur-wasser-rationierung/
https://translate.google.com/transl...chtlingskriminalitaet.html&edit-text=&act=url
https://www.rt.com/news/320428-german-village-house-refugees/
https://translate.googleusercontent...vojna/&usg=ALkJrhhXb1d2MjQ1mCve0PHrtZL6cshW9A
https://translate.google.at/transla...ope-zacala-vojna-europa-mobilizuje/&sandbox=1
http://www.prisonplanet.com/hundred...ocal-authorities-clueless-where-they-are.html
https://www.compact-online.de/brandbrief-aus-der-bundeswehr-wir-muessen-uns-als-volk-erheben/
http://www.prisonplanet.com/report-...blonde-swedish-girls-by-people-smugglers.html


Or perhaps if videos are more your thing, it sure beats all that reading:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg2lKT_Jr8E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_XHkgScOSY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=putezSS32m8
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=836_1444066661
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=putezSS32m8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkIocH91j0w (Watch the whole video, he also point on the fertility issue from housels video)
http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...ut-slow-internet-boredom-at-netherlands-camp/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7d7IZdFZH0
https://youtu.be/d8n-eo5fDYU?t=91
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BDqzmG-rH8

Now I did take the effort to read all these articles, because I did not just want to copy and paste without knowing what I copy pasted.
That said, lots of these are from rather big news papers.

I could have linked more but I kinda gotta go to bed now. Whatever opinion you will form after reading these things is your own.
That said, I think it is understandable that people are concerned when the European newspapers are full of articles like these whilst most of our news and politicians tell us the opposite...
So yeah, whilst I agree we should help people truly in need, I also think we should be careful because "no good deed goes unpunished"
I'm done with this thread now, I don't like reading stuff like this.

All of this comes down to rape + attempted rapes + violence
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-claim-womens-rights-groups-politicians.html
http://www.telegraaf.nl/buitenland/24504548/___Vrouwen_in_azc_verkracht___.html
http://www.mx.dk/nyheder/danmark/story/16451053 / http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...woman-allegedly-raped-three-Eritrean-men.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...woman-allegedly-raped-three-Eritrean-men.html
https://www.rt.com/news/270214-bavaria-muslim-school-clothes/
http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachric...ngen-nur-mit-hilfe-der-bundeswehr-schlichten/
http://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de...Fluechtlinge-wuest-beschimpft-id35508097.html
http://www.wa.de/hamm/uentrop-ort37...polizeiliche-ermittlungen-dauern-5339731.html
http://www.rnz.de/politik/suedwest/...oilette-sexuell-missbraucht-_arid,116338.html
http://www.durlacher.de/start/neuig...ation-der-bevoelkerung-durch-die-polizei.html
https://messerattacke.wordpress.com...n-21-jahrige-und-brechen-ihr-gesichtsknochen/
http://www.abendzeitung-muenchen.de...aft.89331248-f395-4d28-9168-b8fb490a9820.html
https://mopo24.de/nachrichten/versuchte-vergewaltigung-meissen-7232
http://www.br.de/nachrichten/niederbayern/inhalt/prozess-vergewaltigung-deggendorf-100.html
http://www.polizei.bayern.de/unterfranken/news/presse/aktuell/index.html/218884
http://www.svz.de/mv-uebersicht/studentin-bedraengt-und-missbraucht-id8937191.html
http://www.pnp.de/region_und_lokal/...-Vergewaltigungen-Taeter-27-festgenommen.html
https://mopo24.de/nachrichten/Dresden-vergewaltigung-neustadt-marrokaner-7592
 
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Artisan said:
Just some articles. Use google chrome's translate to decide for yourself.

Concerns, refugees disappearing, refugees being recognized from their isis twitter photos, countries their concerns about the seer amounts of refugees,
oh and the German military being concerned about refugees being housed in their military bases with them.
http://www.spiegel.de/international...struggle-with-refugee-violence-a-1056393.html
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/606211/35-MILLION-migrants-Europe-Hungary-builds-second-fence
http://www.ibtimes.com/european-ref...s-landing-europe-are-syrian-un-report-2084862
http://www.infowars.com/video-musli...-europe-makes-beheading-gesture-to-tv-camera/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...scores-tourists-Tunisian-museum-massacre.html
http://www.merkur.de/lokales/erding...echtlinge-verschwunden-5688164.html?cmp=dnlmm
http://www.oe24.at/oesterreich/chronik/Oesterreicher-decken-sich-mit-Waffen-ein/209555400
http://www.preussische-allgemeine.de/nachrichten/artikel/bis-zu-16-millionen.html
http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachric...htlingen-zwingt-dorf-zur-wasser-rationierung/
https://translate.google.com/transl...chtlingskriminalitaet.html&edit-text=&act=url
https://www.rt.com/news/320428-german-village-house-refugees/
https://translate.googleusercontent...vojna/&usg=ALkJrhhXb1d2MjQ1mCve0PHrtZL6cshW9A
https://translate.google.at/transla...ope-zacala-vojna-europa-mobilizuje/&sandbox=1
http://www.prisonplanet.com/hundred...ocal-authorities-clueless-where-they-are.html
https://www.compact-online.de/brandbrief-aus-der-bundeswehr-wir-muessen-uns-als-volk-erheben/
http://www.prisonplanet.com/report-...blonde-swedish-girls-by-people-smugglers.html


Or perhaps if videos are more your thing, it sure beats all that reading:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg2lKT_Jr8E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_XHkgScOSY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=putezSS32m8
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=836_1444066661
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=putezSS32m8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkIocH91j0w (Watch the whole video, he also point on the fertility issue from housels video)
http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...ut-slow-internet-boredom-at-netherlands-camp/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7d7IZdFZH0
https://youtu.be/d8n-eo5fDYU?t=91
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BDqzmG-rH8

Now I did take the effort to read all these articles, because I did not just want to copy and paste without knowing what I copy pasted.
That said, lots of these are from rather big news papers.

I could have linked more but I kinda gotta go to bed now. Whatever opinion you will form after reading these things is your own.
That said, I think it is understandable that people are concerned when the European newspapers are full of articles like these whilst most of our news and politicians tell us the opposite...
So yeah, whilst I agree we should help people truly in need, I also think we should be careful because "no good deed goes unpunished"
I'm done with this thread now, I don't like reading stuff like this.

All of this comes down to rape + attempted rapes + violence
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-claim-womens-rights-groups-politicians.html
http://www.telegraaf.nl/buitenland/24504548/___Vrouwen_in_azc_verkracht___.html
http://www.mx.dk/nyheder/danmark/story/16451053 / http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...woman-allegedly-raped-three-Eritrean-men.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...woman-allegedly-raped-three-Eritrean-men.html
https://www.rt.com/news/270214-bavaria-muslim-school-clothes/
http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachric...ngen-nur-mit-hilfe-der-bundeswehr-schlichten/
http://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de...Fluechtlinge-wuest-beschimpft-id35508097.html
http://www.wa.de/hamm/uentrop-ort37...polizeiliche-ermittlungen-dauern-5339731.html
http://www.rnz.de/politik/suedwest/...oilette-sexuell-missbraucht-_arid,116338.html
http://www.durlacher.de/start/neuig...ation-der-bevoelkerung-durch-die-polizei.html
https://messerattacke.wordpress.com...n-21-jahrige-und-brechen-ihr-gesichtsknochen/
http://www.abendzeitung-muenchen.de...aft.89331248-f395-4d28-9168-b8fb490a9820.html
https://mopo24.de/nachrichten/versuchte-vergewaltigung-meissen-7232
http://www.br.de/nachrichten/niederbayern/inhalt/prozess-vergewaltigung-deggendorf-100.html
http://www.polizei.bayern.de/unterfranken/news/presse/aktuell/index.html/218884
http://www.svz.de/mv-uebersicht/studentin-bedraengt-und-missbraucht-id8937191.html
http://www.pnp.de/region_und_lokal/...-Vergewaltigungen-Taeter-27-festgenommen.html
https://mopo24.de/nachrichten/Dresden-vergewaltigung-neustadt-marrokaner-7592
Click to expand...


The articles of rape are pretty wishy washy, "suspicious", "alleged", the dailymail ones specially, where's the case?, also they refer to islam as a rape culture (alleged by who?, lazy journalism), so it seems like yellow press to me, i don't buy it, or at least with a grain of salt. The rt one neither, no actual case, if anything it's about cultural clashes, which can happen. As for the videos, i took a look at some, i can see some fair points, i've never said this shouldn't be regulated to start with, assholes come in all shapes colors and forms, but i don't get the self righteous stance, it's just a guy who wants better food, if they want it then, whatever, why losing your grip because of that, i don't see the point.
Idk what's going to happen, but it's concerning to see such a mess in that area and i truly pity the immigrants from Syria.
 
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SpecialEdition said:
I would not say that I necessarily feel censored, but I do feel that when being labelled as a racist the conversation has come to a point where it can no longer be productive. These kinds of subjects are already difficult to address even while trying to remain objective but also diplomatic and understanding of all sides of the coin. Unfortunately there are going to be people who read what I say and think I am an asshole and there are going to be other people who agree but may not necessarily want to speak up on their own. This is the kind of subject matter that has to be discussed fairly delicately because it can erode pretty quickly and honestly I am not chasing after such negative labels because I believe they're unfair and unwarranted.

It's an unsafe time for anyone to say anything that might be considered "controversial" because it will always be construed in one particular flavour which is unfavourable. I think that is the reason most people are reluctant to talk about how they feel about this situation - not just on the forum, but on any social media or even day to day conversation.

No one wants to turn people away that may end up dying as a result. No one wants to deny people asylum when they are suffering. No one wants to see a militant power rise and destroy lives and snowball when it gets too much power (except those driving the machine). In the same breath, no one wants to see their own homes, culture and country dismantled because there are people abusing the situation which overshadows those who needed all of our help in the first place. And that is the problem most people are not really focusing on.
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If people want to throw labels around, that's their prerogative. If they think that because they have applied a label, that one's opinion is ipso facto wrong, or to be ignored; or conversely that their view is the only correct one - well, that's another thing, which I think should have gone out with the USSR.

Individual migrants are where compassion comes into play; but in the big picture there has to be concern over societies/countries/states.
Every society has to deal with the consequences of its attitudes/group decisions/etc. Relocating an entire troubled society to a new location is simply transplanting the problem. I doubt that the higher rainfall and lower temperatures will suddenly fix all of the problems of the Middle East. Exporting a Middle Eastern society en masse is simply going to export that society's problems into a new location. I think it is fundamentally necessary that old ways be left behind by each individual migrant - and that this be a requirement for visas.
 
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SpecialEdition said:
I do feel that when being labelled as a racist (...)
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Flavus Aquila said:
If people want to throw labels around, that's their prerogative.
Click to expand...

The only one being close to label any one in this thread a "racist" is me, and I've already tried to explain that that was a misunderstanding: I haven't called anyone a racists, I've only questioned the very definition of being racists AND talked about my feelings upon how a certain opinion might be considered rasism. My intentions have never been to call either SpecialEdition or any one a racist unless that's what they are - and even then I can't see the point of calling someone a racists. It's not like that gives them less credability in the public discussion!

I've looked back at the thread and found that the word "racism" or "racist" is quite frequent, but mostly because someone mentioned that the discussion outside this thread involves those words, or when others continue commenting on those concernes. And, as I've said, me. In my eyes no one has labeled anyone, and so the discussion remains where is was before. And if I'm still have had difficulties explaining myself, I'm sorry.


Now, back on topic!

What I can see there has not been anyone in the opinion that we should let everyone in, and I haven't seen the opinion that no one should be let in. So we're not talking between extremists: we are rather close to eachother, each and everyone of us. Or atleast, if I'm remembering it correctly and by the opinions that has been said.
 
Looking back....what are we going to do with all these immigrants?

1748-georgia.jpg


Yamacraw Indian Tribe
Chauktaw Indians
Cherokee Nation
 
georgia52-sm.gif


Before there were white and black men, there was the red man! What fruits did we bear? How can we make it right, or can we?
 
just me said:
23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
Click to expand...
What does that mean? That the “end times” are near?
Those verses are just as vague as the stuff Nostradamus came up with.

just me said:
georgia52-sm.gif


Before there were white and black men, there was the red man! What fruits did we bear? How can we make it right, or can we?
Click to expand...

just me said:
georgia52-detail.jpg
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I don’t get what you mean with this Native American thing….how does this relate to the thread that is being discussed?
And to make it right what do you propose? Reparations? How about we quit stealing and annexing the last bits of land they have left?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/29/opinion/selling-off-apache-holy-land.html

What about reparations for all the slaves we kidnapped too then? It’s okay for one, but not the other?
Don’t be so vague, what the hell is your point?
 


THE WESTERN NORTH CAROLINA HISTORICAL ASSOCIATION PRESENTS:​
housenomerge.gif





















THE NATIVE-AMERICAN FOOTPRINT ON THE LAND​
THE NATIVE-AMERICAN FOOTPRINT ON THE LANDNative Americans were here at least 3,000 years before the arrival of explorers and settlers from Europe. By the 1600s the hunter/gatherer economy of the Cherokee Indians of the Appalachian region was also developing agricultural methods which would be adopted by the first white settlers of North Carolina. And the Indian network of trade routes often served as the basis of future roads and turnpikes. At the arrival of the first white settlers, Cherokee villages were surrounded by large corn fields which had been cleared using a slash and burn method. Gardens were planted beside rivers and streams. In addition to corn, the Cherokee grew beans, squash, sunflowers, pumpkins and other crops. While the men were the principal hunters, the Cherokee women tended the fields. A CONFLICT OF CULTURESBy the 1750s the Cherokee population stood at approximately 25,000. Twenty years later through open warfare with the relentlessly encroaching white population and by the ravaging effect of diseases carried by explorers and settlers the population had been reduced to less than 9,000.
mapnative.jpg
"Whole Indian Nations have melted away like snowballs in the sun before the white man's advance. They leave scarcely a name of our people except those wrongly recorded by their destroyers…. We had hoped that the white men would not be willing to travel beyond the mountains. Now that hope is gone. They have passed the mountains….” - Dragging Canoe, Cherokee leader, 1775 In the American Revolutionary War, the Cherokee chose to fight on the British side. They believed the English would help them keep their tribal lands. This choice would eventually cost them dearly: for many, the loss of their lives; for all, the loss of their land. “…our settlements will gradually circumscribe and approach the Indians, and they will in time either incorporate with us as citizens of the United States, or remove beyond the Mississippi.”- Thomas Jefferson, 1803 Despite the earnest attempts by many Cherokee to “incorporate” with the white settlers, the final removal, ordered by President Andrew Jackson, took place in 1838. This infamous chapter in American history, in which more than 4,000 died on the journey to the West, became known as the “Trail of Tears.” "We are now about to take our leave and kind farewell to our native land, the country that the Great Spirit gave our Fathers, we are on the eve of leaving that country that gave us birth...it is with sorrow we are forced by the white man to quit the scenes of our childhood... we bid farewell to it and all we hold dear." - Charles Hicks, Tsalagi (Cherokee) Vice Chief, 1838
 
Scrow, I didn't expect you to understand. Food for thought for you. I did expect you to try and hammer it, though.

Let the others see if they understand. People migrated to America. They destroyed it to make something for themselves.

We should learn from history. "A parcel of land for $12"

We buy land and continually repay for it in taxes. When we get old, it is taken away from us: even though we helped our government to survive. All the while, it was taken from the Indians and all I hear about are the slaves. Hide the Indians under the slaves?
Blame the South? Anything else you can come up with? What a difference one rifle made. That would be the Henry Repeating Rifle the South did not have. Blame it on slavery, but collect your taxes the same ways they were collected when the migrants fled and came here. Greed and corruption are the enemies of us all. Our government takes from its people to survive. If I have to take, I will go without. If others do not want me to have, I will make do with what I have and live off the land the way the first Americans did.
 
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