Scottish Independence

[Eventhorizon]

No there will not be a greater sense of unity

The vote was 45% to 55% which shows a deeply divided country

There are also divisions in Northern Ireland as we all know, there is also a divide in England with the northern English increasingly disgrunteld that all the wealth and power is being sucked down into London

There is also a divide in Wales as they watch their properties bought up by English absentee landlords

So there is no unity in the UK just deep divisions that i anticipate will get worse as the economy gets worse and also with the creation of the high speed railway which i think will further benefit London at the expense of other regions of the UK

Our governments prime concern is not unity and neither do i believe will it deliver on its promises to the Scots to give them more devolved powers

The UK governments prime concern is doing what the global investors that it is indebted to want it to do. the global investors want the status quo to remain so the British government is not interested in change.

What they will do is what they always do which is to maintain the status quo whislt trying to conceal that behind a smoke screen of lies and empty promises

On a positive note 45% of Scots have woken upto that, on a negative note 55% of Scots haven't

However perhaps many of those 55% are aware that the government are liars who never deliver on promises but have voted out of fear

I think the YES vote was a vote for change which is born out of hope

The NO vote was a vote for more of the same which is a vote born out of fear

The fear mongering of the UK politicial class has possibly swayed many Scots who in their fear induced tunnel vision have then lost sight of the wider picture

The wider picture is that the figures the government provide for inflation are incorrect as they do not include food and energy and yet anyone on the street can see that food and energy prices are going UP!

Inflation will destroy the savings of the short sightedly cautious middle class who have voted NO

The other thing that will happen is we will now be dragged into more wars including the one being stoked in the middle east. ISIS (controlled by the CIA, Mossad & MI5) will continue to provoke westren countries until they take some sort of military action in the middle east)

ISIS will stage faked beheadings of people from the various countries that the powers that be want to suck into the conflict and it will stage provocative false flag attacks like the one in Australia to try and suck them into the conflict

Ultimately the real target though is Assad and beyond him Iran and Russia

So the NO vote will keep us tied into whatever crazy project NATO want to pursue

It will also drag us into the faillng fiat currencies as the petrodollar collapses and the pound suffers with it

There really are no positives to take from the situation

The FEAR vote has carried the day.....and the older generation who have passed on the age of austerity to the younger generation have helped to not only pass on an unstable world with a damaged environment and a corrupt political class dominated by the central bankers, that harbours high level peodophile rings, but they have also voted to prevent the younger generation from making the changes needed to counter that

We need to keep the SNP in power, wait for the economy to worsen to try and radicalise more of the populace and hold another referendum and next time vote YES

Concerning the EU being our one common enemy that is only partially true. The EU is nothing more than a vehicle of the globalist central bankers. The globalists are already in our country controlling our economy and government. So the EU is not the sole problem...the roots of the problem are in our country and they need to be rooted out

If you focus on the EU then you will fail to see that many of the architects of the EU are living in our country and pulling the economic and political strings

I dont think I saw a single conspiracy theory in there Muir. In fact some fairly clear reasoning. Did I die? Is that it am I dead? This is all an illusion right?

 

[Lark]

Diversity is the spice of life. ^^

Are there any downsides to these smaller states regaining their independence? Is there a chance that something goes wrong in the short-term or long term (this question is more likely answered by "wait and see").

I think there are major downsides, the wealth is not going to redistribute simply because political power has been redistributed, governments, including new regional powers, can manage existing resources differently and provide some stimulous but they can not alchemically conjur wealth where there isnt any and in the face of others actively with holding which I'm certain would be the case, the same regional powers would not simply be managing resources but actively consuming them aswell.

This provides a slight neo-liberal/neo-con fix in so far that if you have layers and layers of well paid politicians they could circulate money in the economy in the way that mass employment once did, certainly more so than a few milionaires could (with the best will in the world, and there's no reason at all to assume the best will in the world, no single individual could circulate money as a government or political class could), whilst not involving the risks of demands for equality that a mass employment scenario would imply.

I think everyone should watch what happens to Scotland now because the political elites in Westminister will visit a great revenge upon the Scottish electorate and Scottish politicians, there's no two ways about it, the english will jump at any chance to do this and they will have mass support because the english opinion is that Scotland and the other regions are dead weight, welfare scroungers and they are quite vindictive about them have the brass to campaign for independence at all.

Scotland might get its independence but it wont be the dream of freedom and having the upper hand the imagined.

 

[Lark]

I dont think I saw a single conspiracy theory in there Muir. In fact some fairly clear reasoning. Did I die? Is that it am I dead? This is all an illusion right?

Surely you jest?

That's the bizarrest mix of extreme left and right theorising I've ever seen, to condemn fiat currencies in the same breath as championing the independence struggles of small countries? What's the alternative to fiat currencies? Gold standards, precisely the thing which, because of its scarcity meaning that the central banks of small countries are unlikely to possess much of it, would make small countries totally dependent upon their bigger neighbours or large trading blocs.

To suggest that the EU is a stooge for globalists (why dont we just say Jews at this stage because its pretty apparent that's where that ideology is going) but its fine because the UK government is only a greater stooge is ridiculous too, the same sort of "cabals out to get us" thinking is fuelling UKIPs popularity, which is poles apart from the SNP. Europe is either pro-globalists, ie central bankers and finance gangsters, or its not, if UKIP et al are anti-EU then I suspect its because the EU does not sit aswell with central bankers and finance gangsters as Muir's conspriacy theorists would have anyone believe.

That's a mess of contradictions, as Muir's conspiracy theorising posts always are, because you always have to trace it all back to a single, homogenous, unified and organised group sitting at the centre of everything and directing it all, no matter what the issue. Its a shame because there's usually some elements of critically appraised foreign policies and geo politics most of the time but it all gets fucked up with the inevitable turn of "its the rothschilds" and fiat currencies.

If you'd look your history at exactly where all this comes from you'd see it dates back to the anti-semitic grudges of not simply central european immigrants but backwoods america, the confederates, the klan ideology (what there is of it) and its northern/union equivalents and a time in recent history when the right wing malaise made serious attempts to go "fishing in left wing pools", ie infiltrating all the vaguely aggrieved protest movements like "anti-globalism" and "occupy wall street", with the mission of finding saps to use as assets Tim McVey style. I dont know the extent that intelligence agencies were involved but going by the history of Counterintelpro or whatever it was called that Abbie Hoffman uncovered they definitely didnt meddle when it came to the extreme right, with whom they had more affinities than differences, messing up the left or simply politically dispossessed among the population.

 

[muir]

I dont think I saw a single conspiracy theory in there Muir. In fact some fairly clear reasoning. Did I die? Is that it am I dead? This is all an illusion right?

Nothin i've been talking about is a 'theory' which is why i'm always able to support what i'm saying with evidence

The 'conspiracy' is the one involving the economic and spiritual control of the people

 

[muir]

Surely you jest?

That's the bizarrest mix of extreme left and right theorising I've ever seen, to condemn fiat currencies in the same breath as championing the independence struggles of small countries? What's the alternative to fiat currencies? Gold standards, precisely the thing which, because of its scarcity meaning that the central banks of small countries are unlikely to possess much of it, would make small countries totally dependent upon their bigger neighbours or large trading blocs.

Scotland had oil

There are plenty of options for currencies

Even within fiat currencies there is a massive difference between a fiat currency supplied by private bankers and one controlled by the government treasury

To suggest that the EU is a stooge for globalists (why dont we just say Jews at this stage because its pretty apparent that's where that ideology is going) but its fine because the UK government is only a greater stooge is ridiculous too, the same sort of "cabals out to get us" thinking is fuelling UKIPs popularity, which is poles apart from the SNP.

The EU is controlled by the globalists

They also want a north american union, an african union and an asian union which they woulod then merge at a future date....its all part of their road map to global control

Europe is either pro-globalists, ie central bankers and finance gangsters, or its not, if UKIP et al are anti-EU then I suspect its because the EU does not sit aswell with central bankers and finance gangsters as Muir's conspriacy theorists would have anyone believe.

UKIP is talking about protecting the small to medium sized enterprises from the big corporations

Europe post 2008 crisis fell under the control of unelected 'technocrats' (ie bankers) controlled by goldman sachs.

That's a mess of contradictions, as Muir's conspiracy theorising posts always are, because you always have to trace it all back to a single, homogenous, unified and organised group sitting at the centre of everything and directing it all, no matter what the issue. Its a shame because there's usually some elements of critically appraised foreign policies and geo politics most of the time but it all gets fucked up with the inevitable turn of "its the rothschilds" and fiat currencies.

No not really its all pretty simple.....the bankers want to centralise their power and EU is a centralisation of power

If you'd look your history at exactly where all this comes from you'd see it dates back to the anti-semitic grudges of not simply central european immigrants but backwoods america, the confederates, the klan ideology (what there is of it) and its northern/union equivalents and a time in recent history when the right wing malaise made serious attempts to go "fishing in left wing pools", ie infiltrating all the vaguely aggrieved protest movements like "anti-globalism" and "occupy wall street", with the mission of finding saps to use as assets Tim McVey style. I dont know the extent that intelligence agencies were involved but going by the history of Counterintelpro or whatever it was called that Abbie Hoffman uncovered they definitely didnt meddle when it came to the extreme right, with whom they had more affinities than differences, messing up the left or simply politically dispossessed among the population.

No it comes from knowledge about who is doing what and why

For example the machinations of globalist George Soros with his 'colour' revolutions

It is your ideas that are muddled...for example you fail to realise how the bankers use both the extreme right and left to play both ends against the middle

The Klan was born out of freemasonry....the same freemasonry that is involved in jewish marxism

The aim? Keep the people divided and ruled

Which as you have accurately stated they have managed to do with the scottish referendum because now they have made the english people angry as well as the scots

 

[muir]

The next thing will be false flag 'terrorist' attacks in the Uk to bring the UK into the growing middle east crisis

 

[Kgal]

Awww....

 

[muir]

Awww....

Back to the drawing board!

We will need to wait for another generation before trying again...but i'm confident the politicial and economic climate will be more amenable then

 

[Kgal]

Back to the drawing board!

We will need to wait for another generation before trying again...but i'm confident the politicial and economic climate will be more amenable then

Yes. Back to the drawing board! This is but a precursor of things to come...and I don't think we'll need to wait even a generation.

 

[muir]

Yes. Back to the drawing board! This is but a precursor of things to come...and I don't think we'll need to wait even a generation.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...out-referendum-says-alex-salmond-9747555.html

Scotland could still declare independence – even without referendum, says Alex Salmond

Demographics would see support for independence rising in the coming years, says outgoing First Minister
Ian Johnston
Monday 22 September 2014

Alex Salmond has claimed that Scotland could declare itself independent without a referendum in the future.

The Scottish First Minister, who has said he is standing down after voters failed to back independence last week, said a referendum was the “best route” to statehood, but added that there were others.
He said if the Scottish Parliament was given more powers until “you have a situation where you’re independent in all but name … “then presumably, you declare yourself to be independent”.

“Many countries have proceeded through that route,” he said in an interview with Sky News’ Murnaghan programme.
Mr Salmond has previously said that he would accept the referendum result and that it was a “once in a generation” event. However, he said on Sunday that “there are always things can change circumstances”, saying if the UK voted to leave the European Union then Scotland or if the main UK parties failed to honour a pledge to devolve more power to Edinburgh then having another vote would be justified.
Mr Salmond also said that demographics would see support for independence rising in the coming years.
“I mean when you have a situation where the majority of a country up to the age of 55 is already voting for independence then I think the writing’s on the wall for Westminster,” he said.
“I think the destination is pretty certain, we are only now debating the timescale and the method.
In pictures: Alex Salmond's campaign for Scottish independence

“I think Scots of my generation and above should really be looking at themselves in the mirror and wonder if we by majority, as a result of our decision, have actually impeded progress for the next generation which is something no generation should do.”
Johann Lamont, the Scottish Labour leader, told The Daily Telegraph that Mr Salmond should not try to “overthrow the will of the Scottish people in some sort of coup”.
“Having decisively lost a democratic referendum on independence, Alex Salmond is now suggesting the nationalists can ignore the sovereign will of the Scottish people,” she said.
“His words are fundamentally undemocratic and an insult to the people of Scotland. Salmond may regret the result but this reaction is dangerous and wrong.”

The Scottish First Minister, who has said he is standing down after voters failed to back independence last week, said a referendum was the “best route” to statehood, but added that there were others.
He said if the Scottish Parliament was given more powers until “you have a situation where you’re independent in all but name … “then presumably, you declare yourself to be independent”.
“Many countries have proceeded through that route,” he said in an interview with Sky News’ Murnaghan programme.
Mr Salmond has previously said that he would accept the referendum result and that it was a “once in a generation” event.

However, he said on Sunday that “there are always things can change circumstances”, saying if the UK voted to leave the European Union then Scotland or if the main UK parties failed to honour a pledge to devolve more power to Edinburgh then having another vote would be justified.Mr Salmond also said that demographics would see support for independence rising in the coming years.
“I mean when you have a situation where the majority of a country up to the age of 55 is already voting for independence then I think the writing’s on the wall for Westminster,” he said.
“I think the destination is pretty certain, we are only now debating the timescale and the method.


“I think Scots of my generation and above should really be looking at themselves in the mirror and wonder if we by majority, as a result of our decision, have actually impeded progress for the next generation which is something no generation should do.”
Johann Lamont, the Scottish Labour leader, told The Daily Telegraph that Mr Salmond should not try to “overthrow the will of the Scottish people in some sort of coup”.
“Having decisively lost a democratic referendum on independence, Alex Salmond is now suggesting the nationalists can ignore the sovereign will of the Scottish people,” she said.
“His words are fundamentally undemocratic and an insult to the people of Scotland. Salmond may regret the result but this reaction is dangerous and wrong.”
Adam Tomkins, professor of public law at the University of Glasgow, said a unilateral declaration of independence would be illegal and “bonkers”

 

[muir]

http://rt.com/uk/189476-scots-tricked-vote-salmond/

[h=1]Scots were tricked into voting ‘No’ – Salmond[/h] Published time: September 21, 2014 18:30 Get short URL

London politicians gulled Scottish voters out of independence by making a false “vow” to grant Glasgow extra powers, First Minister Alex Salmond has said. He also raised the prospect of another referendum, saying the break-up is inevitable.
Alex Salmond, leader of the 'Yes' campaign and the outgoing head of the Scottish National Party (SNP), told the BBC's Sunday Politics program that the UK government won last Thursday's referendum vote by 55-45 percent by deceiving the people ahead the referendum and promising to rapidly expand Scottish autonomy.

"I think the vow was something cooked up in desperation for the last few days of the campaign and I think everyone in Scotland now realizes that," said Salmond.

"It is the people who were persuaded to vote no, who were misled, who were gulled, who were tricked effectively," he added. "They are the ones who are really angry."

Just over a week before the historic referendum, Britain’s major political parties promised Scots more autonomy over tax and welfare spending if they chose to stay in the UK.

Following the referendum results and Scotland’s decision to stay in the union, British Prime Minister David Cameron said that constitutional reforms, including in Scotland, would not be delivered until after the general election, and the changes would be linked with those in Britain.

Pro-union protestors chant and wave Union Flags during a demonstration at George Square in Glasgow, Scotland September 19, 2014. (Reuters/Cathal McNaughton)

Salmond said he was “surprised by the speed” in which the UK authorities started breaking their vow, adding that they are “totally shameless in these matters.”

"Within 24 hours they started to tear up the commitments," he said.

On Sunday, Downing Street dismissed Salmond’s claims that Britain's three major political parities are continuing to disagree over handling the process of devolution.

The spokesman for David Cameron said the government is still committed to move forward with the new powers over tax, spending, and welfare, stating the issues are to be agreed on by November and the legislation is to be drafted by January.

Salmond raised the prospect of a future referendum, which could be justified if the UK parties fail to honor their pledge. He said that in his “personal view,” a referendum could only be staged around once in every 20 years. However, “there are always things can change circumstances.”

In another interview with Sky News’ Murnaghan program on Sunday, Salmond elaborated on the issue, saying the break-up of the UK is inevitable and is only a matter of time.

Reuters/Cathal McNaughton

“I mean when you have a situation where the majority of a country up to the age of 55 is already voting for independence then I think the writing’s on the wall for Westminster. I think the destination is pretty certain, we are only now debating the timescale and the method,” he said.

“I think Scots of my generation and above should really be looking at themselves in the mirror and wonder if we by majority, as a result of our decision, have actually impeded progress for the next generation which is something no generation should do.”

He argued that there might be other ways to break ties with the UK, including Scotland's parliament gaining more leverage and then declaring independence. However, he stressed that a referendum still remains “the best route.”

Salmond, who announced his resignation on Friday, told BBC that he will still “be part of the political process,” but he wants to give a chance to others after serving as leader of the SNP for two ten-year stretches.

 

[muir]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...campaign-on-twitter-and-facebook-9746674.html

A campaign identifying itself as the ‘45 percent’ has emerged in the wake of the Scottish referendum and has become a rallying cry for those determined to keep the dream of Scottish independence alive.

In the final referendum 44.7 per cent of the electorate answered Yes to the referendum question: ‘Should Scotland be an independent country?’ while the No vote won 55.3 per cent of the vote.
Despite both sides of the debate calling for the healing of divisions and the creation of a united Scotland following the referendum, the ‘we are the 45%’ campaign wants to capitalise on the social media success and grassroots support that characterised the yes campaign.
With nearly 151,000 likes on the 45%'s several Facebook pages, and #the45 and #wearethe45 trending on twitter, the movement is drawing on the success of Yes activists who spread their message using social media platforms.
The blue Yes twibbon which became ubiquitous on Twitter and Facebook profile pictures in recent weeks has been replaced by a similarly designed 45 sticker.

Like the diverse Yes campaign ‘we are the 45’ has already created a home for a range of differing opinions.“The British establishment would love nothing more than for the 45 percent to disappear. By maintaining the success of alternative media this will not happen,” one community page tells its followers.
Glaswegian actor Douglas Hensall, famous for his role as Professor Nick Cutter in the ITV series Primeval, has come out in support of the campaign. He has expressed some reservations about its name though, saying the movement might be confused with a previous and ultimately unsuccessful Jacobite revolution against the British rule in Scotland in 1745.


However some of the 45ers have given further voice to allegations of fraud in Thursday’s poll with others calling for a recount.
Some supporters have drawn criticism, at times from within their own forums, for anti-English sentiment. A member of one Facebook group wrote: “How about every No voter adopts the nationality of northern English because they certainly aren’t Scottish”.
Comparisons have already been drawn between the group and the cybernats who rounded on the opponents of Scottish Independence online during the recent referendum campaign.


Those opposed to independence and perhaps some jaded by the long referendum campaign have asked the 45 percent campaigners to stop their drive. Conservative MSP Murdo Fraser tweeted that the movement was "all a bit sad" and told the activists that: "The people of Scotland have spoken."
The pro-independence coalition was quick to call on its supporters not to enter Glasgow’s George Square during violence on Friday, which led to the arrests of six pro-unionists, and has strayed beyond the confines of its online world in other ways.
However it appears to have a had a large presence in a demonstration in Dundee yesterday, which saw over 100 independence supporters march through the city and is preparing a number of flags, badges and other merchandise to spread its message.

 

[muir]

VOTER FRAUD!!!

We need a recount! Why did 'yes' district clackmannashire turn out no? Why was turn out so low in Glasgow? Why were there no exit polls? Why was the result so different from the polls done before the vote? etc

http://truthstreammedia.com/evidence-the-scottish-independence-vote-was-rigged-balderdash/

<font size="6"><font size="3">[video=youtube;3oRg-VKuE68]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oRg-VKuE68[/video]

 

[muir]

The YES voters are forming into a coaliton called the 'we are the 45%' movement which is aiming to ensure that the devolved powers that were promised as a last minute deal by the westminster powers that be will be delivered to scotland which will then pave the way to full independance

Also large petitions have been formed on change.org and 38degrees with tens of thousands of signatories demanding a recount of the ballot papers after evidence is emerging of voting fraud!

This is not over by a long shot!

 

[Lark]

Breaking news has it that Salmond has stepped down to make way Muir as grand high emperor of the highlanders.

 

[muir]

Breaking news has it that Salmond has stepped down to make way Muir as grand high emperor of the highlanders.

The highlanders don't need me to rally them they are rising already in their droves!

Scotland is politically buzzing at the moment!

 

[Artisan]

I keep being amazed how people in NATO countries actually believe in democracy...
As for presidents and PM's hell guys, those people who you can choose from are all bought and paid for. they just let you choose which crony's face you like best. ;P

 

[muir]

In solidarity to the catalans i wish you the best of luck with your referendum. Your poll results of over 60% in favour of independance will make it much harder to rig your referendum...so go for it!

We Scots will be joining you soon enough!

http://rt.com/news/189792-catalonia-support-independence-poll/

Almost 60 percent of Catalans support independence from Spain according to the latest poll, which also revealed that Catalans have no fear about their future as a sovereign European state.
The results of the new survey by the Omnibus Opinion Studies Centre have shown that out of 1,600 samples taken from the Catalan population, 87.6 percent would accept the outcome of the November 9 referendum, while 9.1 percent would not.

In addition, 58.8 percent of Catalans strongly agree or somewhat agree that Catalonia should have its own state, while 31.9 percent answered that they are fairly opposed or totally opposed to living in an independent country.

Independentist Catalans react as they wait for the Parliament to pass the regional law to vote on November 9, as they gather outside the Parliament of Catalonia in Barcelona (AFP Photo / Josep Lago)

The opinion poll released Monday comes after the Catalan parliament voted on Friday in favor of the new law, with 106 MPs supporting it and 28 voting against. The MPs hope it will bring Catalan President Artur Mas a step closer to the planned independence referendum on November 9.
READ MORE: Catalonians stage their biggest independence rally

The Spanish government called the Catalan vote illegal and said it will be taking the matter up at the Constitutional Court. The court has the power to suspend the vote after it hears the case on Tuesday.

With its own language and culture, Catalonia has sought a referendum on independence similar to the one held in Scotland on Thursday. The autonomous region has a population of 7.5 million and accounts for almost one-quarter of Spain’s GDP.

 

[muir]

I keep being amazed how people in NATO countries actually believe in democracy...
As for presidents and PM's hell guys, those people who you can choose from are all bought and paid for. they just let you choose which crony's face you like best. ;P

Absolutely

NATO is just the military wing of the New World Order and politics is nothing but theatre to distract the public from what the big money interests are doing behind the scenes....politics is like a soap opera

 

[Artisan]

yeah, muir... truth be told I don't see how the Catalans would get away with independence either.

I'm really tired of seeing the news broadcasting BS though...