Should you spank kids?

It's not necessarily my opinion, I'm just trying to find where the logical argument is.

People seem to be making this arbitrary distinction between extreme violence and 'modest violence'.

'Spanking' - we call it 'smacking' here - is the infliction of pain in order to discipline by Pavlovian means.

It doesn't matter if the pain is very light, it's still being used as negative reinforcement. It is something they do not like; it is real pain, otherwise it would not be effective.
Hmm, that makes more sense when you put it that way.

I agree with positive reinforcement being the best way. I've had pops that didn't hurt anything at all except my pride.

But I think this is more of the same thing you and I were discussing last night. In southern US culture, most people do spank their kids. It is deemed irresponsible not to. Maybe that is why I feel the way I do, but nevertheless, I'd never take it lightly.
 
@April I think you're right in that this cuts through cultural ground in a rather serious way.

I think it depends upon the kind of morality you want to promote in your children, actually.

It's like the difference between shame (other people disapprove of me) and guilt (I disapprove of myself), and the role that negative reinforcement plays in this.

For instance, I'm always creeped out by the people who say, 'don't do that, you'll get punished'. I'll give you an example:

Do you want to rob this shop?

1) No, I'll go to prison.
2) No, it's wrong.

Do you want to rob this shop? You won't get caught.

1) OK then, why not.
2) No, it's wrong.

This is a hugely more complex issue than has been discussed so far, I think. The social psychological work done after WWII which tried to explain the Holocaust (e.g. Theodore Adorno is the big one) seemed to bear this out - Adorno himself concluded that the fascist and antisemitic tendencies of the Nazis was ultimately caused by disciplinarian parenting styles.

It's the difference between:

Child makes a mistake, because it's a child:

1) Smack. Just because. I'm in charge and you're wrong.
2) Explain why the child was wrong in a way that he understands. Get him to make amends, &c.

One is about internalising authority, the other is about internalising morality.

Now you may have noticed that smacking can be used as part of the second strategy, so you're right, there is no, singular 'spank'. What it means - as someone pointed out - and what it achieves can be hugely different depending on the context.
 
I didn't mean to make you angry. I never said that it is okay because it is legal.

I only meant that it is legal with conditions. I'm actually, truly sorry @Lady Jolanda if my opinion offends you. I don't want to be labeled as someone who is abusive to their children. I am thankful to my father for his disciplinarian ways, except for his words, because I see the difference in me and other children who never got spankings. Maybe more factors are at play here.

Again, I hate that you're upset.
 
@April I think you're right in that this cuts through cultural ground in a rather serious way.

I think it depends upon the kind of morality you want to promote in your children, actually.

It's like the difference between shame (other people disapprove of me) and guilt (I disapprove of myself), and the role that negative reinforcement plays in this.

For instance, I'm always creeped out by the people who say, 'don't do that, you'll get punished'. I'll give you an example:

Do you want to rob this shop?

1) No, I'll go to prison.
2) No, it's wrong.

Do you want to rob this shop? You won't get caught.

1) OK then, why not.
2) No, it's wrong.

This is a hugely more complex issue than has been discussed so far, I think. The social psychological work done after WWII which tried to explain the Holocaust (e.g. Theodore Adorno is the big one) seemed to bear this out - Adorno himself concluded that the fascist and antisemitic tendencies of the Nazis was ultimately caused by disciplinarian parenting styles.

It's the difference between:

Child makes a mistake, because it's a child:

1) Smack. Just because. I'm in charge and you're wrong.
2) Explain why the child was wrong in a way that he understands. Get him to make amends, &c.

One is about internalising authority, the other is about internalising morality.

Now you may have noticed that smacking can be used as part of the second strategy, so you're right, there is no, singular 'spank'. What it means - as someone pointed out - and what it achieves can be hugely different depending on the context.
That is something I always do with my children. Mistakes are mistakes and they are opportunities to educate, correct, and instill valuable lessons. I always make sure they know why what they did is wrong. I give them a chance to discuss it with me, and I make them repeat back to me what they have learned so that I can be sure they understand what I am saying. I do teach them empathy and morals.
 
I know April. I'm sorry too. I noticed I was getting irrationally angry, that's why I left to cool off. Opinions generally don't offend me, and you are of course free to have yours, this is just a very personal matter to me because of my own childhood. Are you okay? :)
 
I know April. I'm sorry too. I noticed I was getting irrationally angry, that's why I left to cool off. Opinions generally don't offend me, and you are of course free to have yours, this is just a very personal matter to me because of my own childhood. Are you okay? :)
I actually got quite upset that I upset you, but now I feel better since you said this. I just realized that you represent a whole lot of people, and to them I must be a monster. I don't want to be seen as a monster. :/ That part still had me quite upset, to the point I am reconsidering my feelings about spanking, being even more cautious about it.
 
I think the emoji group on the left are actually planning a supremacist rally... Not a very diverse bunch those guys.

You see the huddle is more 'conspiratorial' rather than loving.

They're talking, planning, exchanging hate.

Very disappointed in you @JennyDaniella.

Mods pls ban.

Hahahahaha! :tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy:
 
I'm not seeing an argument here.

Is it acceptable to strike a dog for discipline? A puppy? I'm just wondering why human children seem to be alone in this special category of 'okay to strike'.

Do not compare dogs and anything we do with dogs to what we do with our kids. Also, sometimes dogs during training can use a swift rolled-newspaper to the a$$.
 
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