[PAX] The INFJ Doorslam

[Wyst]

Hard, but not impossible.

Would you say it's rare? Not just any INFJ can do it.

 

[Wyst]

Well I mean, I've never personally experienced one- I shut the door on the INFJ I know, not the other way around.

Wait no- I've actually done that twice now.

I've shut the door on two INFJs.

slant... how can you slam the door on INFJs? That's like taking a baseball bat to a unicorn's legs.

 

[Crow]

I do not doorslam any more.
I close it relatively quietly and forget about it.
I understand that not all relationships are going to bear fruit.
That some serve no purpose at all.
I do not need to interact with everything I see.
My default is to do exactly that,
but even naivety dies at some point.

Having closed a door: it remains a door.
I never truly nail it shut.

 

[Wyst]

I understand that not all relationships are going to bear fruit.

Crow - would you say that this is different from not wanting to go through the possible hard work of working through something?

Sometimes I've walked away from the table, not because I've been wronged or I'm afraid, but because I think, "So-and-so won't understand me no matter how I try to explain it, so why even try. It will be pointless and only end up in more misunderstanding".

I believe this also is a doorslam.

 

[AUM]

I think there's a difference between a door slam and a titanium bolted door slam.

A regular door slam is subject to be re-opened again with the passage of time and forgiveness of the individual who hurt you. I've learned that we should all give people a second chance because we all deserve to prove ourselves that we have matured and we are able to handle a serious relationship.

An iron bolted door slam on the other hand is when you shut that door for good and it will never be re-opened again, no matter what happens and this will only happen in two conditions:

1.) The person is dead
2.) He/she has screwed up their second chance.

Oh, and I've only done the former and temporarily door slam, but I don't hold them grudges and things have proven themselves to get better. I've never done the latter, it will take a lot for me to shut that door for good.

 

[Crow]

None of us may understand what anybody else's definition of "doorslam" is.
Maybe it is a valid concept, and not necessarily a bad thing to do.

The idea of a door, is to give the option of passage through it.
Boarding up a door makes it no longer a door.

Door-slam.
Crash! Bang! See how angry you have made me!
Doing.
Stomps away...

Door-close.
I have other things I must attend to...
Be back later.
Not-doing.

 

[slant]

slant... how can you slam the door on INFJs? That's like taking a baseball bat to a unicorn's legs.

The first time was because she was too emotional and I suspected she was bi-polar, she wouldn't seek treatement so I stopped talking to her.

The second time was because he wanted me to share feelings that I didn't feel like expressing/ lacked and it just became a pressure. Also, the second INFJ wanted to make future plans with me that kind of interfered with my way to think in the present moment. Like, I was thinking about instead of what I needed to do on what 'we' would need to do as an 'us' and so it just became a huge pressure. So I stopped talking to him.

 

[Crow]

That muffin looks like poison to me.
But then again: I am gluten-intolerant.

 

[Wyst]

I think there's a difference between a door slam and a titanium bolted door slam.

A regular door slam is subject to be re-opened again with the passage of time and forgiveness of the individual who hurt you. I've learned that we should all give people a second chance because we all deserve to prove ourselves that we have matured and we are able to handle a serious relationship.

An iron bolted door slam on the other hand is when you shut that door for good and it will never be re-opened again, no matter what happens and this will only happen in two conditions:

1.) The person is dead
2.) He/she has screwed up their second chance.

Oh, and I've only done the former and temporarily door slam, but I don't hold them grudges and things have proven themselves to get better. I've never done the latter, it will take a lot for me to shut that door for good.

I totally agree with you, Last Dawn. The doorslam should never be permanently bolted. A doorslam 'should' always be subject for re-opening. But there's a few things to take into account.

Afrelen was talking about this earlier in the thread. That re-opening the door is hard but not impossible. However if the below is operating...

That 'when' is contingent upon the INFJ conquering their pride. A lot of which can be wrapped up in a 'victim mentality'. Pretty hard to dig yourself out of, IMO.

... then an undeveloped INFJ has a lot working against them. It'd be nice if everyone could see it your way. Unfortunately, there are too many situations that don't fit into the two situations of death and burning their second chance.

Once the 3rd, 4th,... 10th chance has been burnt and that relationship has ended, it may have become habit for the person to make a snap decision the first time something even smells like a familiar wound about to happen.

At the core, I think it's self-protection being executed. The problem with INFJs and self-protection is that many of us are hyper-sensitive.

 

[enfp can be shy]

when i talk to ppl i talk to all ppl


when i dont wanna talk, i completely disappear and talk 2 no one



this modern concept of:
set A - ppl to talk to
set B - ppl not to talk to

is beyond my evolutionary stage.

 

[AUM]

... then an undeveloped INFJ has a lot working against them. It'd be nice if everyone could see it your way. Unfortunately, there are too many situations that don't fit into the two situations of death and burning their second chance.

Once the 3rd, 4th,... 10th chance has been burnt and that relationship has ended, it may have become habit for the person to make a snap decision the first time something even smells like a familiar wound about to happen.

At the core, I think it's self-protection being executed. The problem with INFJs and self-protection is that many of us are hyper-sensitive.

I have a lot of blame in my thinking, so don't feel bad about not "seeing things my way". I never let out my true feelings with anyone because of getting hurt. So it's easy for me to forgive people because I haven't never gotten to the point of becoming emotionally attached to someone so them doing something hurtful to me doesn't leave me as hurt as other INFJ's that do it. There's only one person that knows the real me and as of yet she hasn't let me down. Other than that, closing and opening the door to anyone is not much of a problem to me.

So, I guess I'm different than you in this aspect. I don't know what it is like to have been hurt and I don't want to either.

 

[Faye]

My ex (who I was with for like 10 days) managed to do 5 out of your 6 criteria wyst.

I don't like cutting people off without confronting them fully, but I've done it several times. I have also realized that I've only done it to women. Is that a coincidence do you think?

 

[Wyst]

Good points, Crow.
My stance is that a doorslam is when you walk away from the table and are through negociating. Be it violent or not. At the beginning of my post I said:

An INFJ doorslam doesn't mean an INFJ is now rude to the offending party. In fact, the INFJ is usually very polite to the offending party. Succint, civil, and sometimes terse. But the INFJ won't go out of their way to approach or engage the offending party like (if) they used to. Unless the offending party approaches them in conversation, it's almost like they don't exist to the INFJ anymore.

Door-slam.
Crash! Bang! See how angry you have made me!
Doing.
Stomps away...

Obviously, this is an anger-filled doorslam.

Door-close.
I have other things I must attend to...
Be back later.
Not-doing.

This one is obviously not an anger-filled doorslam. Read between the lines and it says, "I grow tired of this and am no longer willing to invest the energy in this discussion. I'm done."... maybe even with a nod of your head or a tip of the hat.

I would wager that 4/5 INFJs, when they doorslam someone, will do it quietly (sans drama and displays of anger).

The point is it's dismissive. Dismissive is dismissive whether it's done in grandiose displays or in quiet, civil retreats, for long or short periods of time.

Try not to get caught on the 'slam' part of the word because that's not what the focus of the act is meant to be when executed.

 

[Orion]

The biggest door slam I experience recently was with an ENFJ friend of mine. It happened during training. We have been friends for two years now and we met through a club we went to. We instantly hit it off, having the exact same thoughts and ideals. He is a lot older then me, married with 2 kids.

I'd been training a lot more then him in self protection because, I guess, I'm young and that's a big part of my life. He came in for a class and we were partnered up together. Now, I HATE competitive attitudes, I can smell it from a mile off and I thought he was the one person who would never sink to that level. We were training together and it's clear that I surpass him in knowledge, strength and fitness. When we grapple it's fairly easy for me to hold him off etc.

Well I could just taste the tension and I hated it.

When walking home we had a semi-discussion/semi-argument where we were talking about controversial aspects of self protection and self protection for women and such. He was over analysing and picking holes in things and he seemed extremely immature and childish. This man I respected most for his knowledge, level headedness and his amazing Fe- was being very immature. It wasn't explosive or anything but I went to uni and never saw him until I came back for Christmas when I was walking into town.

If I wanted to, I could go round his house any time and resume talk with him in general but I don't know if I'll have time until I have to go back to uni.

So it was a minor door slam, I think, but I did feel quite betrayed by his behaviour.

 

[Wyst]

So, I guess I'm different than you in this aspect. I don't know what it is like to have been hurt and I don't want to either.

It's not fun

 

[Crow]

The point is it's dismissive.

Hey! You got a problem with dismissive???
Slams door.
Storms out of room.

I think dismissive is useful, valid and an important tool in the box of tricks.
I consider being dismissive to be several orders of magnitude better than punching someone's lights out, which - to my embarrassment - was often how I would express myself in the past.

Dismissive is a tactical retreat.
It saves losers from the humiliation of losing.
It saves winners from the consequenses of winning.

It oozes peace

 

[Trifoilum]

first of all; why the tags containing puppy slaughter and Avril Lavigne? xD;

That 'when' is contingent upon the INFJ conquering their pride. A lot of which can be wrapped up in a 'victim mentality'. Pretty hard to dig yourself out of, IMO.

... then an undeveloped INFJ has a lot working against them. It'd be nice if everyone could see it your way. Unfortunately, there are too many situations that don't fit into the two situations of death and burning their second chance.

Once the 3rd, 4th,... 10th chance has been burnt and that relationship has ended, it may have become habit for the person to make a snap decision the first time something even smells like a familiar wound about to happen.

At the core, I think it's self-protection being executed. The problem with INFJs and self-protection is that many of us are hyper-sensitive.

Agreed. It's mostly self-defense, and pride itself do connects with a doorslam, especially when one's being the hurt one...but the difference about doorslams and victim mentality is that when doorslamming, you don't keep whining, feel hurt, and/or betrayed and keeps....distancing yourself as if you're running away. You simply stop interacting with them. It's like turning my back (and probably walking away) from a soon-to-happen car crash, if I can't prevent that or the car's running towards me.

A simpler word for me would be, "screw you/it."

The part about politeness are correct for me; I use it all the time to people I doorslammed, the worse the condition, the more Japanese-style (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keigo) I become.

As for my own personal experience, for real, defensive, MAJOR one, I did it to my mother. Simply put, without any disrespect to the fact that she's the one who gave birth and grew me up, she's an influence I don't want to feel.

But OTOH I found out I am a rather cruel person because I sometimes doorslammed (temporary, tho, but more proof prolongs / strengthens the lock) people I don't even know much. Granted, it's not because they hurted me nor do I feel any contempt against them... It's just, dude / missus, don't come into my life.

Quickest examples; Just a few minutes ago I saw my old crush's (not even that close, only the watching-from-far kind of highschool crush) Facebook status and the replies (news feed.) There...oh God. Full of blatant machismo, obscenity, hypocrisy, name-calling...boasting.... I closed my tab, cursed myself for ever developing any interest, and went, "well, enjoy your happy life."
Then I searched this forum for topics about doorslams. *still a little bit WTFed over, sorry.*

Also, This is a part seen during my shadow mode but I noticed I can do 'mini doorslams'; A doorslam in every sense of the INFJ-connected meaning, but only on a certain issues. I still cared for them, I still interact with them, but once that issue's brought up...I clammed like a person who's doorslamming. Am I being too overtly defensive or something else?

 

[Wyst]

Hahaha

I think dismissive is useful, valid and an important tool in the box of tricks.
I consider being dismissive to be several orders of magnitude better than punching someone's lights out, which - to my embarrassment - was often how I would express myself in the past.

Useful.. tool... tricks? That sounds manipulative to me.
... I agree with you that being dismissive is much better than blackening someone's eye. Perhaps you're still not grasping what I mean by a doorslam.

Dismissive is a tactical retreat.
It saves losers from the humiliation of losing.
It saves winners from the consequenses of winning.

It oozes peace

Being dismissive and doorslamming people when debating or trying to convince someone of something is completey missing the boat...

I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about.

When I was in my early 20's I studied in Fukuoka Japan for two semesters. It was the best year of my life. I was experiencing new things every day, I was learning the language that I loved, I was soaking up the culture, I finally got my first girlfriend while I was there, but more importantly, I found real friends for the first time in my life.

Being homeschooled and studied at home with my two sisters until I was 18, having friends that I went to school with every day, taking the same classes, (and skipping classes with) was a big deal for me.

But it only lasted 8 months. The exchange program ended and I had to come back home. It was VERY VERY difficult on me. I had lost so much in just a plane ride back to Texas. I was angry, bitter, longing to back in time, and very unhappy about being home.

My mom and I were on a trip to Colorado to see one of my friends get married - which was another reason I was touchy. He was two years younger than me and getting married - sure, I was happy for him but this just seemed to increase my emotional distress.

Well mom wanted to talk about feelings. What was I thinking about? What are you plans now that you're back? Isn't it amazing that Chris is getting married? You seem down, what's wrong?

I saw the US as the epitome of my unhappiness. I associated my current misery with being home. Anyone that reminded me of my time in Japan or asked me if I was glad to be back incurred my disfavor upon them.

So she tried changing topics. She ended up trying to talk about politics with me. HUGE mistake. I effin' HATE talking about politics. I couldn't believe she wanted to bring up something she knew I didn't like talking about when I was obviously upset. Then she wanted to talk about some of the finer points in theology. Again, I don't do controversial, I couldn't understand why she kept trying to keep me in this feeling of distress and discomfort.

So I emotionally and verbally compeltely shut down. We call it 'clamming up' in our family.

What's wrong?
Nothing.
Are you sure?
Yep.
What do you want to eat for dinner.
Anything's ok.
What about some chicken soup.
Ok.

It's not that my mom and I didn't see eye to eye that I chose to walk mini-doorslam her. I needed space. She didn't/couldn't/wouldn't realize that, so I responded accordingly.

INFJs don't doorslam to cover asses. They doorslam/mini-slam/temp-slam, pick whatever degree you want, because they don't want to or just can't continue on. Doing so would create extreme discomfort on their part, for possible no gain at all, and perhaps more loss.

 

[Wyst]

first of all; why the tags containing puppy slaughter and Avril Lavigne? xD;

Agreed. It's mostly self-defense, and pride itself do connects with a doorslam, especially when one's being the hurt one...but the difference about doorslams and victim mentality is that when doorslamming, you don't keep whining, feel hurt, and/or betrayed and keeps....distancing yourself as if you're running away. You simply stop interacting with them. It's like turning my back (and probably walking away) from a soon-to-happen car crash, if I can't prevent that or the car's running towards me.

A simpler word for me would be, "screw you/it."

The part about politeness are correct for me; I use it all the time to people I doorslammed, the worse the condition, the more Japanese-style (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keigo) I become.

As for my own personal experience, for real, defensive, MAJOR one, I did it to my mother. Simply put, without any disrespect to the fact that she's the one who gave birth and grew me up, she's an influence I don't want to feel.

But OTOH I found out I am a rather cruel person because I sometimes doorslammed (temporary, tho, but more proof prolongs / strengthens the lock) people I don't even know much. Granted, it's not because they hurted me nor do I feel any contempt against them... It's just, dude / missus, don't come into my life.

Quickest examples; Just a few minutes ago I saw my old crush's (not even that close, only the watching-from-far kind of highschool crush) Facebook status and the replies (news feed.) There...oh God. Full of blatant machismo, obscenity, hypocrisy, name-calling...boasting.... I closed my tab, cursed myself for ever developing any interest, and went, "well, enjoy your happy life."
Then I searched this forum for topics about doorslams. *still a little bit WTFed over, sorry.*

Also, This is a part seen during my shadow mode but I noticed I can do 'mini doorslams'; A doorslam in every sense of the INFJ-connected meaning, but only on a certain issues. I still cared for them, I still interact with them, but once that issue's brought up...I clammed like a person who's doorslamming. Am I being too overtly defensive or something else?

Lol - I didn't put the Avril tag in there. I put in the puppy slaughter and the others though. Some mod must have noticed and decided to add their personal touch.

Keigo is a perfect example of doorslamming someone. The relationship for appearances sake exists, but to the person now using keigo... nope, "You're a stranger to me. Don't act like you're familiar with me anymore" is that it communicates. Perfect example.

I've done the mini-doorslams too. Still do. I can't say how it is you're reacting in those situations. Usually, I find self-centeredness and pride to be at the core of my mini-doorslammings.

 

[Trifoilum]

INFJs don't doorslam to cover asses. They doorslam/mini-slam/temp-slam, pick whatever degree you want, because they don't want to or just can't continue on. Doing so would create extreme discomfort on their part, for possible no gain at all, and perhaps more loss.

Thanks for explaining it more clearly and I can't response much but terrible experience you got there

I don't think dismissal is the same as tactical retreat; instead it's an offensive tactics, used to push aside / dispel / nullify other's "attacks"; think of it as a counterattack.

Lol - I didn't put the Avril tag in there. I put in the puppy slaughter and the others though. Some mod must have noticed and decided to add their personal touch.

Keigo is a perfect example of doorslamming someone. The relationship for appearances sake exists, but to the person now using keigo... nope, "You're a stranger to me. Don't act like you're familiar with me anymore" is that it communicates. Perfect example.

I've done the mini-doorslams too. Still do. I can't say how it is you're reacting in those situations. Usually, I find self-centeredness and pride to be at the core of my mini-doorslammings.

Oooh.... still, curious choice of tags. Do Avril likes doorslamming?
For me it's disagreement and/or disgust, tho. At times it's disgust. "You think/do/say THAT? ew." ; a simple disagreement or a simple difference in ideals without proof (no matter how bad/different) would be met with 'agreeing to disagree' to me, but expressing that in your actions.... I can't stand it.

Of course, a degree of self-centeredness and pride still exists.