[PUG] The Left's Difficulty Accepting Election/Referendum Results

Postscript

If the left wishes America to change fundamentally, I wish America to be preserved fundamentally (that's a conservative view). Right now you have an entirely conservative government and judiciary rolling into Washington. The subtle destruction has stopped, so there's nothing left for the left to continue destroying the US, except through barbarous violent protest. This too must be utterly stopped. imo.

To answer my own OP question, I think the left cannot accept the results of a democratic election gracefully because they don't actually value the democratic process, unless it facilitates their agenda. I think Trump was being artfully ironic and sarcastic when he said he would only accept the election result without question if he won, because he knew (despite the left's rhetoric), that the left could never accept democratic election results if it didn't go their way.
 
@Flavus Aquila It was Trump that said he would not accept the election results and called the system rigged when he thought he might lose. Now you say he was being "artfully ironic". It is this a joke?? This argument is beneath even you and it just plain laughable. It has no logical consistency whatsoever. Now you seriously want Trump to be an "emperor" turning America into some sort tip-pot dictatorship? All because some people want to exercise their right to protest because they know they will have no place in Trump's America?

Please tell me the previous two post were just satirical.
 
brightmoon said:
@Flavus Aquila It was Trump that said he would not accept the election results and called the system rigged when he thought he might lose. Now you say he was being "artfully ironic". It is this a joke?? This argument is beneath even you and it just plain laughable. It has no logical consistency whatsoever. Now you seriously want Trump to be an "emperor" turning America into some sort tip-pot dictatorship? All because some people want to exercise their right to protest because they know they will have no place in Trump's America?

Please tell me the previous two post were just satirical.
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Admittedly, my imagination is running wild about unlikely possibilities. Even if Trump didn't have an ironic intention in his comments about his acceptance of election results, there is undeniably irony in the fact that people aren't accepting the result, who condemned Trump on this very point a week ago.

All in all I find the entire situation a bit funny... I'll confess that the evolving disposition of the Clinton victory celebration during election day had me laughing so hard, I almost peed myself.

I was mostly sobered up by the lack of triumphalism in Trump's victory speech... except for the fact that Clinton was a no-show for her grieving supporters.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
that the left could never accept democratic election results if it didn't go their way.
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You would not be able to accept it either if your rights, health, and safety were going to be taken away by a candidate that won on a platform of hate speech. People are going to die once the ACA is repealed and protections for minority groups are undone. Their blood is on your hands, but I am guessing that is what you want.

Do you care at all about people that are different from you?
 
I have been reading this thread. Yea I can read. I see some pretty bad things said about the Americans who supported Trump. I have a problem. If a person is more loving more accepting smarter and more intelligent why do they have so much intolerance? Intolerance that is just as bad or worse than the perceived intolerance that they are going through. You lose all credibility when you do such things. And you let hypocrisy rule your life. By opening your heart and showing love you win over those that hate you. By trying to force them to like or accept you by rule will only create a bigger back lash. Why create the very conflict you say you want to avoid.

You will never get everyone to like or accept you. It's impossible. And you would have to kill or jail those that oppose you to gain that acceptance. And that is acceptance? That is winning them over? That is tolerance?
 
Dragon said:
Because we will face increased discrimination, less security, and less support when they implement the changes they are planning, which means poverty, sickness, and death for us. All of us are going to suffer, and thousands of us will die.

@Flavus Aquila You have to be sitting in a place of privilege to even ask a question like this. The way things impact you are not how they impact other people. People of color, women, LGBTQ+, disabled, and others had much to lose by Trump winning.

Please check your privilege.
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Dragon said:
You would not be able to accept it either if your rights, health, and safety were going to be taken away by a candidate that won on a platform of hate speech. People are going to die once the ACA is repealed and protections for minority groups are undone. Their blood is on your hands, but I am guessing that is what you want.

Do you care at all about people that are different from you?
Click to expand...

Who is going to do this to you? The American public? Gay rights has been making traction for decades. And it will continue because people are getting their conscience back and they are listening to it again. People are opening up their hearts to one another. That is the message of the election. That we have to unite together. We do not need the president to lead us we lead the president. This idea that government can and will solve society's woes is dead wrong. And it has been seen and proven to be wrong. By dividing us into groups it allows them to control all of us. As long as we see one-another as this group or that one we never see each other as humans. Which we all are.

Living in fear is destructive to your mental health. I hope your not living in fear.
 
efromm said:
Who is going to do this to you? The American public? Gay rights has been making traction for decades. And it will continue because people are getting their conscience back and they are listening to it again. People are opening up their hearts to one another. That is the message of the election. That we have to unite together. We do not need the president to lead us we lead the president. This idea that government can and will solve society's woes is dead wrong. And it has been seen and proven to be wrong. By dividing us into groups it allows them to control all of us. As long as we see one-another as this group or that one we never see each other as humans. Which we all are.

Living in fear is destructive to your mental health. I hope your not living in fear.
Click to expand...

Are you kidding me? I live every day in fear. If I was not afraid, I would not be hiding who I am. I do not get to live and never have really.

Trump has said that he will undo President Obama's executive orders and repeal the ACA, which means that the new transgender coverage mandate goes with it as well as protections from discrimination for transgender people at the federal level. Without healthcare or protection from job discrimination, transgender people will not be able to get the medical treatment that we need in order to live, and we will not have any recourse when discriminated against in the workplace (which the majority of transgender people face). The hopelessness of never being able to find work plus not having medical care is a great recipe for suicide. Also, if a "religious freedom" bill hits his desk, he will probably sign it, formally legalizing discrimination. Lack of the executive orders will impact others as well, especially illegal immigrants (which is what they want). He will not do anything to move things forward either, and that is unacceptable when things are already so bad. The VP-elect is pro-conversion therapy, and without the federal government condemning and prohibiting it, it will proliferate. It is why Leelah Alcorn and her copy-cats threw themselves in front of tractor trailers.

We are obviously not the only group either (I was just trying to answer how it might effect me and people like me because I was trying to answer your question). Americans with disabilities will suffer and die if they lose their medical care. Look at Clinton's notes on her plan to help people with disablities, and a variety of other things. She has an extensive plan to move the rights and protections of people with disabilities forward. What about Trump? All we have from him is the one time he mocked a disabled reporter.

So no, people are not listening to their conscience and opening their hearts- quite the opposite. Without government action, LGBTQ+ rights will stall and, under what Trump claims he is going to do, be reversed back more than a decade (though I will admit it is unlikely they change gay marriage at this point, but that is only one issue). I do not know what he is going to do to Muslims, immigrants, black people, and others he has repeatedly bashed, but I doubt it will be anything good (i.e. a ban on Muslims entering the country like he claimed).

Government exists to solve society's problems. Because without it, we would be out there killing each other like in centuries past.

Yes, the American public is quite terrifying- depending on where you live and who you are of course. Bigots target Muslims, people of color, people with disabilities,, LGBTQ people and others. And you know what? I would bet anything not many of those bigots voted for Hillary. The KKK is having a fucking parade because Trump won. It should be obvious what is happening. This is all about privilege and bigotry. I know to carry knives and mace if I ever want to go anywhere as me, and someday I might not have a choice if dysphoria becomes any worse. For now, I just hide from it, go home, and think about killing myself. Seeing bigots empowered and others like me being assaulted by them makes it that much more terrifying (yes, reports of LGBT people being assaulted by Trump supporters have already begun).

Finally no, we are not going to unite together. So long as people with privilege are content to carry on racism, sexism, homophobia, Islamophobia, and xenophobia, we cannot be a united country. And this is not the fault of "the left": Trump has made us more divided than ever. The President should be the one uniting us, but he has no interest in doing so because he has no interest in catering to people who are not white and who are different. Donald Trump has empowered bigots and bullies, so we have to fight him every step of the way.
 
Dragon said:
You would not be able to accept it either if your rights, health, and safety were going to be taken away by a candidate that won on a platform of hate speech. People are going to die once the ACA is repealed and protections for minority groups are undone. Their blood is on your hands, but I am guessing that is what you want.

Do you care at all about people that are different from you?
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I'm not an American, so I don't have any answer to critiques of how I vote.

I also can't take many of the complaints about what might happen hypothetically too seriously, because assault is assault, regardless of the victim, and the laws dealing with this aren't in question. Having special laws for particular groups is kind of repellent to me. Laws should have no favourites.

As for the loss of state benefits, this is such an epic case of "first world problems", that it's kind of sickening, if you've seen people with severe malnutrition, having lost all their teeth and digits. It makes my blood boil to hear people crying blue murder over the repeal of some aspects of obamacare. It's such a rareified and aloof position in the world beyond the horizons of US domestic concerns.

The proceeding rant isn't desirous of bad things for certain groups, but rather annoyance at the brattish complaints in a backdrop of a world filled with people who ACTUALLY die because they lack the most basic things most of use despicably take for granted. Example: clean drinking water, which doesn't carry deadly disease.
 
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Dragon said:
Are you kidding me? I live every day in fear. If I was not afraid, I would not be hiding who I am. I do not get to live and never have really.

Trump has said that he will undo President Obama's executive orders and repeal the ACA, which means that the new transgender coverage mandate goes with it as well as protections from discrimination for transgender people at the federal level. Without healthcare or protection from job discrimination, transgender people will not be able to get the medical treatment that we need in order to live, and we will not have any recourse when discriminated against in the workplace (which the majority of transgender people face). The hopelessness of never being able to find work plus not having medical care is a great recipe for suicide. Also, if a "religious freedom" bill hits his desk, he will probably sign it, formally legalizing discrimination. Lack of the executive orders will impact others as well, especially illegal immigrants (which is what they want). He will not do anything to move things forward either, and that is unacceptable when things are already so bad. The VP-elect is pro-conversion therapy, and without the federal government condemning and prohibiting it, it will proliferate. It is why Leelah Alcorn and her copy-cats threw themselves in front of tractor trailers.

We are obviously not the only group either (I was just trying to answer how it might effect me and people like me because I was trying to answer your question). Americans with disabilities will suffer and die if they lose their medical care. Look at Clinton's notes on her plan to help people with disablities, and a variety of other things. She has an extensive plan to move the rights and protections of people with disabilities forward. What about Trump? All we have from him is the one time he mocked a disabled reporter.

So no, people are not listening to their conscience and opening their hearts- quite the opposite. Without government action, LGBTQ+ rights will stall and, under what Trump claims he is going to do, be reversed back more than a decade (though I will admit it is unlikely they change gay marriage at this point, but that is only one issue). I do not know what he is going to do to Muslims, immigrants, black people, and others he has repeatedly bashed, but I doubt it will be anything good (i.e. a ban on Muslims entering the country like he claimed).

Government exists to solve society's problems. Because without it, we would be out there killing each other like in centuries past.

Yes, the American public is quite terrifying- depending on where you live and who you are of course. Bigots target Muslims, people of color, people with disabilities,, LGBTQ people and others. And you know what? I would bet anything not many of those bigots voted for Hillary. The KKK is having a fucking parade because Trump won. It should be obvious what is happening. This is all about privilege and bigotry. I know to carry knives and mace if I ever want to go anywhere as me, and someday I might not have a choice if dysphoria becomes any worse. For now, I just hide from it, go home, and think about killing myself. Seeing bigots empowered and others like me being assaulted by them makes it that much more terrifying (yes, reports of LGBT people being assaulted by Trump supporters have already begun).

Finally no, we are not going to unite together. So long as people with privilege are content to carry on racism, sexism, homophobia, Islamophobia, and xenophobia, we cannot be a united country. And this is not the fault of "the left": Trump has made us more divided than ever. The President should be the one uniting us, but he has no interest in doing so because he has no interest in catering to people who are not white and who are different. Donald Trump has empowered bigots and bullies, so we have to fight him every step of the way.
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I want to ask you a few questions in no particular order.
Do you think it is fair for a person to go to college to better themselves only to have their jobs given to people who did not go to college and who are not legally able to work in America? And violate the law by working as plumbers and electricians without the proper apprenticeship cards?

You have referenced killing yourself several times in this post. I am concerned. Are you serious? I hope not. That's a very frightening way to feel and believe about yourself.

So what are you going to do start a battle with the bigots? How will you deal with them?
How are they responsible for the way you feel?

Are you willing to admit your wrong if Trump does not do what you say. What if he puts all kinds of people into his administration? From all walks of life.

Is everything the white mans fault? How is it my fault? Where is my white privilege being used against minorities?

Should I kill myself and my children because we are white? Because we could most likely be racists or against gays?

Would the world be better off if all whites were dead? Zero white people? Is that possible?

What is the final solution for the white race?

How do we solve the white problem of privilege?

Can a white man ever be saved? Maybe it's too late for them from birth? Do you think so? Maybe white people should be exiled but where could they all go so that they were not a danger to the world?

I'm really trying to understand. I can't possibly see where two wrongs equal a right. Maybe you can explain where I am wrong?
 
efromm said:
I want to ask you a few questions in no particular order.
Do you think it is fair for a person to go to college to better themselves only to have their jobs given to people who did not go to college and who are not legally able to work in America? And violate the law by working as plumbers and electricians without the proper apprenticeship cards?

You have referenced killing yourself several times in this post. I am concerned. Are you serious? I hope not. That's a very frightening way to feel and believe about yourself.

So what are you going to do start a battle with the bigots? How will you deal with them?
How are they responsible for the way you feel?

Are you willing to admit your wrong if Trump does not do what you say. What if he puts all kinds of people into his administration? From all walks of life.

Is everything the white mans fault? How is it my fault? Where is my white privilege being used against minorities?

Should I kill myself and my children because we are white? Because we could most likely be racists or against gays?

Would the world be better off if all whites were dead? Zero white people? Is that possible?

What is the final solution for the white race?

How do we solve the white problem of privilege?

Can a white man ever be saved? Maybe it's too late for them from birth? Do you think so? Maybe white people should be exiled but where could they all go so that they were not a danger to the world?

I'm really trying to understand. I can't possibly see where two wrongs equal a right. Maybe you can explain where I am wrong?
Click to expand...
These questions should be given to CNN and MsNBC.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
As for the loss of state benefits, this is such an epic case of "first world problems", that it's kind of sickening, if you've seen people with severe malnutrition, having lost all their teeth and digits. It makes my blood boil to hear people crying blue murder over the repeal of some aspects of obamacare. It's such a rareified and aloof position in the world beyond the horizons of US domestic concern
Click to expand...

Sickening. You criticize the Americans for wanting a healthcare system what every other Western country has (including Australia, the one you living in). Any advanced country should have version of a healthcare system that guarantees a standard of care regardless of income.
 
efromm said:
Would the world be better off if all whites were dead? Zero white people? Is that possible?

What is the final solution for the white race?

How do we solve the white problem of privilege?

Can a white man ever be saved? Maybe it's too late for them from birth? Do you think so? Maybe white people should be exiled but where could they all go so that they were not a danger to the world?

I'm really trying to understand. I can't possibly see where two wrongs equal a right. Maybe you can explain where I am wrong?
Click to expand...

You act like the "white race" is somehow threatened or under siege. Please tell me how this is possible
 
Wyote said:
This is the underlying sentiment of the right perpetuated by left news outlets,
The fear being instigated by the media that has brought things to this point.
It is what is fueling the rage of the left.

Your comment here, I view as the most deplorable.
The right voted a troll into office and if they do not acknowledge this, they are complicit in inciting the fear.
They aren't on the streets, they are just fanning the flame from the safety of their homes.
Pretending to be innocent. They are not.
Both sides must have humility right now and acceptance for their part, or this really will happen.
This is not Brexit. This is the immolation of a country and possibly more.

You are heartless and shameful for promoting this.

Brexit and Trump
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Yeah, quit being a dick, @Flavus.Aquila you left the forum because you couldn't agree with people here who wouldn't tolerate a racist xenophobe... But now that Trump won, you're suddenly back..
 
efromm said:
So what are you going to do start a battle with the bigots? How will you deal with them?
How are they responsible for the way you feel?

Are you willing to admit your wrong if Trump does not do what you say. What if he puts all kinds of people into his administration? From all walks of life.

Is everything the white mans fault? How is it my fault? Where is my white privilege being used against minorities?

Should I kill myself and my children because we are white? Because we could most likely be racists or against gays?
Click to expand...

Do you even acknowledge that racism, discrimination, or bigotry actually exists or do you just that minorities are being too sensitive and that there is a truly level playing field?
 
I was really glad to hear Trump will not repeal Obamacare, but will rework it. Oh and that he took all talk of a Muslim ban off his website. Here's to hoping here's more of a Democrat than ya'll voted for! I think those gloating will be very surprised! (He has also not thought much of going after Clinton for her emails after his win. Nice!) I won't call you guys suckers though.
 
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