The Minimal Facts for the Resurrection of Christ.

[QuickTwist]

Is it going to get me into hot water if I admit you crack me up with this? Would it help if I told a joke about Jews? I have a gazillion.

Jesus was a "Walking Rabbi" meaning, he walked virtually everywhere. He would have been in pretty good shape. The Shroud of Turin, if it is real, also demonstrates this.

 

[meowzician]

I'm just quoting the part of the Bible you reject. From Paul, speaking of the religious leaders.

And frankly, me and my experiences don't matter much. What matters is what is true. I go by the Bible: "Let God be true and every man a liar."

Again, it is not fair that you form an opinion about me based o what ANYONE else has written or said. You wouldn't want to be treated that way. Please take the time to get to know me. I'm sure you want the same for yourself.

 

[QuickTwist]

I have an enormous respect for intellect. But there is a reason there is an F in INFJ. Your depiction of me is WAY off.

That is why I said you are free to correct me. Saying I am off about you without telling me how doesn't tell me anything.

 

[meowzician]

Honestly, I expect it.

Perhaps that's why you see it?

 

[QuickTwist]

Again, it is not fair that you form an opinion about me based o what ANYONE else has written or said. You wouldn't want to be treated that way. Please take the time to get to know me. I'm sure you want the same for yourself.

I believe the Bible is true. I believe the Bible speaks of human nature unlike any other book in existence. As such, if the Bible speaks about an issue, any experience a person has is secondary, not primary to the fact.

And I will repeat, I don't really care if people "get to know me" or not. I am not important at all. I am just a flawed human being trying to present the truth the best way I know how.

 

[QuickTwist]

Perhaps that's why you see it?

That's why I see what? I see it because my experience matches up with the Bible: "Everyone who strives to live a godly life will be persecuted."

 

[meowzician]

God is just. Every ear has the chance to hear and repent, if they should choose not to, then yes - it is said that unbelievers will not reside in Heaven.

The problem with this view is that it neglects to account for the fact that human beings make honest mistakes in what we think about things. A mistake is not a moral failure.

You wouldn’t bring someone into your home to live with you for all of eternity who loathed you, who loathed your rules…

You are attributing an attitude to ALL people who don't believe in Jesus that is just not true for many of us.

 

[just me]

Take a deep breath and relax. Let he that is among you without sin cast the first stone. They threw down their stones and walked away.

 

[QuickTwist]

I'm not just saying I see it because I expect it...

I certainly did not grow up in church hearing that I would be hated for my faith. That was never preached on the pulpit when I was growing up. I started noticing things. I started experiencing what some might call persecution. It was only then that the Bible's teaching on persecution became a a reality relevant to my life.

It wasn't until I realized that I could be persecuted for my faith, not some paranoia, but an actual possibility that I "counted the cost" so to speak. I had to die to myself. I had to realize I could die for my faith, but it would be worth it in the end.

It was when I realized my greatest fear of persecution which prevented me from believing that the words of the NT became relevant that I COULD suffer for my faith, but I have no reason to be afraid. It was the not being afraid thing that I had to get over. It plagued me for most of my life. When that prophet asked that question, I had to repent of my fear. Never been the same since. It just so happens that what I experienced is right in line with what the Bible and the NT teaches. I see people slander me and telling me to eat glass or whatever, and I just think it is expected. I see people keying my van over a period of months and years, and it doesn't phase me because I'm more wrestling with being crucified than having material goods ruined.

 

[meowzician]

I was being gentle but this set me off.

I think this is your biggest flaw.

You think you know better.

You think you are a mind reader.

This is why people do not share anything with you.

Because they know you are against them from the start.

Its none of your business to know who people are on the inside.

And if you keep insisting it is then all I have to say is that you will be doomed to fail each and every time.

You simply cannot be trusted.

And if you cannot be trusted then everything you do is just to bully others.

Everything you say may be right or wrong but you cannot know other people.

By saying you can you are not respecting others boundaries.

Violating others boundaries pisses them off.

I could go into why you do so but to make things general: people like you don't give a damn if they violate other or not, This is based on pride. Pride that they are better than others. Meaning they can do what they want no matter what. Meaning others don't trust them.

You will say you know why I for example do what I do but but that is arrogant. You simply do not know and cannot know. Only God knows.

Just stop.

why are you doing this?

reflect on where that pride is coming from.

And just stop it.

Thank you. Thank you so much. I've been in the forum for about a half hour, and not only do I feel extremely judged, and judged unfairly, but certain people have ideas about what I feel and think that just aren't true. I thought at first it was because I posts were not doing a great job relating what I think and feel. But come to find out it's not that at all. The people in question have a preconceived notion what people who don't believe in Jesus think and feel. There is nothing I can really do or say when someone has pre-judged me in that way. I really feel at a loss.

That it's coming from INFJ's, who are normally intuitive and empathic, makes it doubly baffling to me.

 

[aeon]

Given that Yahweh was a minor storm deity with a male physical body and family—him becoming the abstracted monotheist absolute of three major religions has got to be the biggest glow up ever.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[meowzician]

I don't assume people's view unless I have some KNOWLEDGE about the PoV they are coming from.

You literally just posted things you KNOW about me based NOT on what I actually say, but on stuff Paul wrote.

 

[meowzician]

I am not condemning them..

I guess I just imagined it. Maybe I need thorazine.

 

[QuickTwist]

You literally just posted things you KNOW about me based NOT on what I actually say, but on stuff Paul wrote.

View attachment 102139

I think Paul has far more knowledge about Jews than I ever will...

 

[meowzician]

That is why I said you are free to correct me. Saying I am off about you without telling me how doesn't tell me anything.

And yet when I engaged with you, the first thing that happens is I'm accused of mocking God (not you). Your own slams were MUCH more sophisticated. Your response was to TELL me what I think and feel. That is its own kind of emotional violation.

 

[QuickTwist]

And yet when I engaged with you, the first thing that happens is I'm accused of mocking God (not you). Your own slams were MUCH more sophisticated. Your response was to TELL me what I think and feel. That is its own kind of emotional violation.

There is nothing wrong with the evidence, reasoning, and logic of "Evidence that Demands a Verdict." It's not a scholarly book, but for what it is, and what it tries to do, it does an excellent job of. Apologetics has come a long way since then. Dr. Habermas is not even playing the same sport as Josh McDowell, but I don't knock down Josh McDowell because what he produced was quite good in its own right. Many atheists constantly bring objections about Christianity to the discussion. Many atheists have questioned the reasoning/logic of the book, "Evidence that Demands a Verdict." Dr. Sean McDowell, said he had to question his faith when he found that atheists created whole websites that were based on "debunking" this book. But, you will notice that Dr. McDowell has his PhD in Apologetics today and remains a verifiable source for common criticisms against Christianity.

 

[meowzician]

I believe the Bible is true

I'm going to say this quite plainly, and then I'm going to let you go and not talk to you further.

It is morally wrong to assert that someone feels/thinks/experiences something other than what they say they feel/think/experience unless you have compelling evidence that they are either lying or a mental case. When you do that to people, it makes them feel like they are crazy because it tells them they cannot trust their own perceptions or understanding of themselves. It is a form of gaslighting. There is another word for it as well, but I'd get kicked off the forum if I used it.

Appealing to "The Bible says it's true" does not get you off the hook.

You have essentially pre-judged me. Do you understand that is where the word PREJUDICE comes from?

I want to make this crystal clear. The reason I think you are behaving immorally is just that -- your BEHAVIOR. It has nothing to do with any of your religious beliefs. I know plenty of Christians who I actually admire for their loving kindness, Christians that I aspire to rise to their level of compassion and justice. But you are not one of them. And neither is your sidekick.

 

[meowzician]

Given that Yahweh was a minor storm deity with a male physical body and family—him becoming the abstracted monotheist absolute of three major religions has got to be the biggest glow up ever.

Cheers,
Ian

I think the operative word here is "was." In other words past tense. It is very clear to me at least that the Israelites came out of a polytheistic culture. The journey from polytheism through monolatry to true monotheism was long. But we did get there. I'm sure you would certainly agree that the God of Israel TODAY is not a minor storm god. He/she/it is not any power in nature, but rather, the power behind nature, it's source, it's creator.

 

[QuickTwist]

I'm going to say this quite plainly, and then I'm going to let you go and not talk to you further.

It is morally wrong to assert that someone feels/thinks/experiences something other than what they say they feel/think/experience unless you have compelling evidence that they are either lying or a mental case. When you do that to people, it makes them feel like they are crazy because it tells them they cannot trust their own perceptions or understanding of themselves. It is a form of gaslighting. There is another word for it as well, but I'd get kicked off the forum if I used it.

Appealing to "The Bible says it's true" does not get you off the hook.

You have essentially pre-judged me. Do you understand that is where the word PREJUDICE comes from?

I want to make this crystal clear. The reason I think you are behaving immorally is just that -- your BEHAVIOR. It has nothing to do with any of your religious beliefs. I know plenty of Christians who I actually admire for their loving kindness, Christians that I aspire to rise to their level of compassion and justice. But you are not one of them. And neither is your sidekick.

When I asked you how I was wrong, you didn't answer me. You diverted the issue saying that I was trying to read your mind, or whatever... As I tried to tell you, I am just going by what you yourself said and filling in the blanks as to why you left Christianity. You don't like me doing that. I understand why. It's intrusive. It's perceived as me telling you your experiences don't matter. That's not my intention. But humans are quantifiable and people have certain tropes and archetypes that they belong to. No one is completely free from commonalities in the human race. We all "fit" somewhere. We CAN be categorized. Some people are fine with that and other people are not. But, one example where you are totally cool with it is labeling yourself an INFJ. But when it comes to religion, that is off limits for some reason. IDK why. Now, when I say I believe the Bible, that Paul has far more knowledge than I do about Jews, and that Paul is speaking to common experiences, you reject this. But when I literally go out of my way to ask you, "How am I wrong about you?" your response is that I had previously spoken about things which appear self evident to me about your experience. So, when I try and correct my mistake and ASK YOU you default to my mistake rather than what I was asking you at that moment.

IDK what I am supposed to do... I did assume things about you based on how people normally operate... When I did that, I made a clarifiers you were free to correct me. That started a big thing to me asking you explicitly how I was wrong and your response was based on what I said about what are COMMON WAYS people think. So, yes. I typically use heuristics to understand people. When they tell me my heuristics are wrong, I will try and ask them what I am wrong about, But in both the case with Aeon and yourself, you just don't want to actually tell me how I am wrong, for whatever reason. In other words, Yes, I make assumptions about things that I think are based on common ways people are. When I am wrong, I ask the person what I am wrong about. At that point, the person can either tell me what I am wrong about (which I would consider very normal behavior) or they can not answer me for whatever reason. So, when people block me because I made an initial mistake and tried to correct that mistake, I'm not sure what I need to do at that point.

 

[QuickTwist]

Maybe I just should not assume what people are like. IDK what changes I need to make to do that, but it's really hard for me not to assume things about people, especially when I am first getting to know them. In this way, I tend to assume less and less about the person as time goes on. IDK how NOT to do this where I categorize people. It's a huge flaw on my end and I'm just not sure how to correct that.