To shit with respect!

[CindyLou]

What do you want Billy? Do you want all the religious people to leave the forum, or just the Christians?

 

[Patrick Williams]

I am pro-socialism!
I am for slavery!
Drugs should all be legal!
PS3 is superior to Xbox360!
We need less police!
Unions strangle profitability and work ethic!
Welfare should be ended!
Abortion should be illegal!
homosexuality is a choice!


Are all claims people make which are open to debate, argument and ridicule. We have no need for respecting these views if we disagree, and disagree many of us shall... why then does Religion get a pass?

Why is it expecting in this day and age, that any claim (save religion) has to be backed up and defended. Why does religion get a pass?

I feel no need to honor and respect peoples religious views anymore than I do that homosexuality is a choice or abortion is murder, these are stupid claims, and I feel no remorse in calling them exactly that. Stupid, and based on ignorance. Only when I say that about those claims, people say, well he is passionate and I guess he is entitled to his argument. But as soon as we say something like "faith is synonymous with blind belief" and blind belief is not a good way to live, we are suddenly OGRES trying to destroy the fabric of reality.

I am sick of this "we must respect religious beliefs" mantra.

Religious people hold the reigns of power, they are NOT victims. They cannot be victimized on a systemic level the way they pretend to be. That is an absurd notion. Meanwhile they are forcing laws onto people via the courts and government that have absolutely NO merit in reality outside of their narrow dogmatic belief structure. Its bullshit, and I propose the idea that religion is just another (bad) idea that is VERY open to ridicule and argument. It belongs in the mental rubbish bin with other outdated methods for understanding. It was useful once upon a time in barbaric times, no longer is it needed.

Billy, I feel like your holding back on your feelings - don't be afraid to say what you really feel! : - ) (just messing with you)

Seriously though, you have some valid points and some not so valid points (IMO). People definately do abuse religion or their lack of religion. In America, a certain cultural religion has combined with politics and has formed this quasi-Christianity that is basically America's default religion or beliefs. It is mostly of the Christian flavor but it has been diluted enough to appeal to the masses and that is what we mostly see in America (of course, this is too simplified but we are all just sharing here our thoughts). This, of course, is only my opinion and I may be wrong in my perception. I am a Christian and even I find it frustrating at many levels (not at the same depth as you do, of course, but I can understand some of your frustration). Try and not let it get you frustrated too much though.

 

[Billy]

Why slavery?

Its irrelevant.

 

[Billy]

@Billy



Would you be able to accept that the religious beliefs of people should be considered with tact?
I think all of those other things you listed deserve to be discussed with tact.

Respect? Possibly not.

Tact? Certainly.

In my mind this is a case of emotive semantics. Respect is too heavy a word and holds too many connotations.

If you disagree that tact can and should be used when dealing with emotive issues, religious or otherwise; I'd like to know why you feel that way.

Its obviously dependent on the person. My reasons are my own, I just dont think some ideas are deserving of tact or respect. Would you discuss alien abductions with tact? Why? Its absurd. How about the Easter bunny, or Chupa Cabra? I certainly wouldnt, I would scoff at such things, and IMO rightfully so.

 

[Billy]

What do you want Billy? Do you want all the religious people to leave the forum, or just the Christians?

Ultimately? I want religion to go to the wastebasket where it belongs. As for this forum? To be honest I didnt really plan it that far ahead... but I guess I would like to see religious people talk less about their religion, before this current flurry of religion-bashing got going, this place was almost unbearably religious in a lot of places. That people feel defensive when they go to talk about their religious beliefs now as opposed to feeling its carte blanche to just spew it all over the place, well I find that an improvement.

 

[acd]

Hah never mind.

 

[Billy]

Billy, I feel like your holding back on your feelings - don't be afraid to say what you really feel! : - ) (just messing with you)

Seriously though, you have some valid points and some not so valid points (IMO). People definately do abuse religion or their lack of religion. In America, a certain cultural religion has combined with politics and has formed this quasi-Christianity that is basically America's default religion or beliefs. It is mostly of the Christian flavor but it has been diluted enough to appeal to the masses and that is what we mostly see in America (of course, this is too simplified but we are all just sharing here our thoughts). This, of course, is only my opinion and I may be wrong in my perception. I am a Christian and even I find it frustrating at many levels (not at the same depth as you do, of course, but I can understand some of your frustration). Try and not let it get you frustrated too much though.

Let me worry about my feelings, I don't know why it is the default position of so many people to automatically assume someone they disagree with is angry, frothing at the mouth and slamming their keyboards, if you knew anything about me, you would know that I don't do that. Granted, I see no reason to coddle and use tact for positions I find absurd. Think of me more as calmly using my trenchant remarks with a hint of a smile. One thing about me, is I don't tend to get ruled by frustration, I just find an alternate angle to move my goals forward.

 

[Billy]

No. Really. Why?

If your opinions are so important why not explain?

I am not sure what you are asking me... why did I say slavery? For the same reason I said all that other stuff.

 

[Kmal]

Ultimately? I want religion to go to the wastebasket where it belongs.

It predicts the end of religion in Christianity, revelation 21:22, so wait for a sign. I'll wait with you.

 

[Billy]

It predicts the end of religion in Christianity, revelation 21:22, so wait for a sign. I'll wait with you.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Billy, I must disagree with you:

In other words, I respect your opinions - even though I don't agree with a few of them.

 

[Billy]

Billy, I must disagree with you:

In other words, I respect your opinions - even though I don't agree with a few of them.

Thats nice?

 

[Flavus Aquila]

Thats nice?

No - fatty, sugary food is nice.

 

[Billy]

No - fatty, sugary food is nice.

ok, its not nice, so then its a form of condescension.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

ok, its not nice, so then its a form of condescension.

If to respect people's opinions that I disagree with is condescension, then I'm condescending.

However, I have always thought of it as being about respecting people irrespective of their opinions. It's about people being more valuable than opinions.

 

[Billy]

If to respect people's opinions that I disagree with is condescension, then I'm condescending.

However, I have always thought of it as being about respecting people irrespective of their opinions. It's about people being more valuable than opinions.

And completely superfluous to any real battle of ideas. I would say it makes you a better person than I, but that would just be social conditioning and I disagree with that as well.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

And completely superfluous to any real battle of ideas. I would say it makes you a better person than I, but that would just be social conditioning and I disagree with that as well.

True, the principle of respectful disagreement is superfluous to the "battle of ideas" as you put it. But it draws boundaries, so that such "battles of ideas" do not become irrelevant and injurious personal attacks.

In essence this is true social conditioning, because it's aim is to preserve social (interpersonal) relationships, even when there is disagreement.

 

[Billy]

True, the principle of respectful disagreement is superfluous to the "battle of ideas" as you put it. But it draws boundaries, so that such "battles of ideas" do not become irrelevant and injurious personal attacks.

In essence this is true social conditioning, because it's aim is to preserve social (interpersonal) relationships, even when there is disagreement.

That's not my principle. I will do my best to attack the idea vs the person, but I am not perfect.

 

[CindyLou]

Ultimately? I want religion to go to the wastebasket where it belongs. As for this forum? To be honest I didnt really plan it that far ahead... but I guess I would like to see religious people talk less about their religion, before this current flurry of religion-bashing got going, this place was almost unbearably religious in a lot of places. That people feel defensive when they go to talk about their religious beliefs now as opposed to feeling its carte blanche to just spew it all over the place, well I find that an improvement.

Was anyone ever disrespectful to you here? I just recently started coming here on a regular basis...I guess I wasn't paying attention to what was going on when I was. I am sorry you are so upset. It is unnerving to read your posts sometimes. I hate to read someone seemingly so torn up on the inside...it makes me feel torn up. At first I thought it was all in fun, but now I know its not.

From your posts when you're being cool, I like you, and it sucks that it seems you have a visceral hate for a part of who I am...Lately, I feel like I need to pop a xanax before I log on the forum. I don't want to create a toxic bond to the site. olololol

Healthy, sane, adults are not going to spend their free time hanging out and trying to form connections in a toxic online community environment. You're trying to justify virtual abuse. This really can't be a healthy environment for anyone.

I personally will talk less about it, for you. It is not an area of my life that I particularly talk about in real life, no need to discuss it here.

 

[Jana]

Ultimately? I want religion to go to the wastebasket where it belongs. As for this forum? To be honest I didnt really plan it that far ahead... but I guess I would like to see religious people talk less about their religion, before this current flurry of religion-bashing got going, this place was almost unbearably religious in a lot of places. That people feel defensive when they go to talk about their religious beliefs now as opposed to feeling its carte blanche to just spew it all over the place, well I find that an improvement.

Recently I talked about religion only because of threads like yours. For every other time, one of the huma right is freedom of belifs, so you can rumble as much as you want...I will talk about what I want when I want...You can't change that or me...
It is interesting how much you can hate people you don't actually know...hm...