What defines leading someone on? Or being a flirt? And do INFJs do that?

I would have to agree that I have a "sex" ladder, a "friend" ladder, and a "holy cow they're both" elevator.

I think they can cross over though...I don't like the idea that just because I consider someone a friend right now, that it's not possible to be interested in them romantically later!


However, this does make me feel better about potential dates....if there's only one ladder for guys, then it makes me feel like if they say 'hi' to a lady, you're practically in with them. This has expanded my dating potential exponentially. Time to ask out every guy that smiles and says hello to me!
 
say what said:
I think they can cross over though...I don't like the idea that just because I consider someone a friend right now, that it's not possible to be interested in them romantically later!
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I think most guys know when they are on the friend ladder and are okay with being there because they are waiting on that moment when you see them as something more and hopefully that means graduating to the relationship/sex ladder.

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CrazyBeautiful said:
I think most guys know when they are on the friend ladder and are okay with being there because they are waiting on that moment when you see them as something more and hopefully that means graduating to the relationship/sex ladder.

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Maybe but from my perspective I have never known. Women I thought had no interest in me turns out they did and women I thought did, it turns out did not. Whether that is true for most guys I cant say.
 
That reminds me of a girl that used to be at this nursery I went to early in life for a job I had. Every time I went in there to pay for plants, she wouldnt say anything and would look at me as if I was the most detestable person on earth. EVERY TIME. :) To this day I still wonder about it.
 
Eventhorizon said:
That reminds me of a girl that used to be at this nursery I went to early in life for a job I had. Every time I went in there to pay for plants, she wouldnt say anything and would look at me as if I was the most detestable person on earth. EVERY TIME. :) To this day I still wonder about it.
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What were you wearing? Then I'll tell you what ladder you were on.

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Jk, she was probably just a miserable person.
 
I was actually wondering about this a few weeks ago. I met a guy at church and he seems to show interest, asking me whether I had graduated (as in high school) and what year I was in school, which I consider his way of fishing for my age (it seemed very obvious, because it was two different encounters). Anyway, my answers to both were "yes" and "Junior" which is NOT lying. However I am younger than the average junior in college...One of my friends though said I was leading him on by not telling him my age because I believe he is in his mid twenties maybe (don't know for sure) which means he is probably too old for me. I thought that was an odd thing to say though. He hasn't asked for my number or anything and hasn't asked for a date. He has really been nothing but friendly, and I back to him. I'm not a flirter, so I have no idea if she is right and I was leading him on. I haven't seen him for a few weeks due to personal reasons, so when I go back I may have to deal with this. I think he's very kind, but the age difference is too much for me to handle right now. I also don't know how to nicely say "I'm too young for you" when he has not made clear intentions.
 
If I'm mildly attracted to someone, I find it alright if that person is attracted to me too in some respect (doesn't need to be sexual), but doesn't actually want sex or to be in a relationship with me. The reverse scenario I find quite comfortable as well so long as it doesn't result in hurt feelings. I think maybe part of that is that there's still a mutual emotional validation and a wanted nourishing exchange of emotions of sorts, which is adequate for me. It gives something beyond the kind of friendship I could have with someone who isn't attracted to me in any way. I actually tend to prefer being mildly attracted to male or lesbian friends as well, but feel less of a need for some degree of symmetry in those feelings from them and can enjoy the rather one-sided adoration from my direction. This also applies to some homosexual/bi men or heterosexual/bi women where I sort of know I'm not their type or its just not in their nature to have low intensity attractions.

I suspect around two thirds of the friendships I had with female individuals in the past included them being sexually or romantically attracted to me during some period, a thin majority of those were partially reciprocated on my part at some point, but not enough that I actually wanted to be deeply involved with them in such ways. I have the casual warmth / friendliness often exuded by INFJs. When my attraction levels for someone is configured, their attraction for me is somehow mixed into the formula, which leads to me pretty much never having had a strong unreciprocated attraction to someone (unrequited love).

TL: DR I like mingling some emotional aspects commonly found mostly in romantic or sexual relationships into my friendships. It feels healthy and enjoyable for me. I think culture has played some part in programming people towards strict emotional categories and relationship algorithms that yield a higher incident of unrequited love. People also not integrating and modulating feelings well together with awareness of one's situation is other-side-of-coin related to this and also a strong contributor. Also, desperation, societal pressure, inability to cope with "romantic aloneness" (percieved to be only fixable through gf/bf) and lack of strong intimacy.
 
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latte said:
If I'm mildly attracted to someone, I find it alright if that person is attracted to me too in some respect (doesn't need to be sexual), but doesn't actually want sex or to be in a relationship with me. The reverse scenario I find quite comfortable as well so long as it doesn't result in hurt feelings. I think maybe part of that is that there's still a mutual emotional validation and a wanted nourishing exchange of emotions of sorts, which is adequate for me. It gives something beyond the kind of friendship I could have with someone who isn't attracted to me in any way. I actually tend to prefer being mildly attracted to male or lesbian friends as well, but feel less of a need for some degree of symmetry in those feelings from them and can enjoy the rather one-sided adoration from my direction. This also applies to some homosexual/bi men or heterosexual/bi women where I sort of know I'm not their type or its just not in their nature to have low intensity attractions.

I suspect around two thirds of the friendships I had with female individuals in the past included them being sexually or romantically attracted to me during some period, a thin majority of those were partially reciprocated on my part at some point, but not enough that I actually wanted to be deeply involved with them in such ways. I have the casual warmth / friendliness often exuded by INFJs. When my attraction levels for someone is configured, their attraction for me is somehow mixed into the formula, which leads to me pretty much never having had a strong unreciprocated attraction to someone (unrequited love).

TL: DR I like mingling some emotional aspects commonly found mostly in romantic or sexual relationships into my friendships. It feels healthy and enjoyable for me. I think culture has played some part in programming people towards strict emotional categories and relationship algorithms that yield a higher incident of unrequited love. People also not integrating and modulating feelings well together with awareness of one's situation is other-side-of-coin related to this and also a strong contributor. Also, desperation, societal pressure, inability to cope with "romantic aloneness" (percieved to be only fixable through gf/bf) and lack of strong intimacy.
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I agree with you.

This happened to me. I fell in love with an infj. She has strong relationship algorithms and places the people in her life into strict categories of friends, family, and person she loves.

I'm not strict with categories and see relationships in shades of grey.

ie, my mom is my friend as much as my family. My male best friend and I go out together always paying separately and doing what two people would normally do on a date save for the physical affection of a couple. We look like a couple if you look at how we talk to each other and know what the other is thinking.

I see so many shades of grey in relationships that I saw this infj as a great friend who could be a great girlfriend. Only as soon as I told her, things got awkward on her side. She's a lesbian. She's single. Same age. Same interests.

But I'm in her friend category and she doesn't want to put me in person she loves category. A friend who is attracted to her doesn't compute. I don't fit in a neat category. My attraction to her destroyed our friendship. Her strict categories don't allow for a friend who openly acknowledged an attraction to her.

Leading someone on? We were emotionally on the level of long time lovers before I confessed my interest in actually becoming her lover.

I felt like she was leading me on. My algorithms don't compute having such an intimate friendship then her jumping ship as soon as I admitted my attraction.
 
'algorithms', 'compute' in the same sentence as the word 'relationship'?

This is a good insight into the difference between INFJ's and INTJ's
 
If you know a friend is interested in you as 'more than just friends', and they invite you out for a dinner to celebrate a milestone in your life, is it leading them on if you go and you're not interested? Or is it rude to (a) decline their nice gesture and (b) make the assumption that they're going to read into it as something more than just friends?
 
say what said:
If you know a friend is interested in you as 'more than just friends', and they invite you out for a dinner to celebrate a milestone in your life, is it leading them on if you go and you're not interested? Or is it rude to (a) decline their nice gesture and (b) make the assumption that they're going to read into it as something more than just friends?
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Its not rude to say no if you aren't comfortable. I can guarantee though that if you say yes, the person will think they have put a chink in your armor. If they are interested in you they cant just put that to the side. They can still be your friend, just always with that back motive.

You could say hey, Id like to have you along but understand and make no mistake about it, I am not intersted in you as anything other than a friend. Do it nicely and I think that in the long run you are doing them a favor.



:)
 
iHeartCats said:
Using words or body language to make the victim notice that you want sexual intercourse with them.



Only if their avatar looks like a flirt.
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Victim, eh?
 
say what said:
If you know a friend is interested in you as 'more than just friends', and they invite you out for a dinner to celebrate a milestone in your life, is it leading them on if you go and you're not interested? Or is it rude to (a) decline their nice gesture and (b) make the assumption that they're going to read into it as something more than just friends?
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I would say that it depends on them rather than the gesture itself. Will this person be upset if you don't think of it as a date, or if you don't want to go out again with them? Because if that person is taking you out for this reason just so that they can be on a date with you then they are being disingenuous with their feelings. At best, they could be hoping that after going out with them you might think of them differently. It is more likely the case that they are missing the wood for the trees, and think that convincing someone to leave the house with you is convincing them that you two should date. I mean, it doesn't always *not* work, it's just a bit of a long shot.

Coming from the perspective of someone who has sometimes gone out with someone "as friends" even though they are interested in me, it has rarely worked out well.

tl;dr depending on the maturity of this person, you should not be afraid to be rude to them. after all, they should be forthright with you, and be sensitive enough not to put you in an awkward circumstance.

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot, congratulations on your life milestone!
 
I have very little life experience, and as a person just graduated from high school, my perspective on personal relationships is basically invalid.

But I will say, as an INFJ female, I have always felt strong connections to all people, male and female, and I treat them exactly the same. I have had to turn down guy friends all too often, and afterwards I still try to be friends with them. Even ten years from now, if a guy from high school contacted me wanting my help with something or just wanting to talk, I would totally meet up with him, and in no way would I be implying that there was any chance of a relationship between us. To me, that's just being a good person or a good friend. I can't turn it off, and I have resigned never to be closed off or less than myself just to protect guys from "getting their feelings hurt" because I really think a lot of guys are mature enough to handle the realization that a girl just isn't into them like that.
 
rawr said:
no. Not only.
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Just particularly.


niffer said:
I agree that it makes things hard/awkward.

One thing I DO think INFJs may be a bit more prone to is being more naive about this stuff. I say this because I see male INFJs get screwed over romantically in similar ways. It's the combination of being oblivious and idealistic.
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That's not fair, I got it right on my third try and I only had one stalker as a result(does the stalker make 4 tries?)




Back on subject, I think this whole conversation could be shifted away from the male female and MBTI dichotomies and moved towards people who simply feel lonely, when your feeling at loss for companion ship especially the intimate kind your going to start looking for it in people in your life and the loger you are without the more you want the more you want it the more intent you become to find and that leads to looking for it in pepole who can't or won't return those kind of feelings. whether that's men or women, I knew lots of guys like this in college shoot I was one of them.

The best advice I can offer to some in this situation is be honest and kind, but more importantly honest. Let them know that your not interested and let them know why whether that's their personality or their personal hygiene that makes them unattractive.

I wish dating was still a thing for most people, it makes life in these situations so much easier. I went through the whole hanging out and mind reading practice that is modern male and female relationships with three different women and it was always a mess and ended badly for party or another(seriously stalkers). I asked my now wife out on date cause I was tired of the run around and thought she might like me and the rest is history.

Dates are great each party lays out their cards without any of the distractions of hanging out or the commitments of a full relationship.
 
I am going to agree 100% that men and women cannot be plutonic friends within a certain degree (There are always exceptions to the rule). That degree is mainly attraction. If I am really attracted to a girl, I cannot be her “friend”. It doesn’t mean I am going to be a jerk but I am not going to sit around and listen to her talk about the guys she likes. It’s awkward because the whole time I am thinking, “I could treat you better” which means I am not being a true friend so I am not going to do it.

I am a guy and therefore I don’t want to be treated like one of your girlfriends. If I am really attracted to a girl, I don’t want to hear her talk about other guys. Just as I am sure that girls who really like a guy don’t want to hear him talk about the girls he is interested in. You can talk about sports, video games, family, work, school, etc… pretty much anything but relationships and crushes. Call me egotistical but I don’t like being treated like I am a girlfriend.

However if there is no attraction then I agree it is possible. I am one of two guys in my office. The rest are all female and I have no interest in them and so we are friends. The reason behind this is:

One, they are all at least a few years older than me,
Two, I don’t dip my pen in company ink, it causes too much drama and too many problems,
Three, they are beautiful women but none of them appeal to me in that way, and
Four, it shouldn’t need to be said but it happens too often, they are all married and I don’t pursue other guys love interests. I think it’s the lowest of the low and it’s a line I won’t cross.

And to answer the other question, yes I have been called a flirt but I am not an INFJ. Flirting is fun, sorry. It’s not always about sex, sometimes it’s just fun have that type of banter with a girl.
 
I think it only counts as 'leading someone on' if the party doing the 'leading on' is aware that the other person likes them, isn't interested but deliberately behaves as if they might be for the purposes of stroking their own ego or keeping the potential relationship on the back-burner. It requires the intent to deceive.

As for anything else, such as people reading into or giving mixed signals, I think that's largely subconscious or the consequence of an interested party seeing what they wish to see. That isn't 'leading someone on,' that's really just what qualifies as the chase. Sometimes you get the girl/guy you like, sometimes you don't. In between, it's all about how well you're able to read people and how well you're able to communicate your interest in pursuing someone romantically.
 
It happens a lot when one partner is trying to get another one jealous.
 
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