What Does It Take For God To Save A Sinner?

[j654dgj7]

I know I'm harping on it, but I personally feel like there's major differences between being intolerant, disagreeing with someone, and being a bigot. They're all very different.

Disagreeing with a bigot's point of view is not, to me, hypocritical. I understand that in the broader idea of things, there may be some philosophical paradox of intolerance...but in regards to this situation, where [MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION] and I are being called bigots because we don't support or condone hateful speech is - to me - unfair. We're a bigot if we do condone it, and a bigot if we don't? How does one get to choose not to be a bigot?

If you had read the BIBLE you would have KNOWN that SAY WHAT is CORRECT.

THERE is no DOUBT that there is a DIFFERENCE

between BEING a BIGOT, DISAGREEMENT and INTOLERANCE.

ANYONE claiming to DISAGREE will FOREVER be cast into the FALSE category of my SCRAPBOOK that I KEEP in my MOTHER'S apartment.

PLEASE let me HELP you understand the TRUTH of linguistics!

I want to SHARE with you the TRUTH of how the SCRIPTURE of MERRIAM-WEBSTER is to be INTERPRETED.

HERE'S a QUOTE from the BIBLE to DRIVE home my POINT:

Ephesians 4:2 ESV

With all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love

 

[LucyJr]

could you explain more...what do you mean by this?

Oprah would know instantlly what I said. And she would probably get mad too...

I'm still waiting for you to explain the word "hate" and what it means.

 

[say what]

Oprah would know instantlly what I said. And she would probably get mad too...

I'm still waiting for you to explain the word "hate" and what it means.

Once you explain what you meant

 

[LucyJr]

Once you explain what you meant

why? ios that really important?

 

[say what]

why? ios that really important?

given the context of the discussion - intolerance and bigotry- I think it is.

I thought you are a woman, and I tried to make it complicated, so as you can understand it.

 

[LucyJr]

given the context of the discussion - intolerance and bigotry- I think it is.

I just thought is funny you said this:

you love making something simple, unnecessarily complicated... don't you?

I don't know why I answered that why. Don't ask me.

 

[say what]

You want to go simple? Here we go simple: explain the word "hate" please.

Hatred (or hate) is a deep and emotional extreme dislike that can be directed against individuals, entities, objects, or ideas. Hatred is often associated with feelings of anger and a disposition towards hostility.

However, hate can also be contextually defined - the bible, psychology, law, etc. all have variations of what 'hate' is.

Being intolerant or disagreeing with someone doesn't automatically mean you hate them or their beliefs.

This is where I think we differ, you see it to be black and white - I see hatred, intolerance, is disagreement to be three very different actions/behaviours.

 

[sprinkles]

If intolerance is a paradox then what about the apparent belief that God is intolerant?

 

[LucyJr]

However, hate can also be contextually defined - the bible, psychology, law, etc. all have variations of what 'hate' is.

Being intolerant or disagreeing with someone doesn't automatically mean you hate them or their beliefs.

This is where I think we differ, you see it to be black and white - I see hatred, intolerance, is disagreement to be three very different actions/behaviours.

And in light of the definitions you posted, especialy what I bolded, do you still think SG is hateful and spreading hate?

Also please keep in mind that I didn't you accuse you of hatred, so don't defend yourself on that inexistent line.

Tough what I do think is incorrect is accusing SG of hatred (bigotry is a whole new level), which I don't think is true.

 

[LucyJr]

Intolerance is not a paradox, is self-contradictory and absurdity.

 

[sprinkles]

If God is perfect, always does right and never does wrong, and God hates some kind of people, or at least does not love them, if there are people who are predestined to go to hell and God does not love them, is that not in fact teaching hate?

That is teaching hate. If God is perfectly right, it would mean that loving a sinner is a sin itself. If God doesn't love somebody then that would mean not loving that person is ultimately correct.

 

[LucyJr]

And what do we do with people that "teach hate"? Can someone please answer to this question?

 

[LucyJr]

I read in history of old men that tought mankind is disgusting, miserable, evil and going toward self-destruction. Big men in my thinking.
Had they lived today they would be astonished for sure... Nobody thinks humanity is miserable today. Humanity is screaming today for "self-esteem", "self-gratification", "self-love", "finding the true self". New ages are on the horizont, with "bright cities that can be build one day". But still, there is nothing new under the sun...

 

[Average]

And what do we do with people that "teach hate"? Can someone please answer to this question?

You begging more questions there no simple answers there are only riddle my friend. Or I call it that...what I mean we do nothing with them, we leave them be. I so late them then let the world around them give em what they asking for...

 

[LucyJr]

You begging more questions there no simple answers there are only riddle my friend. Or I call it that...what I mean we do nothing with them, we leave them be. I so late them then let the world around them give em what they asking for...

But what if hatred is expressed with actions, not just words? What do we do with people like these?

 

[Average]

But what if hatred is expressed with actions, not just words? What do we do with people like these?

We dash em out the window. Don't take life lightly it's not just a game it had serious consequences so if you ever find yourself in predicament call me lol

 

[LucyJr]

And what do we do with people that "teach hate"? Can someone please answer to this question?

This question is more toward sprinkles...will you please answer this questions, since you accuse SG of hatred?

If God is perfect, always does right and never does wrong, and God hates some kind of people, or at least does not love them, if there are people who are predestined to go to hell and God does not love them, is that not in fact teaching hate?

That is teaching hate. If God is perfectly right, it would mean that loving a sinner is a sin itself. If God doesn't love somebody then that would mean not loving that person is ultimately correct.

 

[Lark]

Its interesting that there's a real live evangelist on the forum because it illustrates the mess of contradictions that modern protestant evangelism is.

On the one hand its stated repeatedly that the deal is done, Jesus has died and that his sacrifice has meant salvation, there is nothing that anyone living now can do to warrant salvation and also that this salvation does not extend to everyone, then there's a message that there's something sinners have got to do to warrant saving? It doesnt take too much of a philosophical heavy weight or deep thinker to see the error there, its either the one or the other, its a pretty dichotomous arrangement.

So what's really at hand is the problem that if Jesus died for an elect how do you ensure you're part of the elect? Well the answer is you dont.

Early protestants knew this too and settled on the whole "richest man in the cemetary" idea, that if you worked hard, saved, led an abstemonious lifestyle, perished a wealthy individual then the wealth could be considered a sign of God's favour and you were one of the elect. It didnt seem to trouble anyone too much this was precisely the sort of thinking which Jesus challenged the whole time he was alive in all of his ministry in both word and deed.

Salvation is either an unconditional gift from God or its not. Its not qualified by where you hang your hat on sundays or which later day, because they are all later day, preacher or reformer or scriptural idollator minister you're dead set upon.

Now the sort of God who has an elect, on any basis ethnocentric or economic or ideological, who favours the rich with riches, begins the suffering of others in this life with poverty as an automatic prefiguring of eternal suffering and relies upon something so capricious, perfidious and mendacious as literature manufactured by human beings to determine eternal fate is no God at all. Its as base an idea as any from the pantheon of greek and roman mythology and definitely foreign to Jesus Christ.

 

[say what]

And in light of the definitions you posted, especialy what I bolded, do you still think SG is hateful and spreading hate?

Also please keep in mind that I didn't you accuse you of hatred, so don't defend yourself on that inexistent line.

Tough what I do think is incorrect is accusing SG of hatred (bigotry is a whole new level), which I don't think is true.

well...you accused me of being a bigot earlier...soo.....I will defend myself against that.

I think SG does spread hateful speech. I believe I've said that at least a billion times in this thread.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

 

[say what]

And what do we do with people that "teach hate"? Can someone please answer to this question?

I don't understand this.

Are you making a difference between people who hate, and people who teach hate?

And I don't believe it's our place to do anything to them. They can hate if they want too- I just don't agree with it.