What is Elon Musks temperament?

[Ren]

That’s my own experience too. It’s easier to see it when I’m writing - I may have this large clear insight that is well developed. But it’s a ‘solid object’ presented to me in 3D not in a linear form. I usually need to have several trial goes at it to make it linear and verbal - it might take me hours or days with one of the big ones. A good analogy is to imagine I’m standing on a mountain overlooking a wide inspiring landscape full of features - hills, valleys, towns, isolated farms, lakes, rivers, sheep, a flock of geese, a hawk, a badger disappearing behind a wall. It’s a lovely sunny day, there’s a strong breeze, and small clouds are moving quickly over the sky. The moon is still out but setting behind a hill. I’m feeling curious, exhilarated, a bit worried that the forecast is poor for later in the day, a little out of breath from the climb, and I’m feeling at one with everything as though I’m embedded in it all myself - etc, etc. I have all these impressions and many many more in an instant’s perception and I don’t put them into these words for myself. But now I’m on the phone describing it to someone who’s never been there, and is only partially sighted, and is not so romantically attached to wild places as I am. I’m not sure where to start, how to structure my impressions, what sort of language to use, what can be taken for granted and what can’t. I don’t consider these things for myself - I don’t need to. So the first time I do consider them is when I’m stuttering in front of someone, trying to translate on the fly, and not doing very well at it.

Great analogy

I may have this large clear insight that is well developed. But it’s a ‘solid object’ presented to me in 3D not in a linear form. I usually need to have several trial goes at it to make it linear and verbal - it might take me hours or days with one of the big ones.

Man, I relate to this so much. My insights tend to emerge in this strange "solid object" form that is multi-dimensional and difficult to translate into words.

 

[wolly.green]

It's interesting that you're seeing things that way. I'm seeing them from a very different perspective. His stuttering and struggling to find words when speaking in the abstract seems to me typical of an Ni user. As an introverted intuitive you need to translate content that is by nature very difficult to convey to a non-Ni audience. It also happens to me very often when I find myself in these situations (at my own modest level, of course).

He has that thing where he hesitates and stutters a bit, and then suddenly unpacks a lot of dense information in a few seconds. That is very familiar to me as an Ni-dom. Even the sort of weird nodding he does sometimes once he has expressed what he wanted to express hits home for me.

And if anything, he probably stutters more because his brain goes too fast for him to easily vocalize what he's thinking.

I mean sure. Ni ideas might be hard to unpack. But Elon never says anything NF that is particularly complicated! I mean seriously, whats so complicated about saying Its not as though I have the absence of fear. There are times when something is important enough, you believe in it enough that you do it in spite of fear. People shouldn't think I feel fear about this and therefore I shouldn't do it. Something is mentally wrong with you if you don't feel fear. Thats not a complex Ni idea. That's really simple, and extremely obvious. Yet he mumbles all the way through.

This is not an isolated instance either. Elon consistently struggles when talking in the abstract. But he almost never does when communicating the ST literal facts. In fact, I dear you to find an instance where he has not struggled to make a simple N point? Hell, he even struggles when talking about AI. And his ideas about AI are extraordinarily simple. Nothing complex about them at all. So, given that Elon is not stupid by any measure. How is it that he can struggle to explain simple N ideas? I think the answer is because hes not an intuitive.

Compare his N ideas to yours. Are they as sophisticated as yours? Hell no.

Do you have an alternative explanation?

 

[John K]

@wolly.green , @Ren - reply to Wolly's last post - finger trouble on iphone in quoting ...

This may be through poorly developed secondary extraversion skills of course. It strikes me that he expresses his ideas more in his company’s projects and products than in his words. But that’s devil’s advocate stuff. The guy seems to me to be wearing a tycoon superhero suit, including all the child-like comic book behaviour that goes with it, at least in public. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if underneath that thick layer of his you are right.

 

[wolly.green]

@wolly.green , @Ren - reply to Wolly's last post - finger trouble on iphone in quoting ...

This may be through poorly developed secondary extraversion skills of course. It strikes me that he expresses his ideas more in his company’s projects and products than in his words. But that’s devil’s advocate stuff. The guy seems to me to be wearing a tycoon superhero suit, including all the child-like comic book behaviour that goes with it, at least in public. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if underneath that thick layer of his you are right.

Consider Tulsi Gabbard. In the following video, she talks almost exclusively about her values. But shes talking about them in the abstract. There's hardly ever any literal facts: dates, times, places, names, actions and so on. Quite unlike when Elon speaks. Further, she communicates her N ideas very smoothly and with great ease.

Its possible that Elon expresses his intuition in his work. But that hardly means he is an intuitive. All that guarantees is that he has it somewhere in his function stack.

 

[infinite dreams]

Whoops, turns out Elon is about to get his ass kicked by the SEC after all.

 

[charlatan]

I'm not too familiar with Elon, besides that he warned about AI, but basically, I think what is often gong on is that people are using different levels of talking about 'theory' vs 'practical.'

At an extreme, practical means your local hardnosed businessman, who isn't particularly visionary and just wants to keep the shelves stocked and provide a reliable service.
At the other extreme, we have philosophy (by which I mean the particularly abstract varieties like metaphysics).

I find a lot of scientifically minded folk end up being classified as Ns because any level more abstract than the first of these two, strictly speaking, gets put in the theory category. And it's also worth noting that S in the test is associated with being very expressly practical, and correlates with lower openness to experience in the Big 5.

I think it's useful enough to conceptualize S/N differently from the strict interpretation of the test, where we actually take seriously the idea of S types that are high in openness to experience, and even quite intellectual, but express that through an interest in the more concrete, as opposed to, say, mystics and particularly abstractly minded philosophers.
When I discuss functions theory, in particular, I use such a conceptualization.

 

[Wyote]

I think it's useful enough to conceptualize S/N differently from the strict interpretation of the test, where we actually take seriously the idea of S types that are high in openness to experience, and even quite intellectual, but express that through an interest in the more concrete, as opposed to, say, mystics and particularly abstractly minded philosophers.
When I discuss functions theory, in particular, I use such a conceptualization.

Definitely agree man

 

[Ren]

as opposed to, say, mystics and particularly abstractly minded philosophers.

 

[Wyote]

 

[Ren]

I mean sure. Ni ideas might be hard to unpack. But Elon never says anything NF that is particularly complicated! I mean seriously, whats so complicated about saying Its not as though I have the absence of fear. There are times when something is important enough, you believe in it enough that you do it in spite of fear. People shouldn't think I feel fear about this and therefore I shouldn't do it. Something is mentally wrong with you if you don't feel fear. Thats not a complex Ni idea. That's really simple, and extremely obvious. Yet he mumbles all the way through.

This is not an isolated instance either. Elon consistently struggles when talking in the abstract. But he almost never does when communicating the ST literal facts. In fact, I dear you to find an instance where he has not struggled to make a simple N point? Hell, he even struggles when talking about AI. And his ideas about AI are extraordinarily simple. Nothing complex about them at all. So, given that Elon is not stupid by any measure. How is it that he can struggle to explain simple N ideas? I think the answer is because hes not an intuitive.

Compare his N ideas to yours. Are they as sophisticated as yours? Hell no.

Do you have an alternative explanation?

I think I see your point: You're saying that whatever his "supposed Ni" struggles to unpack is too disarmingly simple to be a credible N insight, but is more likely to be the product an S at work struggling to express an N insight.

I think there would be many answers to that, but the best answer (in my opinion) is to suggest that it's not the content of what you think that makes you an N or S, but how you think, how you perceive the world. To me, it's clear that Elon thinks first: "What do I want the future to be like?" and then proceeds from there, from this distant point in the background that he wants to achieve. His different businesses are only really means to achieve that vision of the future he wants, which is what truly excites him in life. He says so in the Joe Rogan interview, too. Without that, I don't think he'd be motivated to do what he does.

His being future-focused is not just a trait of his, it's the very essence of his perception of the world. And that's very NiTe, regardless of whether you're bored or not by the way that he expresses his ideas in relation to that fundamental perception and how he wants to express it by Te means.

 

[wolly.green]

I think I see your point: You're saying that whatever his "supposed Ni" struggles to unpack is too disarmingly simple to be a credible N insight, but is more likely to be the product an S at work struggling to express an N insight.

I think there would be many answers to that, but the best answer (in my opinion) is to suggest that it's not the content of what you think that makes you an N or S, but how you think, how you perceive the world. To me, it's clear that Elon thinks first: "What do I want the future to be like?" and then proceeds from there, from this distant point in the background that he wants to achieve. His different businesses are only really means to achieve that vision of the future he wants, which is what truly excites him in life. He says so in the Joe Rogan interview, too. Without that, I don't think he'd be motivated to do what he does.

His being future-focused is not just a trait of his, it's the very essence of his perception of the world. And that's very NiTe, regardless of whether you're bored or not by the way that he expresses his ideas in relation to that fundamental perception and how he wants to express it by Te means.

This explanation of his mumbling can only work if Se really is a communication function. But Se is an observer! How does one communicate with an observer?

Also, he talks about his vision alot. Yet again, he mumbles all the way through. But never when he sticks with the ST literal facts of what he has actually done.

 

[Ren]

This explanation of his mumbling can only work if Se really is a communication function. But Se is an observer! How does one communicate with an observer?

Also, he talks about his vision alot. Yet again, he mumbles all the way through. But never when he sticks with the ST literal facts of what he has actually done.

I think you might be too focused on his "mumbling". Personally, it has never shocked me that much. And I do enjoy it when he talks about N style stuff. Perhaps what is unexciting and unoriginal to you might not be the same way for somebody else?

 

[wolly.green]

I think you might be too focused on his "mumbling". Personally, it has never shocked me that much. And I do enjoy it when he talks about N style stuff. Perhaps what is unexciting and unoriginal to you might not be the same way for somebody else?

Why would you not focus on the mumbling? Thats a good indication of what you are finding difficult to process. Consider the NF woman I posted above. No mumbling or struggling over NF. Or even consider me. I absolutely struggle with ST literal facts. I have to slow down and think to pull them out. But NT? Sure, but its not as bad. The reason is that I don't think in terms of facts. So its way harder to remember them.

Elon has Intuition in his function stack. He is also highly accomplished. So it makes sense that its incredibly well developed. Much more developed than your average person. But you still have the problem: why does he struggle in almost every video with N ideas, but not ST facts. The pattern is there and it is consistent. Surely to type a person, you aught to look at their consistent patterns and not anecdotes or stereotypes?

 

[Ren]

Why would you not focus on the mumbling? Thats a good indication of what you are finding difficult to process. Consider the NF woman I posted above. No mumbling or struggling over NF. Or even consider me. I absolutely struggle with ST literal facts. I have to slow down and think to pull them out. But NT? Sure, but its not as bad. The reason is that I don't think in terms of facts. So its way harder to remember them.

Elon has Intuition in his function stack. He is also highly accomplished. So it makes sense that its incredibly well developed. Much more developed than your average person. But you still have the problem: why does he struggle in almost every video with N ideas, but not ST facts. The pattern is there and it is consistent. Surely to type a person, you aught to look at their consistent patterns and not anecdotes or stereotypes?

I feel like we are repeating ourselves at this point. I respect your opinion, though it does not convince me. We will agree to disagree.

 

[wolly.green]

I feel like we are repeating ourselves at this point. I respect your opinion, though it does not convince me. We will agree to disagree.

Yeah sure. Im not convinced by your line of reasoning either.

 

[wolly.green]

Whoops, turns out Elon is about to get his ass kicked by the SEC after all.

Lol. Why is Elon Musk getting so much attention anyway? Did he do something to piss of those asshats on Wallstreet? Or is it because hes in the sustainable energies business?

 

[noisebloom]

My two cents:

I have known many ISTPs and ISTJs personally throughout my life, and a handful of INTJs.

Plenty of Intuitives (such as myself, honestly) prefer to speak in concrete/physical terms to people they don't know well, because we live in a world of Sensors. We very much would prefer to be understood and have the ideas we convey be received positively (especially if you're a public figure, such as a CEO). To clarify my viewpoint, I don't really think speaking in terms of facts as the OP suggests is necessarily Sensor-ific, but exemplary of strong Te types. Even though Ni-Te (in the INTJ example) cares about absorbing the data to fulfill their vision (Te serving Ni), these individuals are just as capable as conveying the data they've observed in concrete terms, even though it's merely a means to an end for them (less reverence for the data itself than for Sensors, I think).

I also don't subscribe to the view that "because X is in Y profession, X is a [insert type here]", because despite the predominance of certain types in certain careers, you're always going to have enough outliers to make exception to that argument.

For the sake of example, I think ISTJs are perfectly capable of innovation (I've witnessed it myself), but it's through the lens of Si... An ISTJ can't help but cling to the reliability of tradition when forging a path forward, and I don't really get this sense from Elon Musk, and it seems as if his head is almost in the future too much. With ISTPs, it's about the reliability of the physical world around them. The strength of Sensing types is their ability to detach themselves from their ideas, and Elon Musk seems incapable of doing this.

From his physical behaviors in interviews: he doesn't quite have the confident energy of the ENTJs I've known. He's confident in a less overbearing manner (luv u @Pin). His disingenuous laugh is very non-INTPish... we have a genuine, childlike quality to our emotions, and INTJs sometimes tend to laugh because they're supposed to (Te?)... I don't actually understand it, but it's fucking weird. I also don't think he'd say half the shit he says if he was a strong Fe type.

he's a fucking weirdo and i'm tired now

 

[wolly.green]

My two cents:

I have known many ISTPs and ISTJs personally throughout my life, and a handful of INTJs.

Plenty of Intuitives (such as myself, honestly) prefer to speak in concrete/physical terms to people they don't know well, because we live in a world of Sensors. We very much would prefer to be understood and have the ideas we convey be received positively (especially if you're a public figure, such as a CEO). To clarify my viewpoint, I don't really think speaking in terms of facts as the OP suggests is necessarily Sensor-ific, but exemplary of strong Te types. Even though Ni-Te (in the INTJ example) cares about absorbing the data to fulfill their vision (Te serving Ni), these individuals are just as capable as conveying the data they've observed in concrete terms, even though it's merely a means to an end for them (less reverence for the data itself than for Sensors, I think).

I also don't subscribe to the view that "because X is in Y profession, X is a [insert type here]", because despite the predominance of certain types in certain careers, you're always going to have enough outliers to make exception to that argument.

For the sake of example, I think ISTJs are perfectly capable of innovation (I've witnessed it myself), but it's through the lens of Si... An ISTJ can't help but cling to the reliability of tradition when forging a path forward, and I don't really get this sense from Elon Musk, and it seems as if his head is almost in the future too much. With ISTPs, it's about the reliability of the physical world around them. The strength of Sensing types is their ability to detach themselves from their ideas, and Elon Musk seems incapable of doing this.

From his physical behaviors in interviews: he doesn't quite have the confident energy of the ENTJs I've known. He's confident in a less overbearing manner (luv u @Pin). His disingenuous laugh is very non-INTPish... we have a genuine, childlike quality to our emotions, and INTJs sometimes tend to laugh because they're supposed to (Te?)... I don't actually understand it, but it's fucking weird. I also don't think he'd say half the shit he says if he was a strong Fe type.

he's a fucking weirdo and i'm tired now

I disagree with what you said about Te and Si.

First, why would Te be about facts, and not S? S is short for sensory. N is short for intuition. Both are observer functions. One observes sensory reality and one observes abstract reality. T is short for thinking and F is short for feeling. Both are decider functions. T makes decisions based on logic and reason while F makes decisions based on instinctive motivational states. It makes way more sense for S to be about facts than Te since facts belong closer to the realm of sensory reality than logic and reasons.

Second, why should Si care about tradition. If S really is about facts and I really is about introversion, then it follows that Si is more about internal/known facts than about tradition. There is no reason to think that Si users will not want to explore the world to gather more 'known facts'

 

[Asa]

I had to share my INTJ friend's response when I asked him. It is so funny.
I didn't bother asking my INTJ SO because the question would just annoy him.

 

[Ren]

My two cents:

I have known many ISTPs and ISTJs personally throughout my life, and a handful of INTJs.

Plenty of Intuitives (such as myself, honestly) prefer to speak in concrete/physical terms to people they don't know well, because we live in a world of Sensors. We very much would prefer to be understood and have the ideas we convey be received positively (especially if you're a public figure, such as a CEO). To clarify my viewpoint, I don't really think speaking in terms of facts as the OP suggests is necessarily Sensor-ific, but exemplary of strong Te types. Even though Ni-Te (in the INTJ example) cares about absorbing the data to fulfill their vision (Te serving Ni), these individuals are just as capable as conveying the data they've observed in concrete terms, even though it's merely a means to an end for them (less reverence for the data itself than for Sensors, I think).

I also don't subscribe to the view that "because X is in Y profession, X is a [insert type here]", because despite the predominance of certain types in certain careers, you're always going to have enough outliers to make exception to that argument.

For the sake of example, I think ISTJs are perfectly capable of innovation (I've witnessed it myself), but it's through the lens of Si... An ISTJ can't help but cling to the reliability of tradition when forging a path forward, and I don't really get this sense from Elon Musk, and it seems as if his head is almost in the future too much. With ISTPs, it's about the reliability of the physical world around them. The strength of Sensing types is their ability to detach themselves from their ideas, and Elon Musk seems incapable of doing this.

From his physical behaviors in interviews: he doesn't quite have the confident energy of the ENTJs I've known. He's confident in a less overbearing manner (luv u @Pin). His disingenuous laugh is very non-INTPish... we have a genuine, childlike quality to our emotions, and INTJs sometimes tend to laugh because they're supposed to (Te?)... I don't actually understand it, but it's fucking weird. I also don't think he'd say half the shit he says if he was a strong Fe type.

he's a fucking weirdo and i'm tired now

Great post, noise. You articulated the Te / Si stuff that I wanted to but somehow couldn't articulate.

I had to share my INTJ friend's response when I asked him. It is so funny.
I didn't bother asking my INTJ SO because the question would just annoy him.
View attachment 44936

lmao