Why do INFJs and INTPs hate each other so much?

[OldWornSoul]

I personally think INTPs and INFJs get along very well. They both have something meticulous in their nature, they both have a playful and mischievous Fe side, and I think that they can understand one another far better than let's say an INFP and an INTP.

INTPS are those kids that dump the whole lego box talk for hours about cool ideas and building stuff, than run off cause they got bored. Than the INFJ builds awesome lego stuff by taking the ideas & theories and oh i don't know DOING something with it.

than the INFJ has to clean up all the mess. while the INTP just skips about the rest of the day.

AKA they are the
covert narcs.

LOL I love that analogy. I am an INFJ Female married to an INTP Male. He can have a bright idea and partially work on it and then leave all the tools, mess, beer cans, etc.... He will get bored or need to go research the project some more. What do I find 80% of the time a half-done project and a mess to clean up. LOL Most projects are started and completed by me around here. For the home improvements I need to be done, in the house, I am bringing my ISTP brother and INTJ Sister-In-Law in to get my INTP husband moving and learning the project as the others teach him and me. After seven years I know this well about my INTP husband. His own mother said he was not a Handy Handy Man.

 

[ZcM4xzkjgzCjytBc]

LOL I love that analogy. I am an INFJ Female married to an INTP Male. He can have a bright idea and partially work on it and then leave all the tools, mess, beer cans, etc.... He will get bored or need to go research the project some more. What do I find 80% of the time a half-done project and a mess to clean up. LOL Most projects are started and completed by me around here. For the home improvements I need to be done, in the house, I am bringing my ISTP brother and INTJ Sister-In-Law in to get my INTP husband moving and learning the project as the others teach him and me. After seven years I know this well about my INTP husband. His own mother said he was not a Handy Handy Man.

Tell us more about your INFJ/INTP marriage!

 

[Littlelissa]

I've got two INFP friends. One of them I've know for about 20 years, and we've gone on numerous holidays together etc. She absolutely drives me nuts. On one trip where I'd gone to stay with her in Greece, we had an argument and I opted to stay with someone else I'd just met, instead of with her. However we still hung out and had a good time, on the trip.
It's an unusual friendship. She can be quite dogged, and has had me in tears for example telling me my religion is bad etc. etc. or rough shooting over other things that are important to me. I wouldn't normally accept behaviour like this from someone, but for some reason I do from her. We were at college together and I feel she knows and understands a part of me that few others can. I also understand her faults are not really meant.

Both my INTP friends can be very kind and considerate, and can in the majority of cases be relied on to be there, or for support.

Having said that INTP 1, I recently stayed with her on a trip and one night she was going out and I was exhausted so I opted to stay in. She phoned on her way home, at 11 pm just as I'd fallen asleep, to check I was still awake so we could chat when she got in. When I mentioned that I'd just fallen asleep, she said "ahh, it's not late", arrrrgggghhhhh!!. Needless to say when she got back I did get up and was awake till 1 am. So, so much for an early night.

No. 2 INFP can be somewhat in a dream, and therefore a bad listener at times, but we both like nature and dogs and go for walks a lot together. Were always stopping to pet other people's dogs, lol, and although were fairly different it's a good friendship, because we understand the important things about each other.

I have found that the good thing with INFP's is that even if your points of view are quite different on things, it is possible to discuss things, and INTP's will try and hear what your saying, in my experience at least.

 

[Ginny]

Yes! I forgot to mention that. They both are keenly aware of light vs dark, the duality within all living things. And in my experience, they both aren't afraid of their dark. Both types can be very very very dark and would only show that side to someone who could grasp it.

Hi, just read through the whole thread. How exactly do you mean that, about the INFJ's dark side and showing it? Is it different from the outward "coldness" others perceive?

 

[Doivid]

I don't know, I've never really had an issue with INTPs. Some of my favorite people have been INTPs, and I find them incredibly easy to talk to and be around.

I'd say if either one is unhealthy it can obviously cause issues. INFJs who feel less secure will not enjoy the feeling of not really being able to read INTPs (I found it weird at first, but it's peaceful now that I'm used to it).

INTJs and INFPs are the ones I notice more friction with, which I blame on the fi-fe disconnect for the most part!

 

[Ginny]

I don't know, I've never really had an issue with INTPs. Some of my favorite people have been INTPs, and I find them incredibly easy to talk to and be around.

I'd say if either one is unhealthy it can obviously cause issues. INFJs who feel less secure will not enjoy the feeling of not really being able to read INTPs (I found it weird at first, but it's peaceful now that I'm used to it).

INTJs and INFPs are the ones I notice more friction with, which I blame on the fi-fe disconnect for the most part!

I'd actually find it intriguing not to be able to read someone, because I am a curious person by nature and I like riddles.

 

[highlighter]

I just want to second the idea that INFJ will have a rough time reading the INTP this is double edge thing. on the one hand it is awesome to NOT be absorbing emotions form someone and not be able to predict what they will say and do. on the flip side this is the bread and butter of what an INFJ lives on and thus its super annoying too. especially when the INTP starts playing games with you, they will fuck up your Ni and make you think your going nuts. INTps are very childlike, and they like/think picking on you NON stop is fun and a way of showing care. thinking of little kids fighting all day...thats them.
as an adult this is hard to deal with. after awhile you will figure out that you can read an INTP, and the biggest shock in the world is when you are there reading nothing from the intp and than one day you understand that you are READING them....your reading nothing cause there is nothing there. the problem is that INFJ ALWAYS thinks there is something more behind it all something more there and in this case there is not.

 

[infinite dreams]

I just want to second the idea that INFJ will have a rough time reading the INTP this is double edge thing. on the one hand it is awesome to NOT be absorbing emotions form someone and not be able to predict what they will say and do. on the flip side this is the bread and butter of what an INFJ lives on and thus its super annoying too. especially when the INTP starts playing games with you, they will fuck up your Ni and make you think your going nuts. INTps are very childlike, and they like/think picking on you NON stop is fun and a way of showing care. thinking of little kids fighting all day...thats them.
as an adult this is hard to deal with. after awhile you will figure out that you can read an INTP, and the biggest shock in the world is when you are there reading nothing from the intp and than one day you understand that you are READING them....your reading nothing cause there is nothing there. the problem is that INFJ ALWAYS thinks there is something more behind it all something more there and in this case there is not.

(one INTP's take, ymmv)

Personally I find the idea of playing games with other people's processes to be very distasteful. I can't imagine consciously or unconsciously attempting to make my interactions with other people that complicated. Sounds like a lot of work for no appreciable value (I would also feel terrible if doing so hurt the other person's feelings).

Your point about the INFJ's attempts to read the INTP is closer to the mark for me. INFJs tend to search for the meaning behind every word and action, and I believe you're correct in saying that for INTPs there frequently is no underlying or ulterior meaning to what we do and say. While Ne keeps our perspectives broad and varied, our communications with others tend to be direct and fact-based to more efficiently fuel the Ti engine. We like to tinker and refine ideas but our information gathering process for doing so (at least in verbal/written form) is fairly straightforward.

 

[highlighter]

And that makes an INTP dangerous

 

[Happy Phantom]

I just want to second the idea that INFJ will have a rough time reading the INTP this is double edge thing. on the one hand it is awesome to NOT be absorbing emotions form someone and not be able to predict what they will say and do. on the flip side this is the bread and butter of what an INFJ lives on and thus its super annoying too. especially when the INTP starts playing games with you, they will fuck up your Ni and make you think your going nuts.

Interesting as this has been my experience with INTJ's.

INTps are very childlike, and they like/think picking on you NON stop is fun and a way of showing care. thinking of little kids fighting all day...thats them.

Any "type" can be childlike and pick on others as well as be an overall dickead assholio. Again, I've not had this experience at all with any INTP. Sounds like you've tangled with a bad one? And if so, are you absolutely certain this person is an INTP? This information is vitally important! #notreally

as an adult this is hard to deal with. after awhile you will figure out that you can read an INTP, and the biggest shock in the world is when you are they reading nothing from the intp and than one day you understand that you are READING them....your reading nothing cause there is nothing there. the problem is that INFJ ALWAYS thinks there is something more behind it all something more there and in this case there is not.

I think I get what you're trying to say here despite some grammar errors. 99.9 percent of the time I can read people and I'm usually not wrong in my assessment of people assuming they're on my radar. Sometimes it's difficult communicating these "assessments" but I will make an attempt, and thankfully my INTP is very receptive and wants to understand, so we discuss until things are sorted out. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
#negan

 

[t56hg2bv]

INFJs arguing is like a swarm of metaphorical killer martyr bees who kamikaze ad hominem logic error the enemy, by banning the user. They avoid the argument, maybe they can't fully grasp logical structure, they form a unit of attacking the persons character posing the argument (such as immaturity), they then make the person giving the argument get banned. Due to their hive mind mentality. All the while, the argument has not even been considered, because it hurts their feelings. Seriously INFJs. Do you all argue this way? I know that there is a great possibility of me getting banned, and you completely proving my point. And you will not even notice, that you proved my point, because you are incapable of logical analysis.

I find this interesting. You see INFJ's as metaphorical killer martyr bees and kamikaze like. Then you go on to attack all of said INFJs (imature, lack logical structure, call them sadistic) in their hive (INFJs.com) expecting what? You then give the answer - "ban me."

Now, I can say without hesitation that out in the world INFJ's are alone 99% of the time. To suggest we are "hive like" or congregate is a fantasy and gross over estimate. Many congregate on this website because - in fact - we don't see many and want to be understood. Because we are different we are often attacked by the hive mentality of all the extroverted, sensory, people of the world. So for you to frame this representation as such seem quite ironic.

Now, if I'm being too cryptic, then let me simplify it. This is not a hive of martyrdom. It is a safe haven for acceptance and understanding. For you to take such an aggressive stance is threatening to many that are here. That you characterize so many here negatively, then almost dare them to ban you seems masochistic at best.

 

[Ryso89]

Odd, one of my best girlfriends is INTP and we get along just fine.

 

[MrSquared]

I approve of INTPs. I do not hate them or dislike them in the least. Everyone has their own unique skill and natural ability after all. We're all so very different.

 

[Asa]

INFJs / INTPs relationships are the 'Golden Pair'. There is quite a bit written about how well we get along. Here is an OK article on the topic that I am choosing because it talks about functions to some degree and it touches upon some of the points people have made in this thread about why we don't get along:

https://boysosa.com/2016/10/25/blog-post-title-5/

Here is the article:
I think any INFJ or INTP who has been in a mature relationship with the other will agree it’s a great pairing. We make up for each other’s weaknesses in ways that are smooth and inspiring. We encourage each other’s strengths in ways that are fun and engaging. These are not the easiest relationships to get off the ground, hence the emphasis on maturity and experience. But seasoned INFJs and INTPs (or ENTPs) will have a blast together.

I dated a fe INFJs. Jennifer, my last INFJ partner moved once she got a job in the bay area. It was a short lived relationship, roughly 6 months. Her and I are still good friends and I’m very fond of her. I’ve been in a longer relationship with another INFJ, and that one in particular, is still my favorite relationship I’ve ever had, by a good margin. Two of my closest friends are INFJs and the friendships have very similar dynamics to the romances. Just like I constantly crush on INFJs (and NJs in general), INFJs often find themselves crushing on INTPs (and NPs in general). It’s a natural attraction.

For those people who only know MBTI as the four letters, I’m going to get my hands a little more dirty in this post and talk about functions. We all have 8 but we have 4 primary functions that drive most of our behavior so I’ll focus on those. Think of these functions as weapons we use to conquer our day to day. We learn our primary function early and are pretty proficient with it by the end of childhood. We pick up the second one as children and start honing that. Late teens our tertiary function starts getting some air time and we learn our way around our inferior function in our 20s (hopefully). If we are lucky, by the time we are 30, we at least know how to swing our fourth function and hit something. Sadly, some people never get use to their third and fourth functions and this causes problems. We don’t always get to pick what function we use in a situation. It’s just put in our hands and then we are shoved into battle. If you are a 35 year old INFJ with some shitty extroverted sensing (Se), you’re probably doomed to relationship drama for the rest of your life. Seriously, growth and development are about those later functions and it’s one of the primary reasons INFJ and INTP do so well together.

Our functional stacks are very complimentary. If one person is psychic about things and people (INFJ Introverted Intuition or Ni) and the other is psychic about systems (INTP Extroverted Intuition or Ne), basically, together we are psychic about…like EVERYTHING. Our Intuition functions play very well together because of this. Attraction occurs often with NJs and NPs because of the Ni-Ne interaction. It’s like two people illuminating two sides of the same object. INFJs and INTPs in particular, are really into people and their authenticity so we tend to appreciate this wholeness more than other types (this is a consequence of shared Fe).

We both share extraverted feeling (Fe) but INFJ is much more adept at it then INTP. INTP’s Fe is childlike since we picked it up last. This means these relationships get super playful when INTP opens up their Fe. They are also super deep because the opposite is happening with Introverted Thinking (Ti) . Expect conversations to happen on your couch or in your bed that are worthy of being dictated into a book.

As long as our weaknesses are kept in check things are pretty dope.

For INFJ:

Se can cause a lot of problems in less developed INFJ’s. Their perfectionism and idealism can blind them to what’s good for them or cause them to focus on the ideals of a situation that is very obviously bad for them. An INFJ who hasn’t learned to shift their ideals with new philosophies and information can have a pretty shitty time

Underdeveloped INFJ: I grew up thinking I should date a 6ft tall doctor with 6 pack abs – so I’m going to stay in this shitty relationship with a 6ft tall doctor with 6 pack abs. It’s my ideal!

Ideals will always drive an INFJ. It’s who they are and it makes a lot of things about them great (especially for an aloof INTP). But like is true for fire, you can cook with it or you can burn your house down. INTP’s are great at keeping these ideals from blinding the INFJ. We introduce new info in a way that makes shifting these ideals fulfilling . This is because our strong Ti bolsters INFJ’s milder Ti, but unlike with other matches, the way it happens is engaging. Why? Because an Ti-Ne and Ni-Ti interaction is like a mad tea party with Yoda, Rumi, Einstein and Mozart, except it’s not tea in the cups it’s fucking whiskey. Hell yes. INFJs now using fire to make herself a juicy ribeye…medium rare…not to burn down the new satin curtains in the living room.

For INTP:

Fe can cause a lot of problems for underdeveloped INTP’s. We’re fucking retarded when our Fe comes to the front of our decision making. I mean seriously, we are RETARDED. Or we’re just retarded in general with not using Fe at all.

“wait what? I shouldn’t have told that guy his ideas were dumb and would never work?”…. “But it’s the truth. I just saved him a bunch of time! He can go work on something useful now. He should be thanking me! Why does the world think I’m an asshole?!?”

Again, enter Yoda, Rumi, and this time Starlord for an engaging tea party…this time with tequila. Here, INFJ’s excellent Fe helps develop our own and it happens in a way that makes sense for us. It happens in a way that makes us feel good. It happens in a way that makes us excited to go try out our new Fe skills.

“Hi guy with dumb ideas. You want to develop a machine that does what? wow, that’s super cool. You are so creative. You should write a science FICTION novel about that. I bet it would be super exciting!! I would read it!”

*INTP walks away feeling awesome…“Hell yes. I Fe’d the shit outta that.”

This mutual weakness bolstering works because personal growth is one of the biggest values for an INFJ and an INTP. The bolstering creates a feed-forward cycle and it’s irresistible to not feel giddy about it once it does get rolling.

INFJ’s love learning from people and growing their intuitive and intellectual arsenal, but they particularly like sharing this experience with others and they get very happy when they get to display what they’ve learned to someone(Ni-Ti promotes the learning and Fe-Se promotes the sharing). INTP’s are perfect matches for this. We love to teach and we love to learn by watching other people, not by being taught by other people. So when an INFJ is hanging on our every word about something we are excited about or after asking us something about whatever they’re trying to master… it’s awesome. When INFJ comes up to us and is like “dude, I just learned the shit out of this. check it out!” We actually WANT to check it out and it’s fun. We also love to learn and grow. INTP are curious as fuck and probably get fulfillment from learning for different reasons but as a pair this deep need gets met for both partners. INTPs are less likely to want to share this experience with others but it’s impossible not to fall into the fold with an INFJ because of those awesome tea parties. The learning and growth I went through when I dated my ex-INFJ was one of the best experiences I’ve had. I remember when we were breaking up we were sitting on a ledge of one of the buildings we worked at on campus.

“This is going to be so hard. I learn so much from you..about everything.”
“You think this isn’t true for me? You are my favorite teacher and my favorite lover in a single person. I’m just as scared as you.”

The thing we were mourning the most was losing our teacher.

Besides the mutual mentorship, we connect on a lot of other things. We communicate in the same language of abstract philosophies and hardline logic. Our Fe’s (once INTP’s get comfortable with theirs) interact playfully, like children. Totally in the moment and giddy and feel-good. INTP’s mischievousness and quirks are exciting to the INFJ. INFJ’s support and encouragement completely fill a gap that’s in desperate need of filling for INTP’s.

On sex: it was the first time I’d understood the hooplah about emotional connections and sex. I mean it made sense in theory but now I really understand. The experience is in another post.

The J and P balance each other. INFJ gets the adventure she always fantasizes about but is too anxious or guilt-ridden or responsible to initiate. INTP will drag her into his adventures, at first maybe reluctantly, but eventually she’ll be laughing her ass off and as time goes on she’ll realize how much she likes the leadership from the INTP in this regard. She NEEDS the push.

INTPs will get held accountable for NOT initiating or working on his fantasies. The INFJ perfectionism gets transferred. INFJs are super hard on themselves, wanting to reach their best potential, in their work, in their development, in their parenting, in EVERYTHING. Ok, So maybe INTP can’t be 6 foot tall but he can have 6 pack abs and INFJ will push him the same way she pushes herself. INTPs NEED this.

If there is an initial attraction, and the INFJ’s Se doesn’t write off the INTP due to some silly ideal and the INTP’s Fe doesn’t make him come off as a complete and utter douchebag…expect sparks. These attractions are hard to shake once they get off the ground. And if they get off the ground and both partners are committed to nurturing the relationship expect fireworks.

 

[Asa]

I really dig my INTP friends and family. My father is an INTP.
Most of my friendships with INTPs are easy, we trust each other's judgment and points of view, we discuss intellectual topics, and share a sense of humor, an appreciation for literature, music, etc.

Where it has gone wrong:
From my experience: If we share the same goals INTPs can be ruthless if they think you're a threat, or if you beat them to a goal.
I've had this happen twice with INTPs I was extremely close to, and I had no clue I was in competition with them either time. What both men had in common was that they were both brilliant and talented, and accustomed to being at the top of their game, and both were INTPs.

One of these instances was with my father. I beat him to a life goal we shared and all the support and encouragement he'd given me for a lifetime disappeared and he obtained "amnesia" about that part of my life. He appears to have zero recollection of that talent, goal, or success in my life. It hurt me for a long time, but now I don't care. I focus my attention and support on those who return it. My niece shares the same talent and he is repeating the pattern with her.
The second was a close friend who tried to sabotage me. There seems to be an issue with us sharing the same talent. Another INTP witness explained that it was a "very INTP thing to do".

INFJ perspective on competition: I have supportive friendships with other artists who started out far below me and are now much more successful than I. It is a joy to watch them thrive and succeed. They do not forget me, and they are grateful. I don't get why you'd shoot someone down when they begin to soar. I know people do it all the time, but fuck those people.

I've had zero issues with any other INTPs. We get along well and have fun friendships.

 

[Happy Phantom]

INFJs arguing is like a swarm of metaphorical killer martyr bees who kamikaze ad hominem logic error the enemy, by banning the user. They avoid the argument, maybe they can't fully grasp logical structure, they form a unit of attacking the persons character posing the argument (such as immaturity), they then make the person giving the argument get banned. Due to their hive mind mentality. All the while, the argument has not even been considered, because it hurts their feelings. Seriously INFJs. Do you all argue this way? I know that there is a great possibility of me getting banned, and you completely proving my point. And you will not even notice, that you proved my point, because you are incapable of logical analysis.

Sadly you're long gone, but I find your sense of humor refreshing. lol

 

[seba]

From my not-so-big experimental sample, I either connect very well to an INFJ or the total opposite (i.e. hate).
I don't know why it's so binary. Would be interesting to know.

 

[Honey]

I have far more problems with INFPs than INTPs. However, I moved out of an apartment building I loved very much because of an INTP and an ENTP living there.

The INTP starting having these frequent displays of anger, abrasiveness and bad temper and the ENTP was a downright sociopath. I nearly ended up in a physical fight with the INTP and I actually backed him up in a corner with the full intention of knocking him out. I think this surprised him very much because I have always been nothing but polite and pleasant up until then despite his numerous provocations.

I think they get the Fe/Ti aspects of INFJs, it is the Ni/Se that usually surprises and confuses them. I do not understand their Si/Ne either and what role it plays for them. I find that despite their reputation for being laid back, many INTPs are actually prone to suddenly express emotions, especially anger, rather inappropriately and irrationally. I really hate that.

 

[seba]

I have far more problems with INFPs than INTPs. However, I moved out of an apartment building I loved very much because of an INTP and an ENTP living there.

The INTP starting having these frequent displays of anger, abrasiveness and bad temper and the ENTP was a downright sociopath. I nearly ended up in a physical fight with the INTP and I actually backed him up in a corner with the full intention of knocking him out. I think this surprised him very much because I have always been nothing but polite and pleasant up until then despite his numerous provocations.

I think they get the Fe/Ti aspects of INFJs, it is the Ni/Se that usually surprises and confuses them. I do not understand their Si/Ne either and what role it plays for them. I find that despite their reputation for being laid back, many INTPs are actually prone to suddenly express emotions, especially anger, rather inappropriately and irrationally. I really hate that.

How does Ni/Se work?

I'm super laid back and patient. I can outburst in a scary fashion, but it's rare (once per several years) and always was IMO with a good reason. hm.
I usually supress feelings of course, but sometimes they overwhelm me (usually anxiety not anger).

 

[Laetitia]

I personally think it is just you. I am an INFJ, and l have a good friend who is an INTP. She and l click well despite having different approaches in solving a problem and making a decision. I believe you and the INTP person can get along better if you accept each other's differences and use strengths to overcome each other's weaknesses.