Why Socialism According to Einstein

Sai said:
im a socialist, and i think all of you should read Marx to understand what socialism really is. You first need to understand core things like historical materialism, alienation, ect
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Hi Sai

I'd be interested to hear your points if you want to expand on these areas

That's what these discussions are: a melting pot of perceptions and information. It's how we expand our knowledge and evolve our perceptions!
 
muir said:
Hi Sai

I'd be interested to hear your points if you want to expand on these areas

That's what these discussions are: a melting pot of perceptions and information. It's how we expand our knowledge and evolve our perceptions!
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well, what concept will you like to know about?
 
You choose :)
 
Sai said:
well, first of all what have you read about left wing politics? Marx, Engels, Bakunin,?
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Bits and pieces

I'd be interested to hear your definition of socialism (in a nut shell!) and how it can be applied in a modern context without being coopted by elites

With the world out protesting it seems like a good time to reevaluate where we are and where we could potentially go. Many people seem to still be clinging desperately to capitalism as if it is reality itself.

I know its a big subject but perhaps you could make your case for a socialist future?
 
well socialism is an economic system wich seeks to create a society without class distinctions, by the means of cooperative ownership of the means of production by the workers. Socialism is the step between capitalism and utopian communism. The idea of a socialist goverment is about investing public resources in new industries controlled by the state/workers.
 
What do you think of the OWS movement and the various other protest movements and what are the dangers of a transition to something new?

For example are you concerned that the entrenched powers that are currently upholding capitalism could coopt any sort of new system?

They're leading questions i know, but they relate a bit to current events and also to Einsteins concerns about an oppressive bueraucracy
 
muir said:
What do you think of the OWS movement and the various other protest movements and what are the dangers of a transition to something new?

For example are you concerned that the entrenched powers that are currently upholding capitalism could coopt any sort of new system?

They're leading questions i know, but they relate a bit to current events and also to Einsteins concerns about an oppressive bueraucracy
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well comrade, first of all to really understand and plan a change we must understand the ways of capitalism, marx in his book The Capital makes a complete analysis about this economicasl systems and the weapons that the Bourgeois use to maintain the status quo. For example in history, we can see the rise of fascism in the 1930's in Europe as a reaction of the desperate higher classes in europe to fight a radical change. In USA i think the Rich are using the same means in fear of a socialist revolution. They are stirring nationalistic feelings, create a mediatic campaing of fear and use an external force as the scapegoat for all the problems. They of course use Religion as a mayor power too. We can learn from history that the church was of crucial importante in the rise of fascism in both Europe and South America. I think that the best you could do is to read The Capital and the communist manifesto by Engels to uderstand the political struggle and the concept of class warfare.
 
Aren't idealistic ideas supposed to be the hardest ones to realize? Why is socialism the idealistic government? Supposedly it tends to fail. Capitalism is more idealistic in my mind.
 
Sai said:
well comrade, first of all to really understand and plan a change we must understand the ways of capitalism, marx in his book The Capital makes a complete analysis about this economicasl systems and the weapons that the Bourgeois use to maintain the status quo. For example in history, we can see the rise of fascism in the 1930's in Europe as a reaction of the desperate higher classes in europe to fight a radical change. In USA i think the Rich are using the same means in fear of a socialist revolution. They are stirring nationalistic feelings, create a mediatic campaing of fear and use an external force as the scapegoat for all the problems. They of course use Religion as a mayor power too. We can learn from history that the church was of crucial importante in the rise of fascism in both Europe and South America. I think that the best you could do is to read The Capital and the communist manifesto by Engels to uderstand the political struggle and the concept of class warfare.
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Yup it seems Iran is next on the chopping block. The corporate media is busy demonising it to turn the public against it in order to 'manufacture the consent' of the voting public for the military industrial complex to go and drop some more hugely expensive bombs on people in the middle east

A 'war on terror' it's called! When all it does is create massive amounts of terror! They are waging war on a method of warfare ('terrorism').....how can that war be won? It can't! It's self defeating as it produces its own opposition

I feel i've got a pretty reasonable grip on class warfare, but what worries me is how movements can be coopted. If we are going to start putting institutions, utilities, resources etc into public ownership then we need to go the whole way and put them into the hands of the workers not into the hands of self serving bureuocrats who have been schooled in elitist establishments where they are taught secret handshakes and a sense of their own superiority

Money is what empowers the ruling class and the economic 'crisis' has really started to switch people on to how the financial system works. With rising awareness comes a good oportunity to take the control of the money supply off private bankers and put it into the hands of the workers. I think the occupy movements around the world are a big indication of increasing awareness and that's hugely encouraging
 
muir said:
Yup it seems Iran is next on the chopping block. The corporate media is busy demonising it to turn the public against it in order to 'manufacture the consent' of the voting public for the military industrial complex to go and drop some more hugely expensive bombs on people in the middle east

A 'war on terror' it's called! When all it does is create massive amounts of terror! They are waging war on a method of warfare ('terrorism').....how can that war be won? It can't! It's self defeating as it produces its own opposition

I feel i've got a pretty reasonable grip on class warfare, but what worries me is how movements can be coopted. If we are going to start putting institutions, utilities, resources etc into public ownership then we need to go the whole way and put them into the hands of the workers not into the hands of self serving bureuocrats who have been schooled in elitist establishments where they are taught secret handshakes and a sense of their own superiority

Money is what empowers the ruling class and the economic 'crisis' has really started to switch people on to how the financial system works. With rising awareness comes a good oportunity to take the control of the money supply off private bankers and put it into the hands of the workers. I think the occupy movements around the world are a big indication of increasing awareness and that's hugely encouraging
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the clue and answer lies in the cooperative. the cooperative is the socialist way to administer ways of production. In Europe and USA they are already some cooperative working and they are doing pretty good. The thing is that the workers have to organize but more importantly, realize the situation and understand that change is needed. but this is the hardest struggle, alienation has made people really dumb. And about Iran and the middle east, it is a really complicated situation.
 
Norton said:
The unequivocal reality is that, regardless of its specific manifestation, socialism is a pejorative for the vast majority of people in the United States. It's unlikely to change notwithstanding the hopelessly naive aspirations of a few. Nevertheless, there is no economic system that will make all people good. It's not the system that is "evil" but, rather, certain people who, unfortunately, are driven to power.
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The funny part about it is that you're quite wrong. The US has several Socialist measures that for some reason aren't viewed as socialist programs once they've been accepted as being mainstream. I'm sure you know of Social Security, Medicare, Medical, Federal College Grants for the underprivileged etc etc...those are all technically socialist programs that're very popular with the American public yet aren't viewed as Socialist programs due to successful conditioning against the notion of any kind of Statism.
 
And remember, Einstein was quite wrong on quantum theory because he was idealistically disposed to the principle that random can't be right. This completely stopped him making progress much like idealistic capitalism or socialism.
 
uberrogo said:
Aren't idealistic ideas supposed to be the hardest ones to realize? Why is socialism the idealistic government? Supposedly it tends to fail. Capitalism is more idealistic in my mind.
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Because Capitalism exists, Socialism doesn't. Capitalism itself is a failure that's been bandaged millions of times over just to keep it afloat. The world has never actually known a truly Socialist society.
 
InvisibleJim said:
And remember, Einstein was quite wrong on quantum theory because he was idealistically disposed to the principle that random can't be right. This completely stopped him making progress much like idealistic capitalism or socialism.
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Einstein did extremely well with what he had at the time.....how about giving the guy some credit?

What has stopped the progress of socialism is not the position on randomness of people on the political left, but rather the actions of a violently oppressive elite

I believe your attempt to link the two represents a logical fallacy

Fortunately it seems that most people are now waking up to the fact that corporate fascism doesn't work for the majority of people
 
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muir said:
Einstein did extremely well with what he had at the time.....how about giving the guy some credit?

What has stopped the progress of socialism is not the position on randomness of people on the political left, but rather the actions of a violently oppressive elite

I believe your attempt to link the two represents a logical fallacy

Fortunately it seems that most people are now waking up to the fact that corporate fascism doesn't work for the majority of people
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Nonsense built upon nonsense predicting gibberish.
 
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