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Corona / Wuhan virus

Utah governor reopens dental offices and surgery centers while unveiling new COVID-19 tracking app

SALT LAKE CITY — Gov. Gary Herbert announced that dental offices can immediately reopen and elective surgeries can resume throughout the state. The change in restrictions came as officials also previewed a new smartphone app, developed to help users know if they come in contact with anyone who has the coronavirus.

Gov. Herbert said the state is making significant headway against the virus as citizens cooperate with healthcare officials. The loosening of health restrictions for dentists and elective surgeons is a small step as part of the state’s phased approach.

More info here: https://www.cachevalleydaily.com/ne...rs-while-unveiling-new-covid-19-tracking-app/

Very cool
 
Farm workers to be exempt from Trump’s immigration ban

An ongoing labor shortage has led to the agriculture industry increasingly relying on the H-2A guest worker program to fill empty jobs on farming operations. In 2019, the Department of Labor certified more than 250,000 H-2A worker visas, a 10 percent increase from the year before. For farmers to hire seasonal workers from other countries, they must prove that the jobs could not be filled by domestic workers.

In recent weeks, the Trump administration has eased requirements for farmers to use the H-2A program as the pandemic has disrupted the labor supply. The federal government waived in-person interviews for workers looking to get hired as embassies have shut down. Farmers can also hire foreign workers currently in the U.S., and the three-year time limit for workers has been temporarily lifted.

More info here: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/21/farm-workers-exempt-trumps-immigration-ban-198039

This is very smart. Majority of these workers are immigrants and our food system will collapse without them.
Yes, very "smart", shut down the borders except for those who can pick our produce - then give them no help federally if/when they get sick.
Totally disposable.
Disgusting.
 
My Mom just texted...my cousin in Utah is very sick with Covid.
 
Yes, very "smart", shut down the borders except for those who can pick our produce - then give them no help federally if/when they get sick.
Totally disposable.
Disgusting.
It's just reality.
 
My Mom just texted...my cousin in Utah is very sick with Covid.
Don't worry she'll survive, statistically, at least. And luckily our hospitals aren't overwhelmed so she will get excellent medical care! If you hear anything otherwise let me know. I'll be glad to check out the ER rooms personally to include pictures to show in fact there is plenty of room and help available! She is in the best possible place to be and has a 95% chance of recovery unless she is 60+ with a compromised immune system then unfortunately less likely. Thoughts and prayers though they are unnecessary for I'm confident she will be fine.
 
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Don't worry she'll survive, statistically, at least. And luckily our hospitals aren't overwhelmed so she will get excellent medical care! If you hear anything otherwise let me know. I'll be glad to check out the ER rooms personally to include pictures to show in fact there is plenty of room and help available! She is in the best possible place to be and has a 95% chance of recovery unless she is 60+ with a compromised immune system then unfortunately less likely. Thoughts and prayers though they are unnecessary for I'm confident she will be fine.
HE will probably be fine , though he’s in his late 40s.
He lives in Spanish Forks.
I am well aware of the statistics and I’m not playing denial games one way or the other thanks.
 

I have an Portuguese video explaining how the Corona is handled into a more rational form.. And another one explaining how the future and measures for 1-2 years (in time for vaccine or at least decent treatment). But it has no subtitles or anything like that so I will do a short resume.
As the guy mentioned in the video, there is a transmission rate (calculated with 7-13 days of delay). Through the lockdown, it is expected to have the transmission below one (in another typology forum, it seems that Germany had arrived at that, there should be other few countries), the virus population (Im talking about the virus itself) starts to rapidly decrease. Since there is a delay, when the deaths achieve a somewhat good re-transmission rate, the case is under control, the infected population gets by to be a minority, and, with several measures, the economy re-opens. When that happens, the cases are kept monitored (and must wisely), and, if the transmission rate gets significantly higher again, the economy shuts down. With some estimates, it has been said that a 2-month window of open with 1-2 months of quarantine (depending on the quarantine and if it is a decent one), combined, can give a good relief to the [inefficient] economy while minimizing the death rate. However, the quarantine that I mentioned before must be a real and tough, not one with people protesting and going out there for the tiniest reasons. The higher the number of people leaving their homes, doing dumb protests, and etc... the higher the transmission rate gets. The better people collaborate, lower the transmission rate. Higher testing means higher control, more accuracy that helps driving proper action. And the sooner the government acts and tests, the sooner people will go out of quarantine, because sooner will be the drop of transmission rate (and the transmission rate will start dropping from lower values). If people start "resisting", not only there will be death, but also when they finally gets the quarantine when things starts to be unfeasible (which happens due to a combo due to health system being full, or, rather, public health system going full and more than half of the population with the virus, people getting sick), this new quarantine will be longer and it can gets stupid longer. The first quarantine relates a lot to speed reaction (and in the US, it seems quite slow); An early reaction means, again, dealing with a transmission rate that it is already low, that will get down faster, and with a very low number of cases; With that, combined with lots of tests, proper control is achieved and quarantine can be quick. In the opposite instance, a very late reaction is dealing with a transmission rate that will be quite high, with already a good number of people already infected, means that for the transmission rate and number of cases to drop it will take a longer time. So, people will be forced into quarantine for months in that scenario, until stability is reached. Even some brazillian economists are already (and US should have some of these probably) agreeing with quarantine. The economy might not support a health collapse, combining with lots of people dying. More deaths equal less costumers, and some areas that re-opens will still have lower sales while keeping their costs, which will turn bad for business in long terms, specially when they have to face either a long quarantine or a deep crisis of deaths and lack of tombs that can gets itself two years. Without counting that, even if there is a vaccine or treatment, that could cost a high amount of money and it can become unfeasible to apply both (with some people literally needing both) for more than a half of the population.

Places where cases are lower should be re-opened sooner than the ones in a worse condition, however, just doing quarantine in some states is relatively inefficient, even cities. In this "globalized" world, in 21th century, one city can hardly survive on its own without trade (unless given time to get ready for that); If a city can survive without any intercity transit - cars, trucks coming for food, petrol, etc.., same for airplanes - then the city can reopens but thats incredible unrealistic in these days. A city that is surrounded and dependable of an uncontrolled scenario will become uncontrolled in a matter of time. Trucks, freights, etc... will come from people from uncontrolled states and carrying cargo from uncontrolled states, and these will, in imminent term, carry the virus with them. Just for an idea, even native people from Amazon (indians), think small traditional villages, with relatively low contact with city folks, already started catching Corona Virus (I suspect it could be Fake News, but it wont be in a matter of few weeks).

The natural "immunity" thing is already been putting at the steak, since things can get serious. Some parents of COVID (sorry for not mentioning sources, I really should but Im already been to long and giving too much time writing this) gets a immunity of 1-2 years. Another problem is the mutation problem, it seems (I think there are studys on that but they are still on early stage) that the virus is already mutating, and the virus genetic is already changing, in a way that the new versions can simply need a new immunity. It is known that some people can get back the virus again, still. In short terms, perhaps only 0.5-1.5% of the population dies (that is 3-6 million for US). However, these numbers are a calculation considering that a person who catch it one time wont catch it again AND that health care system is doing fine. But with the play of mutation, and considering that people can get it again, that rate in long term can increases to 2-3% (2 times in 2 years). With full hospitals, which for some developed countries (such as nordic ones) is not a problem, that rate can get to 3-4%. These deaths must be combined with deaths that already occurs naturally, and you will just find lots of people dying.

Liking or not, the economy and monster market will have to deal with the virus, in one way or another. If it is the optimal way as advised by some experts (at least in Brazil, you should have your own virologists and economists stating something similar), or if it will be handled in an unintelligent way to "save the economy", or, rather, save the short terms profit and save the old inefficient economy system (as I provided why it is inefficient pages ago). Some countries are already giving up neoliberalism, even here it is coming down. It might be a monster that gets back in some years in the future, but any nation that buys it now and let the market handle it is doomed and most countries knows that. If debt disables the state, then in long terms everything will be, eventually, disabled. Unless, of course, if the rich people does charity, and guess what, they havent been doing and they wont likely do it. Then a state will need to arise and confront this, measures will be needed to be taken. The more stubborn the country with recognizing and adapting to the storm, worse will be for the boat.

Just as a reinforcement, this also deals with something that is under-rated but stupidly important thing called "trust". DO you think people are going to trust in each other, government and institutions with generalized death? No, they wont. That might have a deep impact, it can raises corruption in long term, and with that, well, many things will drop. Either a corrupted state or a corrupted market or both fails most of time.

This is the shortest I could explain. I am still being somewhat superficial, and I dont have enough knowledge to be super deep. We are talking about a subject that could take a whole book to be deeply handed.

An absolute tragedy’: COVID-19-related plant shutdowns could force hog farmers to kill and dispose of 200,000 pigs

Mike Patterson’s hog farm near Kenyon typically sends animals to the Smithfield Foods processing plant in Sioux Falls. But he can’t now, after the plant shut down because of a COVID-19 outbreak.

With his usual buyer off the market, Patterson’s cooperative has shipped some pigs to an Illinois plant and found local butchers willing to take a small number of hogs. But thousands others are still at his farm, outgrowing barns and occupying space needed by younger pigs. “It really gets to the point where there’s only so much physical space we can have to house the hogs,” Patterson said.

The predicament is becoming increasingly common across Minnesota, where droves of hog farmers have nowhere left to sell their pigs as plants shutter during the pandemic.

More info here:https://www.minnpost.com/greater-mi...ld-force-hog-farmers-to-put-down-200000-pigs/

This is what I'm talking about when I'm saying there is a real issue with the food supply chain. I listen to local agriculture podcasts in farming states. Just because the news isn't reporting on this doesn't mean it's not happening and that's it's not a legitimate issue.

Pork Producers Face Uncertain Future As Plants Close Around the Country
A trailer with a capacity for about 60 hogs sat empty behind the barns at Woestehoff Family Farms south of Belle Plaine on Tuesday, April 21. Tuesday was the day the operation was set to ship out 172 animals to Smithfield Foods in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, which closed its doors Sunday, April 12, indefinitely, amid concerns with COVID-19.

The plant is responsible for about 4-5% of the country's pork production, according to the company's website.

“The closure of this facility, combined with a growing list of other protein plants that have shuttered across our industry, is pushing our country perilously close to the edge in terms of our meat supply. It is impossible to keep our grocery stores stocked if our plants are not running. These facility closures will also have severe, perhaps disastrous, repercussions for many in the supply chain, first and foremost our nation’s livestock farmers. These farmers have nowhere to send their animals,” Kenneth M. Sullivan, president and chief executive officer for Smithfield said per a release.

More info here: http://www.belleplaineherald.com/co...cle_b118a288-84ae-11ea-b023-7f617d775627.html


It's not clear to me why pork is the first to be affected, but according to reports I'm reading, chicken and beef will also eventually see the same impact.

These just reinforce my point of market being incompetent to do proper allocation.
How the hell they kill pigs if there are mouths to be feed? Send them to Mexico, at worse. But market prefers killing to compensate excess of demand (and there goes the magic demand vs offer where everything fit so perfectly).

My Mom just texted...my cousin in Utah is very sick with Covid.

I hope your cousin get better.
It is already happening for me: Family members have some distant contact who are already dying of Corona.
I went to a building in the beginning of March or in the end of February. Had to get a paper from there. The Concierge/security guard of building front door/gate keeper, which gave me the paper, has died of Corona.
 
@Skarekrow

I acknowledge insensitivity earlier in how I reacted to you mentioning your cousin. I apologise. It is the worst when you project; engage in the same behavior you critique others for, and for that I'm accountable. For that I'm sorry.

I have been contemplating a lot why it is so important for me to come in this thread and argue, when I know this thread is a safe Haven for those who are dealing with a global crisis.


I convinced myself it was about giving an alternative perspective, and while it's true, I do believe there's more of a middle ground to this, it doesn't explain why I behaved the way I did. It's clear that I was not going to change anyone's minds, so posting here had to have some purpose for me.

I think mostly it was because I was upset that my boyfriend wouldn't come see me. If I could convince others of what I perceive of the situation I would be vindicated. I could get my boyfriend to change his mind somehow.

Anyway....

I knew what I was doing was hostile and unproductive. And I really want to acknowledge that.

I still do largely believe the economy needs to be reopened, but I caught myself in the irony of it all.

Why does it matter if internet people agree with me? Don't get me wrong; I fully connect with this community. You aren't just internet people to me which makes what I did doubly cruel.

What I mean is: whether I'm right or wrong, I have no influence or say in what happens. In that sense we are all helpless.

I've come to understand, by talking to the open mic community this past month to make sure we all stay safe and connected, that everyone has a different take. There are as many angles to this as mosquitoes on the planet. And I found myself fighting with those people too; feeling frustrated when others didn't see eye to eye with me.

I needed control. I needed reassurance. I think we all do to a degree. This pandemic is so difficult because our sense of agency has largely been ripped from us. We all handle it differently.

Thank you for those of you who have been patient with me. I understand why you are as passionate as you are even if I don't necessarily agree with all of the angles. I'm working hard to remain objective and not let my own personal demons interfere with how I process this event.

The truth is, though, i know that a part of me is looking for ways to end the quarantine. That doesn't mean that I'm entirely wrong in some of the things I observe; but that emotional need of mine not to be trapped in a scenario that is essentially my own personal hell does create a bias. It does make me explore possibilities that would inhibit what would help me to survive. My mental state is shaky in these circumstances. I know everyone's is.

I'm really going to try to focus on not posting here, and if I do, to be more mindful of my intentions. I think this thread is serving a good purpose, a theraputic way for people to let out thoughts and feelings. I have the right to post my own thoughts and feelings but I should also be respectful of others and not deliberately poach people who are in the same boat as me just trying to sift through information.

Namaste
 

I have an Portuguese video explaining how the Corona is handled into a more rational form.. And another one explaining how the future and measures for 1-2 years (in time for vaccine or at least decent treatment). But it has no subtitles or anything like that so I will do a short resume.
As the guy mentioned in the video, there is a transmission rate (calculated with 7-13 days of delay). Through the lockdown, it is expected to have the transmission below one (in another typology forum, it seems that Germany had arrived at that, there should be other few countries), the virus population (Im talking about the virus itself) starts to rapidly decrease. Since there is a delay, when the deaths achieve a somewhat good re-transmission rate, the case is under control, the infected population gets by to be a minority, and, with several measures, the economy re-opens. When that happens, the cases are kept monitored (and must wisely), and, if the transmission rate gets significantly higher again, the economy shuts down. With some estimates, it has been said that a 2-month window of open with 1-2 months of quarantine (depending on the quarantine and if it is a decent one), combined, can give a good relief to the [inefficient] economy while minimizing the death rate. However, the quarantine that I mentioned before must be a real and tough, not one with people protesting and going out there for the tiniest reasons. The higher the number of people leaving their homes, doing dumb protests, and etc... the higher the transmission rate gets. The better people collaborate, lower the transmission rate. Higher testing means higher control, more accuracy that helps driving proper action. And the sooner the government acts and tests, the sooner people will go out of quarantine, because sooner will be the drop of transmission rate (and the transmission rate will start dropping from lower values). If people start "resisting", not only there will be death, but also when they finally gets the quarantine when things starts to be unfeasible (which happens due to a combo due to health system being full, or, rather, public health system going full and more than half of the population with the virus, people getting sick), this new quarantine will be longer and it can gets stupid longer. The first quarantine relates a lot to speed reaction (and in the US, it seems quite slow); An early reaction means, again, dealing with a transmission rate that it is already low, that will get down faster, and with a very low number of cases; With that, combined with lots of tests, proper control is achieved and quarantine can be quick. In the opposite instance, a very late reaction is dealing with a transmission rate that will be quite high, with already a good number of people already infected, means that for the transmission rate and number of cases to drop it will take a longer time. So, people will be forced into quarantine for months in that scenario, until stability is reached. Even some brazillian economists are already (and US should have some of these probably) agreeing with quarantine. The economy might not support a health collapse, combining with lots of people dying. More deaths equal less costumers, and some areas that re-opens will still have lower sales while keeping their costs, which will turn bad for business in long terms, specially when they have to face either a long quarantine or a deep crisis of deaths and lack of tombs that can gets itself two years. Without counting that, even if there is a vaccine or treatment, that could cost a high amount of money and it can become unfeasible to apply both (with some people literally needing both) for more than a half of the population.

Places where cases are lower should be re-opened sooner than the ones in a worse condition, however, just doing quarantine in some states is relatively inefficient, even cities. In this "globalized" world, in 21th century, one city can hardly survive on its own without trade (unless given time to get ready for that); If a city can survive without any intercity transit - cars, trucks coming for food, petrol, etc.., same for airplanes - then the city can reopens but thats incredible unrealistic in these days. A city that is surrounded and dependable of an uncontrolled scenario will become uncontrolled in a matter of time. Trucks, freights, etc... will come from people from uncontrolled states and carrying cargo from uncontrolled states, and these will, in imminent term, carry the virus with them. Just for an idea, even native people from Amazon (indians), think small traditional villages, with relatively low contact with city folks, already started catching Corona Virus (I suspect it could be Fake News, but it wont be in a matter of few weeks).

The natural "immunity" thing is already been putting at the steak, since things can get serious. Some parents of COVID (sorry for not mentioning sources, I really should but Im already been to long and giving too much time writing this) gets a immunity of 1-2 years. Another problem is the mutation problem, it seems (I think there are studys on that but they are still on early stage) that the virus is already mutating, and the virus genetic is already changing, in a way that the new versions can simply need a new immunity. It is known that some people can get back the virus again, still. In short terms, perhaps only 0.5-1.5% of the population dies (that is 3-6 million for US). However, these numbers are a calculation considering that a person who catch it one time wont catch it again AND that health care system is doing fine. But with the play of mutation, and considering that people can get it again, that rate in long term can increases to 2-3% (2 times in 2 years). With full hospitals, which for some developed countries (such as nordic ones) is not a problem, that rate can get to 3-4%. These deaths must be combined with deaths that already occurs naturally, and you will just find lots of people dying.

Liking or not, the economy and monster market will have to deal with the virus, in one way or another. If it is the optimal way as advised by some experts (at least in Brazil, you should have your own virologists and economists stating something similar), or if it will be handled in an unintelligent way to "save the economy", or, rather, save the short terms profit and save the old inefficient economy system (as I provided why it is inefficient pages ago). Some countries are already giving up neoliberalism, even here it is coming down. It might be a monster that gets back in some years in the future, but any nation that buys it now and let the market handle it is doomed and most countries knows that. If debt disables the state, then in long terms everything will be, eventually, disabled. Unless, of course, if the rich people does charity, and guess what, they havent been doing and they wont likely do it. Then a state will need to arise and confront this, measures will be needed to be taken. The more stubborn the country with recognizing and adapting to the storm, worse will be for the boat.

Just as a reinforcement, this also deals with something that is under-rated but stupidly important thing called "trust". DO you think people are going to trust in each other, government and institutions with generalized death? No, they wont. That might have a deep impact, it can raises corruption in long term, and with that, well, many things will drop. Either a corrupted state or a corrupted market or both fails most of time.

This is the shortest I could explain. I am still being somewhat superficial, and I dont have enough knowledge to be super deep. We are talking about a subject that could take a whole book to be deeply handed.





These just reinforce my point of market being incompetent to do proper allocation.
How the hell they kill pigs if there are mouths to be feed? Send them to Mexico, at worse. But market prefers killing to compensate excess of demand (and there goes the magic demand vs offer where everything fit so perfectly).



I hope your cousin get better.
It is already happening for me: Family members have some distant contact who are already dying of Corona.
I went to a building in the beginning of March or in the end of February. Had to get a paper from there. The Concierge/security guard of building front door/gate keeper, which gave me the paper, has died of Corona.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I know it took a lot time for to compose and I appreciate it.

I think that I largely agree with what you're saying, and that this is one of the most factual, comprehensive posts on this entire thread that I've read.

I particularly enjoy you bringing up the complicating factors:

The fact that the virus may and can mutate

Also based on my research it seems what you're saying, opening the economy up for short periods of time and closing them to flatten the curve is what's most feasible.

And I do agree that caution has to be had. No large gatherings, etc.

Again thanks for the post. Very measured thoughts here and I hope this is what ends up taking place.
 
so now we are told that light and disinfectant can kill the virus. . so let's inject it . . are you fucking serious? this is why we lead the world in corona virus death, we have a complete and total moron "leading" the response. we would be better off with voodoo dolls and a shaman. . what the actual fuck. . I am speechless.