Corona / Wuhan virus

[David54]

 

[David54]

 

[just me]

With the corona virus helping to destroy our nation's economy, giving money to people who are sitting at home drawing unemployment at the pace of an extra $600 a week is emptying our pockets. Oil has bottomed out; I would be buying oil, while it is the cheapest it has been for years, and placing it in my country's reserves...like China is doing. Best way to win an old global war game we used to play was to sell your oil high, flood the market, then buy it cheap. Wait: China has been doing this all along with steel. China is at war with America, and we are losing. At least Trump had the balls to try and do something about it. The way he is giving money away at Capital Hill, it looks like he is helping them.

A governor trying to tell everyone in his state to stay inside would have me protesting. Because they are middle-aged white people with guns, they are called morons and idiots. If China tries to go door to door and take over America, you shall see the militias in a different light.

Lots of people under wallet-straining pressure are making tough decisions, and you just can't make everybody happy. I don't agree with the Governor of Michigan, which called out the guys with guns showing they were not going to be stupid and stay inside their houses. It's turkey season. How many people will catch it while hunting in the woods alone? People are buying kayaks as fast as they are made available. Paddling around by oneself in a kayak is keeping social distancing, and in the fresh air of the outdoors rather than a stale house. Trump cannot make people go back to work. Not everybody is stupid, you see. I'm working in a store with customers, but my mask is false protection. It is supposed to help, though. Gloves? Try and buy them.

Alcohol and germ wash? Sure. Think it's being used where needed much worse.

Wise up, America. Stop rebuilding countries that went to war with us. Take their spoils. The Mongols stacked piles of heads when they conquered to place fear in their enemies' hearts. We may have to man up and take the gloves off. Now they are warning us about buying meat and a shortage coming, while farmers are watching their food rot in the fields. The Senate, Congress, and state and local leaders need to take cuts in their pays until they can earn it. Anyone that makes over 150,000 dollars per household should not get checks, and a small business means something entirely different to me that to the administration.

God turned people against Solomon: people who Solomon had caused to flee their countries and watch their fathers and kings killed. Before we blame everyone else, there is a mote in our own eyes. I feel if we don't change our ways, someone will do it for us. Sorry for the rant: I just don't see many worthy of casting the first stone.

Look at how Nancy Pelosi lives. May I have a chocolate, please?

 

[David54]

 

[slant]

Where is Utah's number? Not including it because it's inconvenient to the argument trying to be made. Less than 100 deaths here total and slowly reopening.

 

[slant]

The anxiety here baffles me. It's very frustrating living in an area where the infection is quite under control to read all of you posting memes about how detrimental opening the country is, and having it all politized to imply only conservatives feel this way .

It's not a very nuanced view.

I get that there are some areas that are not ready to open. But some are. It's very brash to use character attacks and political generalizations to simplify an extremely complex issue.

Not only that but many of you appeal to emotion and good feelings as the only reason for actions that, when broken down in numbers of deaths and other competing factors, are largely detrimental to the whole.

Anytime that I come in here presenting new information, such as the angle Sweden is taking, it seems I get an emotional reaction from people here. I see this a lot from people in the salt lake City area, too. It's creating polarization in our community because half of us want one thing and half of us want something else.

It's really sad how this is devolving, here and in my real life.

 

[JustPhil]

@slant I too am a little concerned about the politicising of it, but more so the media reporting of it.

Anyone who disagrees with the mainstream ideal of what should be happening seems to be ridiculed. It seems that the main stream media have an agenda to push and continue to push it. I don't like people dying as much as anyone else, but why aren't we concerned about deaths from heart disease (US 670K EVERY year) or deaths from cancer (600K EVERY year) - (US Stats only)

The modelling I have read of deaths as a result of COVID -19 is 240K - in it's entirety, and that appears to be the worst case scenario - (US Stats only).

So I wonder why is it so important to report on COVID-19 deaths when no-one appears to be too concerned about the 1.2 MILLION PEOPLE EVERY SINGLE YEAR that die of heart disease and cancer? If the media were so concerned about deaths why not keep reporting cancer and heart disease deaths every day as they are reporting the COVID-19 deaths?

 

[David54]

 

[acd]

@slant I too am a little concerned about the politicising of it, but more so the media reporting of it.

Anyone who disagrees with the mainstream ideal of what should be happening seems to be ridiculed. It seems that the main stream media have an agenda to push and continue to push it. I don't like people dying as much as anyone else, but why aren't we concerned about deaths from heart disease (US 670K EVERY year) or deaths from cancer (600K EVERY year) - (US Stats only)

The modelling I have read of deaths as a result of COVID -19 is 240K - in it's entirety, and that appears to be the worst case scenario - (US Stats only).

So I wonder why is it so important to report on COVID-19 deaths when no-one appears to be too concerned about the 1.2 MILLION PEOPLE EVERY SINGLE YEAR that die of heart disease and cancer? If the media were so concerned about deaths why not keep reporting cancer and heart disease deaths every day as they are reporting the COVID-19 deaths?

Because cancer and heart disease aren't highly contagious novel diseases with no cure or standard treatment that require stay at home orders to manage the spread.

Avoid political news sources. They aren't all hysterical. I'm able to check my states website to get info and it tells me how our hospitals are doing with ICU beds and ventilators (we are doing well, too, I think because of social distancing.) Also it seems to me that more local news sources are more neutral and less dramatic than the big national ones, at least where I am, in the US.

And just on tangent, people will bitch if we shut the economy down to try and manage the spread. People will bitch if we don't shut the economy down and millions die from this. You either do too much and "overreact" to a disease that's "not as bad as we thought!" (Maybe it's not so bad in some places because the social distancing measures are working!) Or you do too little and millions die.

 

[David54]

I'm just so tired of people blaming the media for everything.

amen sister. . reporting truth you don't like is a no win for sure. there is so much bullshit out there, and sadly, most of it coming from the white house. then there are his lackeys follow in kind, like the Las Vegas mayor who wants to open up the city. . the Georgia governor. . the president removes the government's specialist on vaccine,, because he didn't support the miracle drug that trump"had a hunch about" . . and threatened India over. . this whole situation is in trump's fucked up lap. .we are number one thanks to this bumbling moron, he has the blood of thousands on his hands. .. but yeah, blame the media

 

[Skarekrow]

Where is Utah's number? Not including it because it's inconvenient to the argument trying to be made. Less than 100 deaths here total and slowly reopening.

Good luck!
I hope the numbers there don't rise...truly.

 

[Skarekrow]

@slant I too am a little concerned about the politicising of it, but more so the media reporting of it.

Anyone who disagrees with the mainstream ideal of what should be happening seems to be ridiculed. It seems that the main stream media have an agenda to push and continue to push it. I don't like people dying as much as anyone else, but why aren't we concerned about deaths from heart disease (US 670K EVERY year) or deaths from cancer (600K EVERY year) - (US Stats only)

The modelling I have read of deaths as a result of COVID -19 is 240K - in it's entirety, and that appears to be the worst case scenario - (US Stats only).

So I wonder why is it so important to report on COVID-19 deaths when no-one appears to be too concerned about the 1.2 MILLION PEOPLE EVERY SINGLE YEAR that die of heart disease and cancer? If the media were so concerned about deaths why not keep reporting cancer and heart disease deaths every day as they are reporting the COVID-19 deaths?

I went to the store and got coughed on, so I died in a swimming pool drowning.
Apples and oranges.


BTW.

Coronavirus now killing more Americans than cancer, heart disease: report
https://www.foxnews.com/health/coro...re-americans-than-cancer-heart-disease-report​

 

[Skarekrow]

Anytime that I come in here presenting new information, such as the angle Sweden is taking, it seems I get an emotional reaction from people here.

You keep talking about Sweden but they have far more death there than anywhere else in that area.
Your one story about how their numbers are better reported still doesn't account for the huge numbers of people dying.
Also, your anxiety about the economy over the actual death of humans baffles me.

 

[Skarekrow]

​

 

[slant]

Because cancer and heart disease aren't highly contagious novel diseases with no cure or standard treatment that require stay at home orders to manage the spread.

Avoid political news sources. They aren't all hysterical. I'm able to check my states website to get info and it tells me how our hospitals are doing with ICU beds and ventilators (we are doing well, too, I think because of social distancing.) Also it seems to me that more local news sources are more neutral and less dramatic than the big national ones, at least where I am, in the US.

And just on tangent, people will bitch if we shut the economy down to try and manage the spread. People will bitch if we don't shut the economy down and millions die from this. You either do too much and "overreact" to a disease that's "not as bad as we thought!" (Maybe it's not so bad in some places because the social distancing measures are working!) Or you do too little and millions die.

There are a multitude of factors why things aren't so bad in Utah. Yes, social distancing is a factor but we all know that social distancing purpose isn't to cure the disease; it's only to slow the spread. The spread will happen if we don't have a vaccine any time we let people out of their houses.

Thing is, the infection rate but moreso the death rate is low in Utah. I'm not as much worried about how many people are infected as I am people who have to become hospitalized for it; that's why we want to slow the spread, right? To avoid hospitals being overrun.

Here are the factors present in Utah that I think are allowing the virus to spread but also not have a significant death toll:

We have 11.1% of the population being 65+, that is the lowest in the country. Compare to New York that has 16% and California with 14%. The mean age is 31 in Utah, vs 36.7 in California and 39 in New York. We are actually the demographically youngest state in the country.

So that covers age which is a risk. The majority of people who have died here were 60+ with an immune condition.

Obesity is a form of poor health and another risk factor. Utah's rate is 25.1% of the population being obese vs new York which is 24.7% and California being 23% so I thought I'd add that statistic to show that in this category Utah is actually most at risk .

I think population density is a huge factor. The number is a display of how many people there are per square mile. Since the spread would be more likely in high density areas they are more at risk. New York; 419. California; 251. Utah; 36.5.

I wanna post this chart. We all know the virus stats aren't 100% accurate but it's the best data we have. Also not all if this is directed at you acd I'm just thinking out loud. You really got me thinking!
State. Confirmed cases. deaths.
New York 263,754 19,453
New Jersey 95,914 5,150
Massachusetts 42,944 2,182
California 37,710. 1,440
Pennsylvania 36,212 1,673
Illinois 35,109 1,565
Michigan 33,966. 2,813
Florida 28,586. 927
Louisiana 25,258. 1,473
Connecticut 22,469 1,544
Texas 21,774 569
Georgia 21,102. 846
Maryland 14,775 698
Ohio 14,117 610
Washington 12,494 692
Indiana 12,438 666
Colorado 10,891 508
Virginia 10,266. 349
Tennessee 7,842 166
North Carolina 7,545 267
Missouri 6,306 242
Rhode Island 5,841 181
Alabama 5,610 201
Arizona 5,473 231
Mississippi 4,894. 193
Wisconsin 4,845 248
South Carolina 4,761 140
Nevada 4,081 187
Iowa 3,748 90
Utah 3,445 34
Kentucky 3,373. 185
District of Columbia 3,206 127
Delaware 3,200. 89
Oklahoma 2,894. 170
Minnesota 2,722 179
Kansas 2,418 112
Arkansas 2,392 44
New Mexico 2,210 71
Oregon 2,059 78
South Dakota 1,858 9
Nebraska 1,813 38
Idaho 1,802. 54
New Hampshire 1,588 48
Puerto Rico 1,378 67
West Virginia 963. 29
Maine 907 39
Vermont 823 40
North Dakota 679 14
Hawaii 592. 12
Wyoming 447 6
Montana 439 14
Alaska 335 9
Guam 136. 5
Virgin Islands. 54

A lot of state hit hardest have a lot of international travel, high population density, and decent sized public transport system.

Looking at the numbers, the lowest states for death, let's look at their population density: iowa:; 55.9. Nebraska; 24.7. Wyoming; 6.0.

See a pattern?

If these medical system aren't already overrun I'm these states, I think the least densely populated states have a good shot at reopening slowly and with precautions on hand. I would ideally like to see these states borders shut down or monitored with some sort of testing protocol.

 

[Skarekrow]

Oil has bottomed out;

Good.
Our tax dollars give them trillions of dollar worth of subsidies every year even though they make record profits every year while destroying our environment.
Let them crash and burn.
They're the real welfare queens.

 

[Skarekrow]

Thing is, the infection rate but moreso the death rate is low in Utah. I'm not as much worried about how many people are infected as I am people who have to become hospitalized for it; that's why we want to slow the spread, right? To avoid hospitals being overrun.

And why do we not want them overrun?
We don't want them to be overrun so more people don't die who otherwise wouldn't.
It's not just to slow down people who will "eventually be infected".
That isn't the point.

 

[slant]

You keep talking about Sweden but they have far more death there than anywhere else in that area.
Your one story about how their numbers are better reported still doesn't account for the huge numbers of people dying.
Also, your anxiety about the economy over the actual death of humans baffles me.

People are going to die whenever you open the country. What sweden is doing is allowing the virus to run through the population all at once. The theory is that once they reach peak, the infections will decline and it will have run through the population. The same will happen here once we open up. The rest of the world is going by the Spanish flu model; open up cities, close them when it gets too bad, open them up again. The same amount of deaths will happen its a matter of when. Admittedly we are seeing high numbers there. I don't think herd immunity has been reached yet. That is what their aim is. It has to peak first and decline, then we will know.

 

[Skarekrow]

People are going to die whenever you open the country. What sweden is doing is allowing the virus to run through the population all at once. The theory is that once they reach peak, the infections will decline and it will have run through the population. The same will happen here once we open up. The rest of the world is going by the Spanish flu model; open up cities, close them when it gets too bad, open them up again. The same amount of deaths will happen its a matter of when. Admittedly we are seeing high numbers there. I don't think herd immunity has been reached yet. That is what their aim is. It has to peak first and decline, then we will know.

Missing the point again.

 

[Skarekrow]

Not my words, can't take credit.



"Legitimate fear and anger is fueling the "Open up the economy" protests in the US, but what's sad to me is how little protesters are asking for in the face of having so much to lose. The "right" to go shopping or reopen a business involves individuals taking on all the risks. Why not instead demand that the government cover 75-80% of employee wages while people are home instead of being fired/furloughed, a solution being used by MANY other countries? Why not ask for a higher minimum wage so people would actually have some savings during times like this? Why not demand we stop giving money to Wall Street, and instead implement a universal basic income for six months? Why not demand that our retirements go back to being pensions instead of being destroyed by the panic of stock market traders? Why not demand the gov buy the crops and food being plowed under by farmers who used to serve restaurants, and instead give it to the thousands of people waiting at food banks? Why not demand universal healthcare?

Those protesters in trucks are not going to go into shops, and neither is anyone else in any great numbers. Their words say one thing, but actions are what counts. It costs them nothing to drive around, but they are not willing to risk standing in a group. Any restaurant that reopens is going to have to pay thousands in liability insurance for a handful of people to come in - the math just doesn't add up. And I think protesters know this, but without a cohesive plan from our government and no end in sight there's nowhere to put that anger. Why not demand an actual multi-step plan like other countries have used successfully?

As for those handful of dudes with guns who are standing in groups: the manufacturing of an "enemy" (cough: scapegoating) is nothing new, but the lack of vision is depressing. What they're asking for isn't revolutionary in any way. Instead, it just supports the billionaires funding those protest facebook groups. The fact that for some people their sense of power is based around eliciting fear from other people is sad, and speaks to how broken our culture is right now.

We *expect* our government to let us down and not take care of its citizens. This is not the mindset of citizens in many other countries. Other countries expect more from their governments. They don't write off the elderly. They don't parade around with guns in a peace-time country because, while no government is perfect, they don't feel the need to intimidate fellow citizens and lawmakers with weapons just to have their voice heard.

The internet is at everyone's disposal - it's not hard to look at what other countries are doing, and how the US could do better. It would mean changing our culture and our country, however. It would mean asking for more than the bare minimum. If people are going to risk their lives (and eventually add burden to healthcare workers), or try to get on TV, I wish it was for something greater, something bigger. Something actually worth fighting for, like real, systemic protection of people's livelihoods."