Corona / Wuhan virus

And why do we not want them overrun?
We don't want them to be overrun so more people don't die who otherwise wouldn't.
It's not just to slow down people who will "eventually be infected".
That isn't the point.
No my understanding is that the hospital being overrun is problematic because other people might need treatment for other things, if we have the hallways filled with people sick and unable to get treated it's going to not only spread the infection but prevent other essential medical care from happening. Without a vaccine there is very little that can be done for those who get really sick. My sense in reading the information about the survival rate of those who get put on ventilators is that the very sickest people majority end up dying anyway.
 
No my understanding is that the hospital being overrun is problematic because other people might need treatment for other things, if we have the hallways filled with people sick and unable to get treated it's going to not only spread the infection but prevent other essential medical care from happening. Without a vaccine there is very little that can be done for those who get really sick. My sense in reading the information about the survival rate of those who get put on ventilators is that the very sickest people majority end up dying anyway.
We've been through this already.
You would rather that those who "cannot be saved" just be allowed to die than put on ventilators?
Sorry, still not the point.
It doesn't have to be the way you describe it.
 
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I think maybe we are speaking past each other and focused on other things.
I agree.
See we can do that still!
 
Good luck!
I hope the numbers there don't rise...truly.
They will rise. It's just that our hospitals can handle it, and the amount of people who are going to get sick here are far less than in other areas because of the stats I described.

No one in Utah believes opening the economy will result in lower numbers. What we think is we have flattened the curve and can maintain it while opening. People are definitely going to get sick. People are definitely going to die. That's how pandemics work.
 
You did see where the Coronavirus is now the number one killer in the US now right?
 
We've been through this already.
You would rather that those who cannot be saved just be allowed to die than put on ventilators?
Sorry, still not the point.
It doesn't have to be the way you describe it.
Essentially yes, so I think that's where we disagree.
 
They will rise. It's just that our hospitals can handle it, and the amount of people who are going to get sick here are far less than in other areas because of the stats I described.

No one in Utah believes opening the economy will result in lower numbers. What we think is we have flattened the curve and can maintain it while opening. People are definitely going to get sick. People are definitely going to die. That's how pandemics work.
Good lord...I give up.
Take care.
Good luck.
I honestly hope your state does well and no one you know dies.
:<3white:
 

Protesters Pushing to Reopen Economy Are ‘Idiots,’ Says Top Manufacturing Lobbyist

In a Facebook post and an interview, Jay Timmons, the head of the National Association of Manufacturers,
sharply criticized demonstrators who have defied social distancing protocols.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/21/business/jay-timmons-coronavirus-protests.html

More Deaths, No Benefits Found in Study of Trump-Touted COVID-19 “Miracle Cure”
https://www.democracynow.org/2020/4...n_study_of_trump_touted_covid_19_miracle_cure
A new study funded by the National Institutes of Health has found coronavirus patients administered the drugs hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin had a higher death rate than those receiving standard care alone. On Tuesday, a panel of experts at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases recommended against the use of the drugs, saying they increase the risk of sudden cardiac death in patients. President Trump has repeatedly touted the drugs as a miracle cure for COVID-19. In March, he tweeted they “have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine.”

NIH Panel Recommends Against Drug Combination Promoted By Trump For COVID-19
https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...g-combination-trump-has-promoted-for-covid-19
 
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Things will have to open up this year otherwise it seems there really will be economic devastation. We aren't at that point yet, though. And I'm not an expert so I can't say when would be the right time to open. I'd be following what epidemiologists are saying. I don't enjoy being stuck at home and want to get back to normal and understand it's making others miserable and causing economic hardship for many. I'm still concerned with getting sick and infecting others. I also have an autoimmune condition. And asthma. I'm one of those high risk people. So would I be extra dead if I got this? Maybe. I'm also still in good health despite those conditions so I might be able to get through it. Really just don't know.
It's really easy to be willing for others to die when you don't count yourself among them. I have a young son I do not want to catch this, either. I don't know how it will affect him. My mother is immunocompromised. And that's what it comes down to. The deaths are either personal for you or they aren't. There's no changing minds on that. But thankfully, most governors are listening to the experts and taking this seriously to protect public health and prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed.
 
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Things will have to open up this year otherwise it seems there really will be economic devastation. We aren't at that point yet, though. And I'm not an expert so I can't say when would be the right time to open. I'd be following what epidemiologists are saying. I don't enjoy being stuck at home and want to get back to normal and understand it's making others miserable and causing economic hardship for many. I'm still concerned with getting sick and infecting others. I also have an autoimmune condition. And asthma. So would I be extra dead if I got this? Maybe. I'm also still healthy despite those conditions so I might be able to get through it. It's really easy to be willing for others to die when you don't count yourself among them. I have a young son I do not want to catch this, either. I don't know how it will affect him. My mother is immunocompromised. And that's what it comes down to. The deaths are either personal for you or they aren't. There's no changing minds on that. But thankfully, most governors are listening to the experts and taking this seriously to protect public health and prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. It's helping. Where I am, now we are looking at opening non emergency procedures.
I agree...it should be done in a systematic, and intelligent manner.
The idea of "herd immunity" sounds all good if you think you are in a safe category, but even those people who think they are low-risk are still at risk of ending up as the one on the ventilator.
And just willy-nilly letting the virus blast through the community is what causes the curve to shoot way up.
I'm sorry, but the idea of just letting those with the virus die off instead of putting them on ventilators because their survival rate is already "low" is cruel imho.
And that survival rate is variable btw - with some estimates as high as 50% or more.
Those are preventable deaths.
I know some people are scared that keeping the economy closed will do more damage than the virus, but we also have to keep in mind that the virus left out of control will also devastate the economy - we don't have to be cruel and let people die unnecessarily to save the economy.
I'm certainly not saying we should keep things closed indefinitely, I DO think that will do unnecessary damage also - there is a happy medium though.
We don't have to let extra people die to rush things "back to normal" (which they will not be no matter what you do at this point).
The virus is now the number one killer in the US - I think we should take that seriously and not rush to reopen massage parlors and football games.
We need actual testing of workers, with contact tracing and proper PPE and then we can reopen as safely as possible without needless extra deaths.
We simply have not seen that on a mass scale here in the US yet.
Probably because we have labradoodle breeders and Jared Kusher in charge of such things instead of actual doctors and scientists.
What a shit show.

We don't have to be so cold triaging and killing people.
It's not obligatory, it's a choice.
 
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Dear Mr. President,
The last I checked we are a red, white and blue democracy. Not just Red republicans. Why is it that the states being allowed to protest an open up are republican states while the blue, or democratic states, are being asked to declare bancruptcy as a way to get the federal aide they were promised???

Something seems a bit shitty when we have a paper plant explode and tractor trailers loaded with toliet tissue spontaneously combusting on I-95???

I'd like answers Mr. President.

Sir, why have you fired the lead doctor working on a vaccine for this shitty virus? Do you honestly think that we would allow you to sit the next four years just because if the virus is still here in November that might be the rule?

Whatca going to do when this little bug bites you in your big ass? Even Emporers are not immune to it's nasty wiles.

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I say hell no, I'll stay home.
 
With as much negativity as there is about Trump, he does have good policies and I want to highlight it.

Federal government to buy supply from farmers, distribute surplus to food banks

U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Sonny Perdue today announced the Coronavirus Food Assistance Program (CFAP). This new U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) program will take several actions to assist farmers, ranchers, and consumers in response to the COVID-19 national emergency. President Trump directed USDA to craft this $19 billion immediate relief program to provide critical support to our farmers and ranchers, maintain the integrity of our food supply chain, and ensure every American continues to receive and have access to the food they need.

“During this time of national crisis, President Trump and USDA are standing with our farmers, ranchers, and all citizens to make sure they are taken care of,” Secretary Perdue said. “The American food supply chain had to adapt, and it remains safe, secure, and strong, and we all know that starts with America’s farmers and ranchers. This program will not only provide immediate relief for our farmers and ranchers, but it will also allow for the purchase and distribution of our agricultural abundance to help our fellow Americans in need.”

More info here: https://www.usda.gov/media/press-re...announces-coronavirus-food-assistance-program

This is very cool. This is FDR like programs.
 
An absolute tragedy’: COVID-19-related plant shutdowns could force hog farmers to kill and dispose of 200,000 pigs

Mike Patterson’s hog farm near Kenyon typically sends animals to the Smithfield Foods processing plant in Sioux Falls. But he can’t now, after the plant shut down because of a COVID-19 outbreak.

With his usual buyer off the market, Patterson’s cooperative has shipped some pigs to an Illinois plant and found local butchers willing to take a small number of hogs. But thousands others are still at his farm, outgrowing barns and occupying space needed by younger pigs. “It really gets to the point where there’s only so much physical space we can have to house the hogs,” Patterson said.

The predicament is becoming increasingly common across Minnesota, where droves of hog farmers have nowhere left to sell their pigs as plants shutter during the pandemic.

More info here:https://www.minnpost.com/greater-mi...ld-force-hog-farmers-to-put-down-200000-pigs/

This is what I'm talking about when I'm saying there is a real issue with the food supply chain. I listen to local agriculture podcasts in farming states. Just because the news isn't reporting on this doesn't mean it's not happening and that's it's not a legitimate issue.
 
Pork Producers Face Uncertain Future As Plants Close Around the Country
A trailer with a capacity for about 60 hogs sat empty behind the barns at Woestehoff Family Farms south of Belle Plaine on Tuesday, April 21. Tuesday was the day the operation was set to ship out 172 animals to Smithfield Foods in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, which closed its doors Sunday, April 12, indefinitely, amid concerns with COVID-19.

The plant is responsible for about 4-5% of the country's pork production, according to the company's website.

“The closure of this facility, combined with a growing list of other protein plants that have shuttered across our industry, is pushing our country perilously close to the edge in terms of our meat supply. It is impossible to keep our grocery stores stocked if our plants are not running. These facility closures will also have severe, perhaps disastrous, repercussions for many in the supply chain, first and foremost our nation’s livestock farmers. These farmers have nowhere to send their animals,” Kenneth M. Sullivan, president and chief executive officer for Smithfield said per a release.

More info here: http://www.belleplaineherald.com/co...cle_b118a288-84ae-11ea-b023-7f617d775627.html


It's not clear to me why pork is the first to be affected, but according to reports I'm reading, chicken and beef will also eventually see the same impact.
 
Farm workers to be exempt from Trump’s immigration ban

An ongoing labor shortage has led to the agriculture industry increasingly relying on the H-2A guest worker program to fill empty jobs on farming operations. In 2019, the Department of Labor certified more than 250,000 H-2A worker visas, a 10 percent increase from the year before. For farmers to hire seasonal workers from other countries, they must prove that the jobs could not be filled by domestic workers.

In recent weeks, the Trump administration has eased requirements for farmers to use the H-2A program as the pandemic has disrupted the labor supply. The federal government waived in-person interviews for workers looking to get hired as embassies have shut down. Farmers can also hire foreign workers currently in the U.S., and the three-year time limit for workers has been temporarily lifted.

More info here: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/21/farm-workers-exempt-trumps-immigration-ban-198039

This is very smart. Majority of these workers are immigrants and our food system will collapse without them.
 
Trump says he 'totally disagrees' with Georgia Gov. Kemp's decision to reopen businesses in the middle of coronavirus pandemic

President Donald Trump said Wednesday he "strongly disagrees" with
Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp's decision to allow businesses like barbershops and nail salons to reopen, a day after he praised him during the White House briefing.

"I told the governor of Georgia, Brian Kemp, that I disagree strongly with his decision to open certain facilities," Trump said at his daily coronavirus briefing Wednesday. "But at the same time, he must do what he thinks is right. I want him to do what he thinks is right. But I disagree with him on what he's doing."

More info here:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...-course-says-too-soon-georgia-reopen-n1190061

I think based on this, there is an understanding that standards have to be met before things can be reopened. This is a sensible measured response.



 
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