Critiquing and Policing

[La Sagna]

This puts me in mind of "The Golden Rule": treat others as you would have them treat you. However, I would rather say in this instance: treat others as they would like to be treated.

Besides, there is a general forum rule that ad hominem is not acceptable. Ie. Saying that some is illogical and spouts is not in good form.

...and some people like to be treated like they are special and get special treatment that the rest of us are not asking for...I think treat others as you would like to be treated is a pretty good and fair rule.

In any case, I will plead mea culpa to ad hominem, which as far as I have seen is not rare on this forum and has been used by people who have complained about it being used against them. Human nature: treat me as I want to be treated and I will treat you as I feel like treating you, not taking into consideration that I would get upset if you treated me the way that I am treating you (not my position, but the one that seems to be most often displayed by human beings, including on this forum).

 

[hush]

The problem is that people have differing opinions as to what is accurate or not, and what is civil or not. I would argue that, unless it is very obviously inappropriate, people should be left to make little harmless digs at each other without making a big fuss about it. I can take the digs I would just like to be able to dig back. I see it as harmless, but people can obviously disagree with me on this.

Except "harmless digs" can turn into something nasty, and you can't project how you personally feel about digs onto other people. You can't expect them to respond as you do, because they are not you. "Harmless digs" turn into pages and pages of thread derailments and petty arguments that solve nothing. All you're doing with such behavior is provoking others, regardless of how you think they should respond. People will respond differently, because we are all different.

All it really does is impede upon civility.

 

[Xroads]

Yes, I understand that. I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't saying that we should or all have a consensus because we're INFJs, more that as a general rule we tend to have a pretty strong social conscious and if you come on here and are critiquing people who are in support of social programs and helping the poor and disadvantaged in the world then you are likely to have many people disagreeing with you. Not that every INFJ will agree, but that there are likely to be more proponents of social programs on an INFJ forum than on an INTJ one, although I am in no way saying that INTJs can't also be proponents of social programs.

I was simply stating that I don't believe that it is surprising or dangerous to have a consensus amongst a group of people with similar personalities.

But... you're still categorizing him as INTJ not just as a forum member. Singling him out. Excluding him from the "collective". And also suggesting he wouldn't receive so much backlash on an exclusive INTJ forum. Does type really matter that much when it comes to posts? One of the main reasons why I chose this forum is because of its diversity when it comes to type. I think using the whole You're on an INFJ forum as an INTJ, so expect this kind of behavior from us and just get used to it type argument is just a cop out. And also when you said in another post that he doesn't understand INFJ's.... another cop out. I can say the same for you, that you don't understand INTJ's, so therefore you're the problem because you read his posts with a certain 'tone'. Because that is basically what you said in that post, the entire issue was him being an INTJ on an INFJ forum.

And another thing, it seems this entire thread was created because you had an issue with JJJA. Why make a thread about it? Why not try to talk to him directly instead of spilling everything over the forum? When you and I had an issue, we took it to pm. Why is this thread even here if it all boils down to there being a disagreement between you and one other forum member? Seems like a silly way to come to a solution or to solve any issues. But that's just me assuming things. Oh, right, not allowed to assume.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

...and some people like to be treated like they are special and get special treatment that the rest of us are not asking for...I think treat others as you would like to be treated is a pretty good and fair rule.

In any case, I will plead mea culpa to ad hominem, which as far as I have seen is not rare on this forum and has been used by people who have complained about it being used against them. Human nature: treat me as I want to be treated and I will treat you as I feel like treating you, not taking into consideration that I would get upset if you treated me the way that I am treating you (not my position, but the one that seems to be most often displayed by human beings, including on this forum).

Everyone is capable of making ad hominem remarks. Most people probably WANT to make ad hominem remarks at one time or another. I certainly have made such remarks on many occasions.

I don't know that trying to justify them, or even extol them is something that most sensible people would even entertain. The appropriate action would seem to be an apology directed to the same person, as unambiguously as the original comments. However, given our weakness that led to the ad hominem, simply dropping the subject and starting afresh is more realistic most of the time.

 

[JJJA]

But... you're still categorizing him as INTJ not just as a forum member. Singling him out. Excluding him from the "collective". And also suggesting he wouldn't receive so much backlash on an exclusive INTJ forum. Does type really matter that much when it comes to posts? One of the main reasons why I chose this forum is because of its diversity when it comes to type. I think using the whole You're on an INFJ forum as an INTJ, so expect this kind of behavior from us and just get used to it type argument is just a cop out. And also when you said in another post that he doesn't understand INFJ's.... another cop out. I can say the same for you, that you don't understand INTJ's, so therefore you're the problem because you read his posts with a certain 'tone'. Because that is basically what you said in that post, the entire issue was him being an INTJ on an INFJ forum.

And another thing, it seems this entire thread was created because you had an issue with JJJA. Why make a thread about it? Why not try to talk to him directly instead of spilling everything over the forum? When you and I had an issue, we took it to pm. Why is this thread even here if it all boils down to there being a disagreement between you and one other forum member? Seems like a silly way to come to a solution or to solve any issues. But that's just me assuming things. Oh, right, not allowed to assume.

I knew this from the very beginning, but restrained myself. I wonder why that is, perhaps it is because I knew I'd receive a backlash? I have simply come to expect it, so perhaps I should say what I want and not give a toss about the butt-hurt, because this thread was created from butt-hurt. So much butt-hurt. Just because a mod slapped her on the wrist, she felt the need to spill her anger onto the forum in the guise of representing herself as an advocate for civility, when in actual fact she was anything but civil.

 

[La Sagna]

But... you're still categorizing him as INTJ not just as a forum member. Singling him out. Excluding him from the "collective". And also suggesting he wouldn't receive so much backlash on an exclusive INTJ forum. Does type really matter that much when it comes to posts? One of the main reasons why I chose this forum is because of its diversity when it comes to type. I think using the whole You're on an INFJ forum as an INTJ, so expect this kind of behavior from us and just get used to it type argument is just a cop out. And also when you said in another post that he doesn't understand INFJ's.... another cop out. I can say the same for you, that you don't understand INTJ's, so therefore you're the problem because you read his posts with a certain 'tone'. Because that is basically what you said in that post, the entire issue was him being an INTJ on an INFJ forum.

And another thing, it seems this entire thread was created because you had an issue with JJJA. Why make a thread about it? Why not try to talk to him directly instead of spilling everything over the forum? When you and I had an issue, we took it to pm. Why is this thread even here if it all boils down to there being a disagreement between you and one other forum member? Seems like a silly way to come to a solution or to solve any issues. But that's just me assuming things. Oh, right, not allowed to assume.

This thread wasn't directed at one person in particular, even if you believe it was. It was directed at the fact that one little comment led to a whole bunch of people trying to take sides which I thought made it into something big when it wasn't in the first place. It was directed more at others that got involved than at the said 'INTJ'.
And as for the INTJ and INFJ stuff, it's only about the fact that you can't expect to come on an INFJ forum and not have INFJs defend the right for people to fight for social causes, and complain because many of us may agree on something.

 

[Xroads]

At first I thought, "Hmm, maybe this really is an actual topic of discussion" but then I read everything. It's obvious what this thread is about and choosing to create an entire thread to prove a point over some else's is just.... seriously?! I don't think the op of this thread even wanted significant discussion, just justification for her own actions. That's my opinion. And I'm still entitled to that much at least. Peace out.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I knew this from the very beginning, but restrained myself. I wonder why that is, perhaps it is because I knew I'd receive a backlash? I have simply come to expect it, so perhaps I should say what I want and not give a toss about the butt-hurt, because this thread was created from butt-hurt. So much butt-hurt.

The trouble with not being an "outsider" is that one ends up being a complicit "insider." ;p

Butthurt was added to the Oxford dictionary this year, so there's no need to hyphenate it. Quivering red cheeks everywhere can be comforted.

 

[JJJA]

Regardless of anything else, it strikes me as odd you saying all of a sudden that you'll say what you want and "not give a toss" when you've already iterated numerous times that this is what you do already.

I have to keep reminding myself and those around me. It's an unhealthy habit.

 

[La Sagna]

I knew this from the very beginning, but restrained myself. I wonder why that is, perhaps it is because I knew I'd receive a backlash? I have simply come to expect it, so perhaps I should say what I want and not give a toss about the butt-hurt, because this thread was created from butt-hurt. So much butt-hurt. Just because a mod slapped her on the wrist, she felt the need to spill her anger onto the forum in the guise of representing herself as an advocate for civility, when in actual fact she was anything but civil.

I have no anger. I was trying to defend your right and my right to not be overpoliced. This apparently keeps going over people's heads. You totally missed the point.

I will apologize to you right now for my ad hominem (which was deleted a long time ago) and tell you that if I wanted to I could go on and make a list of times when you used ad hominem and language that could be construed as personal attacks, although if you say that they are not personal attacks I will respect you enough to believe you and leave it at that.

Since people seem to be having a hard time understanding what I'm trying to get across then I am going to stop trying to explain. This isn't a personal attack by the way, if anybody wants to try to interpret it as so then please let it be known that it could just as easily be interpreted as me not being able to communicate well enough to get my point across, take it as you wish.

 

[La Sagna]

At first I thought, "Hmm, maybe this really is an actual topic of discussion" but then I read everything. It's obvious what this thread is about and choosing to create an entire thread to prove a point over some else's is just.... seriously?! I don't think the op of this thread even wanted significant discussion, just justification for her own actions. That's my opinion. And I'm still entitled to that much at least. Peace out.

You were right in the first place and 100% wrong now. Sorry, I was trying to have a reasoned discussion on the matter but people are putting their own spin on my words and totally misinterpreting them.

 

[JJJA]

How about less talking about it and more doing it.

How about I do it when I want to, and not when you tell me to. (Whatever 'it' is because I speak my mind as much as I can, and only restrain myself when people lash out, but only temporarily).

I think you are contributing nothing to this thread.

 

[La Sagna]

Sigh...

 

[Free]

Completely off-topic but....

The trouble with not being an "outsider" is that one ends up being a complicit "insider." ;p

Butthurt was added to the Oxford dictionary this year, so there's no need to hyphenate it. Quivering red cheeks everywhere can be comforted.

Yay! No more hyphenations and quotations! Wooo hooo!

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I have no anger. I was trying to defend your right and my right to not be overpoliced. This apparently keeps going over people's heads. You totally missed the point.

I will apologize to you right now for my ad hominem (which was deleted a long time ago) and tell you that if I wanted to I could go on and make a list of times when you used ad hominem and language that could be construed as personal attacks, although if you say that they are not personal attacks I will respect you enough to believe you and leave it at that.

Since people seem to be having a hard time understanding what I'm trying to get across then I am going to stop trying to explain. This isn't a personal attack by the way, if anybody wants to try to interpret it as so then please let it be known that it could just as easily be interpreted as me not being able to communicate well enough to get my point across, take it as you wish.

I don't think that people on this thread are having a hard time understanding what you are trying to do on this thread. I think most people have understood it well.

Perhaps you are having a hard time understanding why what you are trying to "get across" isn't going down with others. Understanding this may require some re-evaluation about what you are trying to get across.

 

[La Sagna]

I don't think that people on this thread are having a hard time understanding what you are trying to do on this thread. I think most people have understood it well.

Perhaps you are having a hard time understanding why what you are trying to "get across" isn't going down with others. Understanding this may require some re-evaluation about what you are trying to get across.

Then, please explain to me your interpretation of what I am trying to explain. Since I would be the only one who actually knows what I'm trying to explain then anything else would be an interpretation, which could be accurate or not, I'm the only one who can judge that.

 

[JJJA]

Well I guess you had me fooled.

Hey what's with the double edit?

Now triple edit?

It's called adding an appendix so that I can further my point, if you really wanted to know.

 

[JJJA]

That's what you call it when you say I'm not contributing to the thread, then decide to remove that line, then change your mind and put it back in?

Ok.

I don't recall removing that line. I added it. You see the exchange we're still having? It is not contributing anything to what can already be described as a pointless thread to begin with.

 

[La Sagna]

Ok, people. I think I got the point.

People are very sensitive about this topic and discussing it is bringing out these sensitivities. Please go on posting in whichever way you choose to and if you respond to any of my posts with something that I feel the need to answer to then I will be very careful in choosing my words so as to not offend those sensitivities, but since I can't always know in advance what those are then I will apologize in advance and let you know that I do not mean offence by anything that I say.

I apparently stirred a pot that was full of much more than what I was trying to discuss.

Please go on, live your life, enjoy discussing your ideas...

This has been very enlightening.

 

[hush]