Death throes of liberal America.

Ren said:
Hey everyone! Non U.S. citizen here.

I was wondering if somebody could give me a definition of 'conservative' and 'liberal' from an American perspective. Because based on what I read on this thread, I'm under the impression that the terms mean something quite different from what they mean in Europe. Help appreciated. After that, I should be able to contribute some substantial opinions.
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Liberals are defined by more progressive policies
In social aspects:
Gay Marriage
Transgendered Rights
Women's' Rights
In Economic aspects:
Regulating corporate wealth
Social safety nets/ public welfare institutions
Globalization
And the Conservatives take the postions of:
Free Market/Trickle down economics
Less public programs and welfare
anti-gay and pro-traditional values
Pro-guns
etc.
 
Ren said:
Hey everyone! Non U.S. citizen here.

I was wondering if somebody could give me a definition of 'conservative' and 'liberal' from an American perspective. Because based on what I read on this thread, I'm under the impression that the terms mean something quite different from what they mean in Europe. Help appreciated. After that, I should be able to contribute some substantial opinions.
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Sure .
Conservative is someone who doesn't have All the answers but recognizes what we do have is a good foundation to work off of. They also love America.

A liberal is someone who hates America and wants to see it torn down and rebuilt in an image they can't agree on. They'll sign off on it so long as It's not a conservative vision though. Also liberals think everyone should have the same things regardless of what they do for a living. If you do have more, it should be taken away and distributed to those who are deemed to have less. Liberals will decide who that is. They also feel as If we should be taking care of anyone in the world who asks for help...again so long as they don't identify as conservative.
 
Eventhorizon said:
Sure .
Conservative is someone who doesn't have All the answers but recognizes what we do have is a good foundation to work off of. They also love America.

A liberal is someone who hates America and wants to see it torn down and rebuilt in an image they can't agree on. They'll sign off on it so long as It's not a conservative vision though. Also liberals think everyone should have the same things regardless of what they do for a living. If you do have more, it should be taken away and distributed to those who are deemed to have less. Liberals will decide who that is. They also feel as If we should be taking care of anyone in the world who asks for help...again so long as they don't identify as conservative.
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I think you're confusing hating America with recognizing it has flaws. Also you oversimplified a lot your points to the degree that they are now incorrect.
 
Reason With Logic Filling said:
I think you're confusing hating America with recognizing it has flaws. Also you oversimplified a lot your points to the degree that they are now incorrect.
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They are not incorrect but they have absolutely been simplified. Don't forget the audience.
 
Reason With Logic Filling said:
They are incorrect, you've dissembled the information.
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What I have posted is correct. It's just not the whole story.

However this is a discussion forum and as such you are able to point out how I am wrong or at least, how you believe me to be wrong. Just as everyone is.
 
Eventhorizon said:
Sure .
Conservative is someone who doesn't have All the answers but recognizes what we do have is a good foundation to work off of. They also love America.

A liberal is someone who hates America and wants to see it torn down and rebuilt in an image they can't agree on. They'll sign off on it so long as It's not a conservative vision though. Also liberals think everyone should have the same things regardless of what they do for a living. If you do have more, it should be taken away and distributed to those who are deemed to have less. Liberals will decide who that is. They also feel as If we should be taking care of anyone in the world who asks for help...again so long as they don't identify as conservative.
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@Eventhorizon As much as I've grown to appreciate your integrity, I am glad you never joined the Philosophy thread :tearsofjoy:

You need to provide a definition of the terms that is not overloaded with value judgments, so that (at least in theory) people may be able to opt for liberalism over conservatism. It's impossible to not equate your definitions with "conservatism is good" and "liberalism is bad", and I find that suspicious.
 
Eventhorizon said:
Also liberals think everyone should have the same things regardless of what they do for a living. If you do have more, it should be taken away and distributed to those who are deemed to have less. Liberals will decide who that is. They also feel as If we should be taking care of anyone in the world who asks for help...again so long as they don't identify as conservative.
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First, you've dissembled the description of wealth redistribution. What is a tax- based bureaucratic process now reads like Stalin's secret police are ripping the fur coats off rich old women. Liberals decide who wealth is redistributed to because conservatives are implacably opposed to the idea, but the way you phrased it is more diabolical sounding, second instance of dissembling information. Finally the idea that people do not benefit from these programs if they are conservative is non-sense. Poor, working class people receive welfare whilst voting conservative. This last one isn't dissembling, it's just a flat out lie.
 
Eventhorizon said:
What I have posted is correct. It's just not the whole story.
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This is a confession of dissembling information which, if you are going to dissemble information, the whole point of doing it is lost if you admit you're doing it.

Dissembling information (in sociological terms) if I remember correctly is the chopping up of facts and presenting them in a way that is incredibly misleading.
For example: If my brother is clumsy and I ask you if he made it down the stairs the obvious thing i'm concerned about is his well-being.
However, if you saw him fall down and break every bone in his body you could tell me that he made it down the stairs- this is technically correct, because he did, but presented in a way that is dishonest in the spirit of what i'm trying to find out because it leaves out the detail i'm concerned about- his being hurt.
 

Essentially @Wyote liberals and conservatives eat pizza, drink cola, and continue to disobey Britannias majestic rule as issued to her by god.

It's insufferable. Load the tiddlywinks. Prepare Paddington Bear and Dr Who. Make ready your surrender. There will be back taxes. And no, you may not go to Canada. They are nice.
 
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Can we at least avoid admins quoting things I have not said? I mean I think Its completely feasible I at some point may actually say that or something like that but that I have not as of yet.

@Wyote
 
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@Ren requested a simple description of American politics, not an attack and you, @Eventhorizon provided him with dissembled, innacurate information. So what are we to make of this? Are you dissembling this information yourself or are you unable to find access to even basic information that has not already been dissembled?
 
Lady Jolanda said:
Eventhorizon, you disappoint me. Just on the previous page you wrote a concise, very clear and logically sound piece on human nature. Please, more of that. Less of this.
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I grow weary on occasion. Not unlike that of a drunk to unwilling to move and yelling at the barkeep to bring another through slurred words.
 
Reason With Logic Filling said:
@Ren requested a simple description of American politics, not an attack and you, @Eventhorizon provided him with dissembled, innacurate information. So what are we to make of this? Are you dissembling this information yourself or are you unable to find access to even basic information that has not already been dissembled?
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Provide him.with your version then. I provided him with mine.
 
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