[ENFP] Does she like me? Do you guys ever take a week alone time from someone you love?

She hasn’t done anything wrong though. Not reciprocating the OP’s feelings at the same intensity (as of yet) is not a fault of hers. As a matter of fact, she’s being smart in that sense. Confronting her over that, especially in the context of this being a long distance relationship where they haven’t met in real life, looks way more weird and needy than attractive in my opinion. This chick (lol if she’s who she says she is) sounds like she is young and wants to have fun. Pressing her about commitment right now? You may as well douse yourself in pepper spray and go running after her. Surefire way to get yourself ghosted.
 
MINFJToothFairy said:
These vulnerabilities and fears thereof. This dynamic of attraction, seduction, and pretend disinterest. The whole dating shenanigan, I know it happens to most everyone, but I wonder if the level of distrust and complexity is higher when dealing with an attractive counterpart.
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Yeah that 'pretend disinterest' stuff I just roll my eyes at. The whole gameplaying for status in a relationship, and the fact that these ideas are out there in a big way, really triggers my cynicism and I end up just closing off from society and shutting down emotionally.

I read an article a few months ago addressing the issue of your gf not wanting to have sex with you (not an issue I had, but something I happened upon while browsing), and the 'solution' was to make sure that she noticed you texting other girls to trigger her jealousy and make you seem high-value. :expressionless: Seriously, what is the point?

There's no doubt that some people are wired up this way, but I'm not sure that it correlates with 'attractiveness'.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
Lol

@wiredandwound is just coming from a place of absolute cynicism, where it feels like nothing but a rigid adherence to a certain kind of 'masculinity' will secure the love of a woman. I understand. I get it.

He's probably been hurt by a woman or two, and has witnessed that their love for him is highly conditional, thus becoming terrified of showing any kind of 'weakness'.

What you're hearing is pure fear that women are ultimately callous and incapable of loving men. It's not a weird idea - it's all over the place with the 'red pill', &c.

Honestly, when I'm cynical, this is where I go, even though I try to fight it by being emotional and open with women.

Imagine being in love, but not allowed to express it in any way for fear of killing her attraction to you - this is the dilemma many men are in today, and it's fucking scary. Baseless or not. Don't dismiss that.

Now, other than that, your attitude sucks, @wiredandwound.
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Here we go with the "toxic masculinity fallacy".

What I was telling him to do was to call her up and initiate his duty to himself and her.

Does that really sound like I was telling him to NOT express himself?

Come on, man. Even you know that's malarkey.
 
Sloe Djinn said:
She hasn’t done anything wrong though. Not reciprocating the OP’s feelings at the same intensity (as of yet) is not a fault of hers. As a matter of fact, she’s being smart in that sense. Confronting her over that, especially in the context of this being a long distance relationship where they haven’t met in real life, looks way more weird and needy than attractive in my opinion. This chick (lol if she’s who she says she is) sounds like she is young and wants to have fun. Pressing her about commitment right now? You may as well douse yourself in pepper spray and go running after her. Surefire way to get yourself ghosted.
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Yeah, man, bitches be repulsed by love.

You gotta be disinterested. That's what they like.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
I read an article a few months ago addressing the issue of your gf not wanting to have sex with you (not an issue I had, but something I happened upon while browsing), and the 'solution' was to make sure that she noticed you texting other girls to trigger her jealousy and make you seem high-value. :expressionless: Seriously, what is the point?
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I've never cheated on my wife, because she's an angle - if you haven't noticed. But I've never had more opportunities with other women than I've had with a wedding band on. It can be really tough, and scary when the temptation strikes.
 
wiredandwound said:
If someone gets hurt by someone they love, it's absolutely imperative that they communicate it quickly - INFJ or not.

How do I know? Because I've had a ring on my finger for over 12 years in a world where 50% of marriages fail across all demographics.

Men, who have supportive friends, don't hold much back, when it comes to this kind of thing - it has nothing to do with personality type. Men don't care about the kind of person you love, they care about how their friend is handling the situation in a beneficial way.

I get it. Hearing the hard stuff sucks for the person receiving it. But do you know what is harder? Nobody saying anything at all, or just letting you go on with a delusion.
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Okay. Hmm, now that makes sense. But still, I hated the way you said it earlier. Lol
 
April said:
Okay. Hmm, now that makes sense. But still, I hated the way you said it earlier. Lol
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I think what we are facing here is the result of conversations that should be held in private.

My male support group aka married friends, will pull each other aside and let the brutal truth come out. We don't walk away from it until we are both cool with each other. I know what I said sounded harsh, but that's what a lot of these conversations sound like. We do it because we care.
 
April said:
Okay. Hmm, now that makes sense. But still, I hated the way you said it earlier. Lol
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The tough conversations are tough because they are the most important.

Whenever we have those conversations we say things that are tough intentionally to get the blood moving. Here's why:

When you have a friend that is scared to do the hard thing, they are hiding behind a wall of protection, where they feel comfortable. To really get to the truth of the matter, it requires making them feel less comfortable in that space. Then their blood gets boiling and they usually lash out - this is a good thing.

Then we say "Good, use that feeling and tell me what the hell is really going on".

And then the flood gates open and the truth finally comes out.

We talk through it - mostly listening - then reassure our friend that we still love them, and tell them that we really were concerned.

We say "Are we cool know", and then hug it out. Then we say "Now let's go have a beer". And not only are we better friends, but whatever the original issue was, tends to get resolved.

That's compassion.
 
wiredandwound said:
I think what we are facing here is the result of conversations that should be held in private.

My male support group aka married friends, will pull each other aside and let the brutal truth come out. We don't walk away from it until we are both cool with each other. I know what I said sounded harsh, but that's what a lot of these conversations sound like. We do it because we care.
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I can understand that. I retract my previous statement of not liking you and then say I didn't like how you were being. There! :)
 
wiredandwound said:
The tough conversations are tough because they are the most important.

Whenever we have those conversations we say things that are tough intentionally to get the blood moving. Here's why:

When you have a friend that is scared to do the hard thing, they are hiding behind a wall of protection, where they feel comfortable. To really get to the truth of the matter, it requires making them feel less comfortable in that space. Then their blood gets boiling and they usually lash out - this is a good thing.

Then we say "Good, use that feeling and tell me what the hell is really going on".

And then the flood gates open and the truth finally comes out.

We talk through it - mostly listening - then reassure our friend that we still love them, and tell them that we really were concerned.

We say "Are we cool know", and then hug it out. Then we say "Now let's go have a beer". And not only are we better friends, but whatever the original issue was, tends to get resolved.

That's compassion.
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:O
I get it! Its... scary. But sort of attractive as in I wish I could adopt some of this for myself...
 
MINFJToothFairy said:
Funny because I can pretty much say that this is what most women feel about men.

Edit: But actually I wonder whether these things only apply to attractive people
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Yes. Were all scared bitches inside lol
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
Lol, you really have a way with words.
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Ikr... he's so rude. Haha. But he does make sense. O.O

Edit. I only mean I understand and I get it.. not that I will be adopting any of his viewpoints, however I will chew on his words and add them to my bank of perspectives. :)
 
Sloe Djinn said:
She hasn’t done anything wrong though. Not reciprocating the OP’s feelings at the same intensity (as of yet) is not a fault of hers. As a matter of fact, she’s being smart in that sense. Confronting her over that, especially in the context of this being a long distance relationship where they haven’t met in real life, looks way more weird and needy than attractive in my opinion. This chick (lol if she’s who she says she is) sounds like she is young and wants to have fun. Pressing her about commitment right now? You may as well douse yourself in pepper spray and go running after her. Surefire way to get yourself ghosted.
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I just wanted to add that we aren't privy to the nature of the conversations OP and the girl have had and we must be careful that we're not projecting onto the relationship and presupposing a deeper connection than what we ourselves would develop before we declare that we love someone. All we have is OP's word and general descriptions on whats going on... and he's pretty open in admitting that he falls hard very fast. We've also seen glimmers of the casual nature of this relationship as well (OP is still 'browsing' around on Tinder and open to connections with others, her suggesting threesomes, OP being open to such arrangements, etc.) so this already suggests something funky going on with everyone's expectations. If he's telling this girl that he's ok with keeping things casual and then giving her ultimatums and crossing boundaries he previously respected (re: her alone time and needing to meet him before she decides how she feels) that might put her hackles up... especially if she had any earlier misgivings about the relationship that we don't know about.

So much depends on how things are communicated too. Different people can have different definitions of what 'calmly' and 'reasonably' entails, for example. (I will never forget a friend describing her reaction to something happening on vacation... and then being shown video evidence that wildly begged to differ lol. People generally try to present themselves in the best light).

The funny thing about human nature is that even when we're not feeling that strongly about someone, our fear of rejection may have us grappling for their attention and conflating that desire for validation and certainty with our feelings for them. And sometimes the bigger the insecurity, the larger the imbalance in our behavior.

And there's a lot of imbalanced behaviors out there that give us reasons to be cautious and blow on cold air. Especially online. There are exceptions, of course, but generally speaking.... how well can you really *know* someone until you spent some time with them face to face?

Sloe Djinn said:
People tend to show only their best online. I’m talking about being careful and grounded.
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Yes. This. And besides people showing you their best, I think its also easier to project onto someone online than it is offline-- and not just in terms of the best, but the worst too. I think it's healthy to be cautious and not get your hopes up (or down) straight away. People move at different speeds. You generally want to pick one that's along the same wavelength that balances the both of your needs and has you meet in a middle that's comfortable for both. If there's an imbalance there, there's your first hurdle in the relationship and so much is going to depend on a person's previous experiences with this exact thing.

At this point, it's best to just leave it and see what happens. OP, you've said what you've needed to say and now that ball is in her court... as intended. Hopefully, the connection the both of you have described will carry you both somewhere positive when you do meet.

In the meantime, it's out of your control now. Finishing purging whatever frustrated emotions you need to purge, and try to focus on something else.
 
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