Etiquette

[Wyote]

She's just harboring some unresolved feelings and placing them on you
It's a faux pas from her perspective due to the discomfort of having to recall those feelings
Nobody outside of her is going to feel the same way

 

[Asa]

@Asa I don’t think this is lacking in etiquette. For a start, how were you to know they’d broken up? If the photo represented an occasion that was very special to them as a couple then it was charitable of you to withdraw your comment when you found out.

If it wasn’t a special occasion for them, then I can maybe understand her problem, but I can’t sympathise. She wasn’t in the photo, she wasn’t tagged, and she says she and V are still on good terms.

It speaks of how much we've grown apart since Covid because I didn't know. I guess he hasn't been telling people, though.

This occasion didn't involve the ex. Every time V visited his home city, we'd get together. This was one of those times. The ex wasn't with him on this occasion.

I think there is only so much we can do to accommodate each partner of a couple that splits up. Neither of them can reasonably expect the split to mean old friends cannot reconnect - that would be a significant breach of etiquette in my book.

I do believe expecting people to change [random] decisions and actions that do not directly affect a person is a breach of etiquette, but I also know people with broken hearts are sensitive and irrational, and I am empathetic. If the situation was different and she was in the photo, there was trauma of any kind related to the end of the relationship (abuse, death, a nasty break-up, or anything else), and if I knew the circumstances and commented anyway, I'd be at fault.

I am bothered by people who make up rules, do not inform others of those rules, and then get upset if we break the mysterious, unspoken rules. This is skirting that territory to me. I also like this woman and wouldn't want to hurt her. There is probably something else going on with this break-up that she isn't telling me. It was easy for me to just delete my comment.

It's kind of funny because my target was picking up the signal of the other woman in the photo, who seems to be going through something and has grown distant from friends. V's ex interfered with my effort. LOL. Oh well. I will find another way.

 

[Asa]

She's just harboring some unresolved feelings and placing them on you
It's a faux pas from her perspective due to the discomfort of having to recall those feelings
Nobody outside of her is going to feel the same way

I agree. Heartbroken people can be irrational and sensitive.

Reminder for self: When heartbroken, and this happens, remember that people aren't trying to hurt you.

 

[aeon]

The only faux pas, and misstep, was her not respecting a boundary, and implying that you were responsible for someone elseʼs emotional labor.

Um, no.

Banal drama seasoned with a nip of shaming. Fuck that noise.

smh,
Ian

 

[aeon]

I will add that I would have deleted my comment too. I tend towards self-censor if it serves to preserve someoneʼs emotional well-being within the context of relationships, regardless of my thoughts.

The exception being self-expression about my experience of my own primary relationships. That said, I tend to keep that close to the breast, because reflection on intimacies carries forward the original mutual consent. Those emotional truths arenʼt secrets...they simply live with the dyad, and rightfully perish outside of that.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[Asa]

I will add that I would have deleted my comment too. I tend towards self-censor if it serves to preserve someoneʼs emotional well-being within the context of relationships, regardless of my thoughts.

The exception being self-expression about my experience of my own primary relationships. That said, I tend to keep that close to the breast, because reflection on intimacies carries forward the original mutual consent. Those emotional truths arenʼt secrets...they simply live with the dyad, and rightfully perish outside of that.

Cheers,
Ian

Doing extra to ensure nobody's feelings are hurt seems like a common thing for those interested in etiquette to do.

 

[John K]

I do believe expecting people to change [random] decisions and actions that do not directly affect a person is a breach of etiquette, but I also know people with broken hearts are sensitive and irrational, and I am empathetic. If the situation was different and she was in the photo, there was trauma of any kind related to the end of the relationship (abuse, death, a nasty break-up, or anything else), and if I knew the circumstances and commented anyway, I'd be at fault.

I am bothered by people who make up rules, do not inform others of those rules, and then get upset if we break the mysterious, unspoken rules. This is skirting that territory to me. I also like this woman and wouldn't want to hurt her. There is probably something else going on with this break-up that she isn't telling me. It was easy for me to just delete my comment.

It's kind of funny because my target was picking up the signal of the other woman in the photo, who seems to be going through something and has grown distant from friends. V's ex interfered with my effort. LOL. Oh well. I will find another way.

My feeling is that understanding the social rules and how we actually respond to a particular situation are two very different things, and rightly so. We all tolerate children's behaviour up to a point for example, and those of us who have had dealings with elderly folks treading the path of dementia know that social rules are not the main guiding light. This is an exaggeration to make the point, but in my book social rules aren't the most important thing - there are times when we make allowances because we care for each other. You obviously triggered something painful for this lady even though what you did was definitely not a 'sin' against etiquette - I bet you that the awkward relationship between those two is leading to similar difficulties with other friends and family. I had something sort of similar happen to me in the forum a few years ago - a returning member I didn't know objected to my user name because it was too close to that of someone she had cared for previously who had gone quite a while before I joined. I was sad for her, but I wasn't willing to change it because I'm using my own given name. If I had created an invented user name instead, I may well have changed it in order to allow for her distress.

I hope you manage to reconnect with these guys OK.

 

[Asa]

This etiquette rule is somewhat of a "correct fork" rule, but I think it is funny.

It is considered poor etiquette to display candles with unburned wicks. A properly displayed candle should have a blackened wick. There may be an exception for sculpture candles that are meant to be displayed as art. Now that you know this, if you didn't know it before, you're going to notice how many people display new candles. You can't tell them, though, because it is rude to point out another person's poor etiquette.

Why, though? I've read that it began when electricity was new, and people with electricity burned the wicks of their candles to make those who could not afford electricity feel more comfortable in their homes. The other reason is that we aren't supposed to display anything that our guests can't use. If you display pretty soaps, a fruit bowl, candles, candy, etc, it should be okay for your guests to use these items. They shouldn't feel uncomfortable using the items, and they shouldn't wonder if they are "allowed" to use them.

When I learned this, I quickly lit my wicks.

 

[Asa]

My feeling is that understanding the social rules and how we actually respond to a particular situation are two very different things, and rightly so. We all tolerate children's behaviour up to a point for example, and those of us who have had dealings with elderly folks treading the path of dementia know that social rules are not the main guiding light. This is an exaggeration to make the point, but in my book social rules aren't the most important thing - there are times when we make allowances because we care for each other. You obviously triggered something painful for this lady even though what you did was definitely not a 'sin' against etiquette - I bet you that the awkward relationship between those two is leading to similar difficulties with other friends and family. I had something sort of similar happen to me in the forum a few years ago - a returning member I didn't know objected to my user name because it was too close to that of someone she had cared for previously who had gone quite a while before I joined. I was sad for her, but I wasn't willing to change it because I'm using my own given name. If I had created an invented user name instead, I may well have changed it in order to allow for her distress.

You're likely right.

Ohhh, this mindset irks me. I usually avoid people like this. It's the equivalent of blaming someone for sharing a first name with an ex. It smacks of a "the world revolves around me" attitude.

I hope you manage to reconnect with these guys OK.

Thank you. I received a holiday card from the other couple today, which makes me happy.


Oh, another weird piece of etiquette I learned: Place the card in the envelope so the hinge is at the bottom. This allows people to use a letter opener without cutting the hinge of the card.



Of course, I remembered this half-way through addressing holiday cards. LOL.

 

[Elder]

Why, though? I've read that it began when electricity was new, and people with electricity burned the wicks of their candles to make those who could not afford electricity feel more comfortable in their homes. The other reason is that we aren't supposed to display anything that our guests can't use. If you display pretty soaps, a fruit bowl, candles, candy, etc, it should be okay for your guests to use these items. They shouldn't feel uncomfortable using the items, and they shouldn't wonder if they are "allowed" to use them.

I love this. The rule seems silly and I would naturally scoff at it, but with that explanation, it feels so much warmer. I think I would feel that in a home without necessarily understanding why it feels comfortable.

I appreciate you and the way you approach these ideas of etiquette.

 

[Asa]

I love this. The rule seems silly and I would naturally scoff at it, but with that explanation, it feels so much warmer. I think I would feel that in a home without necessarily understanding why it feels comfortable.

Same. I have a growing appreciation for some of these rules because of the intent behind them.

I appreciate you and the way you approach these ideas of etiquette.

Thank you.

It really stems from my desire to show kindness to others while understanding what is expected. Humans are confusing. I don't like unnecessary rules that don't make sense or aren't needed, but I want to know what the rules are before I get into hot water.
Well, I also do get some satisfaction from finding out I was right about some rules when other people were rude to me. LOL.

 

[Asa]

Not wearing white after Labor Day is an "etiquette rule" based on gatekeeping. The wealthy people who owned summer homes in places like the Hamptons and Newport, RI invented this rule to exclude common people. The rule implies that summer clothes should not be worn after Labor Day. This is not a rule that people need to follow. It is fine to wear white after Labor Day, but people typically wear heavier fabrics than in summer simply because it makes sense to do so. People who are into fashion or need to dress up for work acknowledge the change in seasons by switching to heavier fabrics, too. In short, it is a fake etiquette rule and it was not invented in the spirit of proper etiquette.

So, rock winter white, everyone! LOL!

 

[Matty]

What's the etiquette on a plane when you're on a window seat, need to get up, and the passenger next to you is asleep and the row in front is reclining?

A. Try to scoot past.
B. Tap on shoulder.
C. Bump their elbow repeatedly.
D. Tug on their sleeve.
E. Talk into their ear.
F. Something else.

 

[Asa]

@Matty -- F. Say something politely.

If nobody responds, try gently tapping the person who is most in your way - either the recliner or your neighbor. If they don't respond, call a flight attendant.

Plane etiquette is a mess.

I'd rather sit and be uncomfortable for six hours than wake someone up or ask a flight attendant for help. Haha.

 

[John K]

What's the etiquette on a plane when you're on a window seat, need to get up, and the passenger next to you is asleep and the row in front is reclining?

A. Try to scoot past.
B. Tap on shoulder.
C. Bump their elbow repeatedly.
D. Tug on their sleeve.
E. Talk into their ear.
F. Something else.

I was a frequent flier for many years and always booked an aisle seat. It’s not just access to the inflight facilities but it got you off the plane faster when it landed. It never bothered me when anyone needed to wake me up to get past - needs must, and I never slept deeply on a plane anyway. I suspect many folks who travel overnight sleep only very lightly.

I always found the biggest problem was the anxiety when someone came down the aisle during boarding carrying a baby on a transatlantic overnight flight. And the relief when they walked on by to a different part of the plane. People who have to travel with an infant on long haul need a big medal, and so does everyone within 5 rows of them lol. But that’s not an etiquette problem as long as mum or dad have brought something for the kid to suck to try and clear its ear pressure.

 

[Matty]

I was a frequent flier for many years and always booked an aisle seat. It’s not just access to the inflight facilities but it got you off the plane faster when it landed. It never bothered me when anyone needed to wake me up to get past - needs must, and I never slept deeply on a plane anyway. I suspect many folks who travel overnight sleep only very lightly.

I always found the biggest problem was the anxiety when someone came down the aisle during boarding carrying a baby on a transatlantic overnight flight. And the relief when they walked on by to a different part of the plane. People who have to travel with an infant on long haul need a big medal, and so does everyone within 5 rows of them lol. But that’s not an etiquette problem as long as mum or dad have brought something for the kid to suck to try and clear its ear pressure.

 

[Asa]

Bring your noise-canceling headphones. LOL

This also helps with neighbors who want to chat for the entire flight.

 

[John K]

They weren’t around in my travelling days but thankfully the problem was very rare. The worst flight I was ever on is when my colleague booked us in on the back row. This was when you were still allowed to smoke on a plane and as non smokers we hadn’t realised that the back few rows were for the addicts. Half an hour in, the message came up that folks could now smoke and 50 desperate people lit up all at the same time. I’d rather have a screaming toddler I think, though it’s a close-run thing.

 

[Elder]

Oohh...I have one!

I am going to my work's yearly Gratitude Party tonight. It is an event where, in the past, there has been some sort of presentation celebrating how many clients we served and activities/ways we lived our values of serving/community/connection over the past year. There will be a catered meal and there are usually gift bags of swag for each of us. There will be some sort of connection activity, too (icebreaker sort).

Because of my ongoing chronic fatigue, I have been given a pass to not attend if I am not feeling up to it by the owner.

I think I am going to go. The food seems worth the energy right now. Lol It is the social piece that actually taps my energy. If I can find a talkative group that mostly lets me observe to sit by it will tax me less, so that is a plan.

Here is my etiquette question:

Who do I need to make an effort to say goodbye to and thank before I leave?

The owners are a husband and wife. I think them at minimum?

The leadership team includes the wife of the couple and two other colleagues. Should I find these colleagues to say goodbye, too?

Anyone else?

It is the long goodbye from group to group and not feeling I am doing it right anxiety that actually taps my energy the most.

Also, how much small talk is sufficient as you are saying goodbye? I don't have a sense of when the goodbye is complete?

 

[aeon]

Also, how much small talk is sufficient as you are saying goodbye? I don't have a sense of when the goodbye is complete?

Of course you donʼt...youʼre a native Minnesotan!


Ian