How can I gain an INFJ's forgiveness after fucking up in a major way?

just say sorry
 
Make your own choices, not from desperation, pleasure, etc, but from the most solid parts of yourself.

Give thought to the way you think and how your thought patterns changes your environment. How much of reality are you actually seeing?






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Naxx said:
Make your own choices, not from desperation, pleasure, etc, but from the most solid parts of yourself.
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That is what I am doing.

Give thought to the way you think and how your thought patterns changes your environment. How much of reality are you actually seeing?
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Most of it, at the very least.
 
Loki, I've read through all 5 pages of this post. Just send the darn thing. It'll flop like a fly in January, but you'll figure something out from sending it. I don't know what you'll learn but that's how it's done here on Earth. You screw up, screw up again, and then you learn a thing or two.
 
Razare said:
Loki, I've read through all 5 pages of this post. Just send the darn thing. It'll flop like a fly in January, but you'll figure something out from sending it. I don't know what you'll learn but that's how it's done here on Earth. You screw up, screw up again, and then you learn a thing or two.
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Hahaha. I don't share your confidence that it will be a flop, but apart from that, I couldn't agree more. I'm just waiting to send it until I've heard back from some people what they think of it. Then I'm going to sit on it a week, read it again, see it if still sounds good, and then send it.
 
Here is the letter in its current form. If anyone is interested in reacting to it in any way, please do, I would greatly appreciate the feedback.

Dear Sarah

I have a few things I would like to say. I’m not very good at this sort of thing, but I’ll do my best. First, it was preposterous and wrong of me to imply that Angie had done anything worthy of blame or reproach when last I wrote to you. The truth is that I was hurt that she wouldn’t even let me tell her I was sorry. And I was too proud to admit it, so I scorned her instead. I’m sorry for this and for anything else I have done, said, or written that may have been perceived as disrespectful or critical.

I did what I did first semester because I had serious self-esteem issues. Angie made me feel alright about myself, and as you can imagine, I got a bit emotionally dependent on her as a result. Then, just when I had grown accustomed to her supplying me with the hope and self-esteem I couldn’t give myself, I drove her away. And then I just gave up. That was obviously very scary in the short term, but in the long term it meant that I had no choice but to do what I needed in order to get better. I wish I could thank her for refusing to be my crutch.

I think it was probably best that Angie and I didn’t speak during second semester, at least for the first half or so. I couldn’t see it at the time, but I was still dealing with stuff and figuring out who I am. She met me at a very strange time in my life. However, a lot’s changed since then. I sincerely hope we can be friends again at some point in future.

I want to be friends with Angie again in large part because I find it distracting, uncomfortable, and awkward to see people who I’m not on good terms with, let alone not on speaking terms. At the very least, I would very much like there to be peace between us.

But to be honest, the main reason is that I think she’s an interesting person, I admire her character, and I know that I can talk with her about things that actually interest me. Even at our school, it’s remarkably hard to find people who are into ideas, social-change, philosophy and what have you, who aren’t also completely insufferable in some way. I suppose I know a reasonable amount of them at this point, but not nearly enough for my liking. You can never have too many good people in your life.

Your friend,
Loki
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The letter is too self focused - in this situation the use of "I" should be reserved for two sentences only: "I want Angie to know how how very grateful I am for how she helped me when I was down." & "I am very sorry for having abused her support, by dragging her into my problems."

Neither Angie nor Sarah need to read your explanations or qualifications about what happened. As for how you have changed, that should be evident from how your intentions have changed (which any INFJ can easily read in between the lines). Asserting that you have changed will only bring the fact into scruitiny.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
The letter is too self focused - in this situation the use of "I" should be reserved for two sentences only: "I want Angie to know how how very grateful I am for how she helped me when I was down." & "I am very sorry for having abused her support, by dragging her into my problems."

Neither Angie nor Sarah need to read your explanations or qualifications about what happened. As for how you have changed, that should be evident from how your intentions have changed (which any INFJ can easily read in between the lines). Asserting that you have changed will only bring the fact into scruitiny.
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what he said ^

If I were to read that, all I would see is a person trying to alleviate his own feelings of guilt, it seems to be quite a selfish letter, this isn't about you, why would she care for your justification? the actions that occurred hurt her, scared her and possibly traumatized her and all you're doing is saying ok, well, I did this because of this and ya know....although I don't blame you, it's technically your fault when it all comes down to it, upon receiving that letter (which I kinda doubt it'll even get to her) she will become nothing more than a ghost echoing from the distant depths of your memory and only used as a tool of comparison. A quest for absolution just isn't gonna cut it.

Try again, this time, she comes first, you are nothing more than a wrapping up side note. Also, you should have her letter separate to the little message to your friend asking if she could pass it on to the girl you hurt.

.....but thats just my opinion.
 
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DimensionX said:
what he said ^

If I were to read that, all I would see is a person trying to alleviate his own feelings of guilt, it seems to be quite a selfish letter, this isn't about you, why would she care for your justification? the actions that occurred hurt her, scared her and possibly traumatized her and all you're doing is saying ok, well, I did this because of this and ya know....although I don't blame you, it's technically your fault when it all comes down to it, upon receiving that letter (which I kinda doubt it'll even get to her) she will become nothing more than a ghost echoing from the distant depths of your memory and only used as a tool of comparison. A quest for absolution just isn't gonna cut it.

Try again, this time, she comes first, you are nothing more than a wrapping up side note. Also, you should have her letter separate to the little message to your friend asking if she could pass it on to the girl you hurt.

.....but thats just my opinion.
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That's so funny...the quote from Lincoln's first inaugural address you have as your signature used to be at the ending of this letter. I took it out to reduce the length. Truly beautiful words.

You both are right that this is a selfish letter. And I am a selfish person. I do good deeds and help others whenever I can, but I do it because it makes me feel good, not out of a selfless and disinterested sense of duty.

In this case, I am writing this letter because I want two things: peace, and friendship. I recognize that the latter is much more elusive than the former, so I would be more than happy to settle for peace. Does it really make any sense for me to try and hide my intentions, however selfish they may be?

And how can I make it more about her?
 
Alternative view of forgiveness. Forgiveness isn't for the other's sake nor does it transfer between others. It always comes from the self for one self.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN_G3nU778s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN_G3nU778s[/ame]
 
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Loki said:
I'm not looking for forgiveness, I already gave that to myself a long time ago. I'm looking to get a friend back.
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It kinda sounds like you're going through this because you have a bit of a crush on her giving you the extra drive....I dunno though.

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Possible jist from next quote from Loki said:
It's been a/two weeks and I haven't got a reply yet
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Sorry to hear that,

Though, yes, it was worth a shot, I guess it was just too much for her to go through which is a shame, you should respect her choice and take some form of closure, not only that but you've grown from this, hopefully now you can both move forward and remember each other for the good times, you've shared. : )

I know that you may be feeling quite righteously angry but it really is best to move on and in doing so that will truly show that you can and that you have changed and that your strong enough to move on.

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Possible jist from next quote from Loki said:
She/herfriend sent me a no-go reply
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That sucks, I'm sure that your upset and it is difficult once you get knocked down from something like that but just re-read what you've written, you have become a stronger, more confident person, you see yourself again as a bright, creative risk taker that will take on impossible tasks......I truly hope that you can keep that in mind, yes you are hurt and you've been knocked back, but look at how much you've changed now.....I think you can move forward with your life now that you have your response and beat every new challenge that comes up on your way to not only your own happiness but your acceptance of yourself.

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Possible jist from next quote from Loki said:
She replied/got_in_touch_with_me and wants to meet be again to patch things up :D Whoooo!! :D:D:D
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Wow, ok, admittedly I'm a little surprised and didn't really see that coming, I'm glad that she's given you this second chance, DON'T SCREW IT UP (and I mean that in a very caring way) just remember you two are going to be patching things up and HER speed, NOT yours (I can't stress this enough), you will get carried away because you're happy about this second chance, DON'T, seriously, I wish you luck and I'm glad for you that the letter paid off : )

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I do hope it works out for the both of you regardless of what happens, good luck to you : )
 
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DimensionX--

I never said any of those supposed quotes you just attributed to me. Please don't do that ever again.

I am not angry at anyone, and I am not doing this for a crush.

Not getting a reply immediately is a good sign. At worst it shows that they haven't gotten around to dealing with it yet, which is more than understandable since it's the end of the summer. At best it means that they're taking some time to think it over, which is ideal.
 
Loki said:
I'm not looking for forgiveness, I already gave that to myself a long time ago. I'm looking to get a friend back.
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Yes, but you see, he/she must go through this as you have. The insight here is that the more you try to repair the relationship, the further you will push the relationship in the wrong direction. If you friend hasn't done this forgiveness as in the vid, the more you will remind him/her of the pain of the past.

The best you can do is to apologize and expect nothing more. If you expect to get that relationship back is a sort of delusion because you cannot control their will and freedom to hate you forever.

Change your premise from "winning back the person" to "state apology and move on". Nothing more or less. The ball is in their court.

EDIT:
9 pages is way too long. Perhaps 9 sentences at best.
 
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Loki said:
DimensionX--

I never said any of those supposed quotes you just attributed to me. Please don't do that ever again.

I am not angry at anyone, and I am not doing this for a crush.

Not getting a reply immediately is a good sign. At worst it shows that they haven't gotten around to dealing with it yet, which is more than understandable since it's the end of the summer. At best it means that they're taking some time to think it over, which is ideal.
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your right, sorry, I was in a rush for dinner and didn't think the post through very well.

I assumed people would think that I meant it as a possible jist of an outcome from the reply and not something that you actually said.

I edited the quote things to make it clear, hope thats ok, again sorry. : )
 
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I messed up with an INFJ before, though not like this..

What I learned was that I had to be honest with her, and truly sorry.

That I had to be grateful for her friendship, and let her know that it meant alot to me to have her around.

Its just about really being honest, even at the risk of putting yourself out there. And not cause she will crush you, but rather cause there is a chance your actions just wont make a difference anymore.

second most important thing, is to give them time. You can't push your way into their lives, specially if you hurt them or did something to make them not trust you.

And on the chance they talk to you again, never ever get even slightly close to being the kind of person who hurt them ever again. They may forgive as they are capable of being amazing human beings, but they don't forget.

And it seems a bit late to say, but you have to work on yourself as a person. If you really care about this her it would be smarter to do that so as to not put her through an emotionally and mentally abusive situation again.

I know maybe that sounds a bit harsh and I don't mean any disrespect, but I think its important you realize you harmed your friend greatly. You might say that you realize it and jump up to defend yourself, but I read your letter. I noticed you aren't expressing remorse so much as you are expressing that you want to be friends. You were the one who messed up so you don't have the right to really ask for anything from her ever if you aren't technically asking.

If you were truely deeply sorry, you wouldn't be thinking about what you want, but of what would make this situation not so bad for her. I guess I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt that I am.

Anyway I hope I am wrong, and that you at some point stopped thinking about trying to get what you want and thought about what she might want.. you know gave up a little of your happiness and peace of mind so that she can have some.

But if you are gonna go and try to apologize, I'd try a simple "I wish she knew how sorry I am, she was a great friend and I really messed up. she didnt deserve that, specially not from me." or something short and honest. Dont excuse what you did, own up to it.

And don't go in with the reason of trying to pull her back into a freindship.. INFJ's are very intuitive folk and she will likely catch on.. if she sees another reason aside from really trying to apologize, she will think the apology isn't honest, but then again who wouldn't?

Maybe you feel like the worst person in the world for what you did, maybe you have in your mind excused yourself since you were likely going through a very tough time. Doesn't matter what your intentions are, its about doing the right thing dude. Its not right to try in finagle a relationship from a person who you hurt, and disguise it as an apology. It is okay to apologize deeply and admit fault, with out excusing it... be real.

If a friendship comes of it, great. If not, you have to be a good human being and let it be. Those are just my two cents (or more) though..

p.s. I know "let it be" can be a tough bit of advice to follow but this is where you have to fight your own nature for the sake of others. If none of this makes sense to you feel free to ignore it, but if even a shred of it makes sense, maybe it would be a good idea to try out the whole package on for size. Again, don't mean to insult you or give you a tough time, just sharing what I think... Luck dude.
 
Fallen_Adalia said:
I messed up with an INFJ before, though not like this..

What I learned was that I had to be honest with her, and truly sorry.

That I had to be grateful for her friendship, and let her know that it meant alot to me to have her around.

Its just about really being honest, even at the risk of putting yourself out there. And not cause she will crush you, but rather cause there is a chance your actions just wont make a difference anymore.

second most important thing, is to give them time. You can't push your way into their lives, specially if you hurt them or did something to make them not trust you.

And on the chance they talk to you again, never ever get even slightly close to being the kind of person who hurt them ever again. They may forgive as they are capable of being amazing human beings, but they don't forget.

And it seems a bit late to say, but you have to work on yourself as a person. If you really care about this her it would be smarter to do that so as to not put her through an emotionally and mentally abusive situation again.

I know maybe that sounds a bit harsh and I don't mean any disrespect, but I think its important you realize you harmed your friend greatly. You might say that you realize it and jump up to defend yourself, but I read your letter. I noticed you aren't expressing remorse so much as you are expressing that you want to be friends. You were the one who messed up so you don't have the right to really ask for anything from her ever if you aren't technically asking.

If you were truely deeply sorry, you wouldn't be thinking about what you want, but of what would make this situation not so bad for her. I guess I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt that I am.

Anyway I hope I am wrong, and that you at some point stopped thinking about trying to get what you want and thought about what she might want.. you know gave up a little of your happiness and peace of mind so that she can have some.

But if you are gonna go and try to apologize, I'd try a simple "I wish she knew how sorry I am, she was a great friend and I really messed up. she didnt deserve that, specially not from me." or something short and honest. Dont excuse what you did, own up to it.

And don't go in with the reason of trying to pull her back into a freindship.. INFJ's are very intuitive folk and she will likely catch on.. if she sees another reason aside from really trying to apologize, she will think the apology isn't honest, but then again who wouldn't?

Maybe you feel like the worst person in the world for what you did, maybe you have in your mind excused yourself since you were likely going through a very tough time. Doesn't matter what your intentions are, its about doing the right thing dude. Its not right to try in finagle a relationship from a person who you hurt, and disguise it as an apology. It is okay to apologize deeply and admit fault, with out excusing it... be real.

If a friendship comes of it, great. If not, you have to be a good human being and let it be. Those are just my two cents (or more) though..

p.s. I know "let it be" can be a tough bit of advice to follow but this is where you have to fight your own nature for the sake of others. If none of this makes sense to you feel free to ignore it, but if even a shred of it makes sense, maybe it would be a good idea to try out the whole package on for size. Again, don't mean to insult you or give you a tough time, just sharing what I think... Luck dude.
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Thanks for this. I definitely see your point about the letter not sounding so remorseful. The reason for that is that I went through a phase of being overly-remorseful. She knows how sorry I am.

I'm glad you say that being totally honest is the best way to go about it, because that's why I did. I could have made a big deal about how sorry I am like I have in the past. But when it comes right down to it, she already told a mutual friend to tell me that she forgives me a long time ago, and I've forgiven myself, so forgiveness isn't what I'm looking for. I'm looking for friendship, plain and simple.
 
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