How can I gain an INFJ's forgiveness after fucking up in a major way?

Anyone know of an update to this saga?

I totally understand why he did it.

"I broke it. Shit. I can and must fix it."

It's not logical at all. It's pure passion.
 
I can only answer for myself. If someone asks forgiveness and I see honesty in the person's eyes, the person is forgiven.. But I don't hold grudges and could forgive a lot of things many people wouldn't. I realized that if you can't forgive than who will forgive you?..
 
AhSver said:
I can only answer for myself. If someone asks forgiveness and I see honesty in the person's eyes, the person is forgiven.. But I don't hold grudges and could forgive a lot of things many people wouldn't. I realized that if you can't forgive than who will forgive you?..
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What's honesty? If by honesty in apology you mean we really wish we didn't do x and want to fix it, then yes, absolutely.

BUT - and there's a but, especially in Loki's case - I think there's always an element of selfishness to it. Something like "I know how to fix it, I know what should be and so I'm gonna do what I think must be done to get to that end. Damn the torpedoes. Full speed ahead!" (And asks others for their opinions, but mostly for self-validation)

The tragedy is that we ENTPs are good at being logical, but not good at seeing how the other person might feel subjectively inside, as we tend to imprint logic onto our perceptions of others.
 
I think that's a difficult part.. I could always read emotions on people's faces and I could tell when someone is being honestly sorry about something or just saying that to make things smoother.
In cases when emotions are not easily read than the apology must be explained logically for the logical mind to comprehend. Too much emotionality might overwhelm and scare such people away.
In terms of the selfish element I think it's ALWAYS present. Sometimes it can be out of control and really overshadow the other person's desires but at the end of the day in any relationship people are being there for selfish reasons. Even those who love unconditionally and whose sole purpose of existence is caring - it is their pleasure and fulfillment, the other gives them an ability to exercise such unconditional love. Relationship is when both people are selfish but at the same time benefiting each other.

If the relationship is important enough for the person the apology will be accepted and there's no need to try hard to formulate it or exercise it. Ultimately it's up to the other person to decide whether it's worth pursuing or not. People can do very shitty things to us and come up with some half-ass excuses but if we love we forgive, if we don't no matter how great the apology sounds we might not choose it because there's no feelings left. I am not talking only about a romantic relationship but also about friendship or any kind of social interaction over a period of time. Love could be substituted by the word "liking" but after all the magnetism of others that keep us looking for them whichever word we choose still refers to the same cognitive functions.
 
SpilledMilk said:
Anyone know of an update to this saga?

I totally understand why he did it.

"I broke it. Shit. I can and must fix it."

It's not logical at all. It's pure passion.
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Thank you for understanding. The latest update is a bit of an anticlimax I'm afraid...I sent her the 2 page version of my letter at the beginning of last school year, and she never replied. I did have an amusing semester with her though...I fell in love with this girl who, I found out later on, happened to be suite mates with the girl who I sent the letter to! So all through the semester I would be hanging out in my girlfriend's room and the other girl would literally be next door. It was obviously a less than ideal situation, but you have no idea how funny it was to us too...mainly just because of the way she handled it. She stopped talking to my girlfriend and all her friends, even though they were all friends before. It's sad really, but in a situation like that, what can you do but laugh?
 
Loki I'm going to weigh in with good news and bad news.

First the bad news.
As an INFJ, if someone did me wrong, anything that other person actively did which involved me directly or peripherally would effectively serve to push me away further. This rule applies in fact and/or in appearance, since the Judging aspect would make the two indistinguishable. That is the way I, as an INFJ, work.

The good news.
On the other hand, I would be more curious about making contact with the other person if I found out about that person in unexpectedly, pleasant ways. These ways would specifically have to show: 1) the other person has moved on with their life and is doing other things that make them happy, 2) in no way have I found out about the other person through conscious actions on their part--it would have to be my discovery and in my own good time, and 3) That other person is genuinely happy and is now approachable because a) the other person appears more stable, clear-headed and willing/able to deal with any issues that come about, b) the other person has unconsciously proven that I am not needed, and c) as a happier person, the other person is more welcoming and attractive to be around.

My conclusion is that to make an INFJ like myself happy is to be happy yourself. It could be that by the time this happens, you have forgotten about the INFJ and may not want the INFJ back in your life at all! Wrap your mind around that.

Cheers,
JCPA
 
as someone who recently went through this whole scenario let me weigh in. . .

I was contacted by an ex of some 35 years ago. . she had kicked me out of our home to move in some else. . we talked at legnth via the internet. . and I felt a kinship with her. . a love that I had lost so long ago. . so we met. . The first thing that I needed to know was why. . .why had she done this. . her answers were ok I suppose. . .
but by the time I got home I realized that the pain of so long ago was just that...pain that I could not get passed. .no matter how much she changed or told me she was a different person the pain of the past was there. . it's not about forgiveness. . it'a that she did that to me and damaged me. . beyond repair in my heart. .
so I guess the issue here is this. . did permanet damage occur in her heart. . if so. . I'd say forget it. . it's done and cant be fixed. . .
sorry I cant be more encouraging. . .
 
It depends. I am can be pretty bitter at times. I, however, am also very forgiving. Confusing? Yuuuuup.
I think I am only bitter with certain friends, especially if I KNOW they could have controlled their actions. I hate the "I couldn't help it" excuse. No such thing. Thats another thing with me: NO excuses. I will resent you for it.
If you grovel a lot, awesome.
:P

-Anna
 
Seraphim said:
In a situation like that, how can you laugh? I really feel sorry for this girl. I hope she has other friends.
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THIS!

It's like '' I traumatitized this poor girl for the fatal flaw of showing me kindness. When that wasn't enough i tried to weasal my way back into her life to assauge my wants with little to no concern or regard with just how fucked up it is to lay a suicide attempt on an empath/feeler. Then I screw my way literally into her social circle and have sex with her former friend at night making her feel confused, alienated, and perhaps a little scared and unsure. But it's all good. I'm over and can laugh about it now!"

You attitude is *not* made of win. If she were my friend, you'd get an earful. And perhaps a mouthful of broken teeth. I feel *so* bad for her. She is prolly not sure if this is all some grand scheme to worm your way back into her life. Because I've had a stalker or two myself, and they think NOTHING of tearing up your friendships to get at you. It's like that movie Beloved. *shaking my damn head* i hope you don't come across this callous in real life. But its all good, because hey, at least you got a laugh out of it and a cool story, right?
 
Miss Adventure said:
THIS!

It's like '' I traumatitized this poor girl for the fatal flaw of showing me kindness. When that wasn't enough i tried to weasal my way back into her life to assauge my wants with little to no concern or regard with just how fucked up it is to lay a suicide attempt on an empath/feeler. Then I screw my way literally into her social circle and have sex with her former friend at night making her feel confused, alienated, and perhaps a little scared and unsure. But it's all good. I'm over and can laugh about it now!"

You attitude is *not* made of win. If she were my friend, you'd get an earful. And perhaps a mouthful of broken teeth. I feel *so* bad for her. She is prolly not sure if this is all some grand scheme to worm your way back into her life. Because I've had a stalker or two myself, and they think NOTHING of tearing up your friendships to get at you. It's like that movie Beloved. *shaking my damn head* i hope you don't come across this callous in real life. But its all good, because hey, at least you got a laugh out of it and a cool story, right?
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Preach it!
 
This INFJ finds honesty to be particularly effective
 
I think he cares deeply, but doesn't want to show it. He laughs because... what else can he do? He feels pain & shame that he has caused her so much pain, to the extent that she will not even acknowledge him as a person. The cruelest way an INFJ punishes is to go as cold as ice after showing someone what all that warm gooey love & affection feels like. Would you not stop at nothing to get that back if you lost it? Would you not try to repair it if you hurt someone that badly? To lose an INFJ forever has to be the worst feeling imaginable. He's doing the best he can. It's hard to accept, I'm sure.
 
what makes me feel bad is that I have done that "cold as ice" to someone that hurt me deeply. . .I tried not to, but it came out like I was on auto pilot or something. . I wanted to let them back in, but in the end the wound was there and I couldnt stand the thought of it . . .
 
purplecrayons said:
I think he cares deeply, but doesn't want to show it. He laughs because... what else can he do? He feels pain & shame that he has caused her so much pain, to the extent that she will not even acknowledge him as a person. The cruelest way an INFJ punishes is to go as cold as ice after showing someone what all that warm gooey love & affection feels like. Would you not stop at nothing to get that back if you lost it? Would you not try to repair it if you hurt someone that badly? To lose an INFJ forever has to be the worst feeling imaginable. He's doing the best he can. It's hard to accept, I'm sure.
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Would i try and get that back if I lost it? no, not if I was the one in the wrong. I have been on the other side. I hurt someone who cared about me. Maybe. Anyway, I apologized and tried to extend an olive branch. i basically got a 'fuck off and die' response. You know what I did. I apologized, told him i would respect his wishes and thanked him for the time we shared. And said i'd be more careful in my future interactions. You know why? Because its not all about me. There are consequences for your actions and being a healthy adult means accepting other people's wishes. I'm not entitled to forgiveness because *I* think I deserve it. it is a privilege and not a right. If i am a drunk driver and i hit someone and kill them, crying will not bring them back to life no matter how much I mean ''I'm sorry'.Sometimes when you fuck up, the mature thing to do is express remorse and deal with the fallout without drowning in your own self pity.

Sorry I'm just over the whole doormat philosophy of forgiving every creep who fancies you. It's not cruelty to have personal boundaries, it's good sense. Would i like to be like that in theory? Sure, its not fun disappointing someone's desires. But sometimes it's the best thing for everyone. Your mileage may vary, but that's just my life experience.
 
Yes, I as an INFJ have & would also retreat & respect someone's space, blame myself & feel great shame. INTJs will also respect space & boundries when asked, but we are the minorities. I guess I'm asking you to put yourself in the shoes of another type. And what he said about at least knowing that he did everything in his power to restore the friendship. That resonates with me. The INFJ can choose to be a lifelong victim, but I hope she won't. I think we, as INFJs need to detach our emotions and look at this situation objectively. He's not the enemy here. He made a mistake. He doesn't understand why she won't allow him to fix it. I'm just saying... I would not want to be on the other end of an INFJ freeze out, and I feel badly doing it to people. I wish I didn't need to. I don't feel it is right or fair.
 
Sometimes, it's more important to forgive yourself for hurting someone and move forward, because you can't control the other person's healing process.
I absolutely agree with everything @Miss Adventure has said. This person may care deeply that they hurt someone, but they need to have boundaries and respect the privacy of the one hurt. This person should forgive himself, learn a lesson, and improve his interactions and relationships with others in the future, as miss adventure suggested.

Sorry I'm just over the whole doormat philosophy of forgiving every creep who fancies you. It's not cruelty to have personal boundaries, it's good sense. Would i like to be like that in theory? Sure, its not fun disappointing someone's desires. But sometimes it's the best thing for everyone. Your mileage may vary, but that's just my life experience.
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::Beams proudly.::
 
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I always root for the underdog, and play devil's advocate, to be sure. Also, I think being a Christian is hanging me up on the whole INFJ door slam thing, because I would NOT want God to do that to me, and also, if I pride myself on living by the golden rule, and wish others would do the same... I can't make it fit in with that. I can see your point of boundries being healthier for both parties, as a way to disspell codependency, though. I guess everyone has their limits... if we COULD do better we WOULD.
 
Well IMO if you really screwed this person over emotionally my guess is that they're on Infj Doorslam mode which means they don't want to have anything to do with you at all, because of what you did. Infj's forgive ( at times) but never forget. If I were you and I really wanted, no, needed, this person back I would sincerely apologize and let them know exactly what you're apologizing for and how much they mean to you. It sucks being ignored or emotionally stonewalled, and no type knows these feelings better than infjs. Good luck, I hope it works!
 
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