How do you feel about cat calling?

Change my "interpretation" of the issue? I don't have to change shit. Fuck off with that bullshit. I have every right to get angry, upset, and feel violated if I have been taken advantage of. Don't fucking tell me how I should act or feel. My god, opinions like this are what is wrong with society.
I totally agree that it'd be a wrong solution, ethically. Doesn't mean it isn't a possible solution *shrug*
I never meant to prescribe your behaviour or feelings. Maybe I should've worded it like a sincere advice instead of a totalitarian command.
Meh, I don't think any opinions are bad for society. But then again I may be too tolerant.

I must admit that DonTaushMe and your reports have very much changed my view on this. I didn't even know cat calling was such a problem. Thanks both for raising my awareness.
 
And I thought this was going to be a thread about pets...

There's still time.



rescuer-cat-phone.jpg




To get away from the red pill "women are manipulating me with the promise of sex" bullshit, why are you ladies not battering these guys comatose when they literally stalk you on the street? I know self-defense laws are pretty lopsided in NYC, but I'm pretty sure you could get away with at least breaking some ribs or a kneecap using the excuse "he made a grab for me."

Closet ISTP!!

0D1sBOO.jpg
 
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To get away from the red pill "women are manipulating me with the promise of sex" bullshit, why are you ladies not battering these guys comatose when they literally stalk you on the street? I know self-defense laws are pretty lopsided in NYC, but I'm pretty sure you could get away with at least breaking some ribs or a kneecap using the excuse "he made a grab for me."

Some of us aren't sure about starting something we might not be able to finish. You don't want to piss off the aggressor and make them really hurt you. So unless you're convinced that they're a real threat it's best to just remain confident and in control and not be intimidated by them.

If they make a grab you might be able to get away just brushing them off and giving them a stern look but if you hit them and they don't go down you could come away with your face bashed in when it otherwise wouldn't have been.
 
Some of us aren't sure about starting something we might not be able to finish. You don't want to piss off the aggressor and make them really hurt you. So unless you're convinced that they're a real threat it's best to just remain confident and in control and not be intimidated by them.

If they make a grab you might be able to get away just brushing them off and giving them a stern look but if you hit them and they don't go down you could come away with your face bashed in when it otherwise wouldn't have been.

Fair enough. An untrained small person isn't exactly guaranteed to win a fight against an untrained large person. But a couple weeks in a BJJ gym will teach you to do hilarious things with the bodyweight of another human being, especially one who's bigger and less capable than you.

Not saying one should need to, by the way. Obviously the better long-term solution is to train animalistic idiots out of being animalistic, and I know not everyone is willing or able to deal with violence.

Closet ISTP!!

It's me; I'm the guy who thinks of an immediate physical solution to an immediate physical problem.
 
Fair enough. An untrained small person isn't exactly guaranteed to win a fight against an untrained large person. But a couple weeks in a BJJ gym will teach you to do hilarious things with the bodyweight of another human being, especially one who's bigger and less capable than you.

Not saying one should need to, by the way. Obviously the better long-term solution is to train animalistic idiots out of being animalistic, and I know not everyone is willing or able to deal with violence.

Well sure. I'm not a fighter but I'm better at grappling than the average person probably and could hold my own in a fight against someone bigger. I could put the hurt on somebody if I wanted to. But on the other hand if I make a mistake, I'm done.
 
To get away from the red pill "women are manipulating me with the promise of sex" bullshit, why are you ladies not battering these guys comatose when they literally stalk you on the street? I know self-defense laws are pretty lopsided in NYC, but I'm pretty sure you could get away with at least breaking some ribs or a kneecap using the excuse "he made a grab for me."

So violence is the answer huh?

You're encouraging women to attack guys that pester them?

And what if a guy is just asking for the time but a woman decides to attack because he has approached her?

Wow that's the dumbest suggestion i've ever heard
 
What men are really saying when they're cat calling:

[video=youtube;lUJ24mblCLY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUJ24mblCLY&src_vid=8-xNvRu2bxs&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_1930924885[/video]

[MENTION=3799]bionic[/MENTION] )))

The funniest thing about that is the guys doing that skit probably get all the girls.

Edit:
And another irony is that I've known a couple guys to do this who are married with kids. Explain that.
 
So violence is the answer huh?

You're encouraging women to attack guys that pester them?

And what if a guy is just asking for the time but a woman decides to attack because he has approached her?

Wow that's the dumbest suggestion i've ever heard

I'm sorry that you feel so oppressed by the matriarchy that you have to imagine I said something different than I did in order to incite argument.
 
I'm sorry that you feel so oppressed by the matriarchy that you have to imagine I said something different than I did in order to incite argument.

I didn't suggest something different from what you said; you suggested ladies batter guys that stalk them

I'm saying that is a dumb idea
 
Aye, I dont like that kind of thing.
 
And what if a guy is just asking for the time but a woman decides to attack because he has approached her?d

I didn't suggest something different from what you said; you suggested ladies batter guys that stalk them

I'm saying that is a dumb idea

You're being obtuse for the sake of argument. Anybody but you would make the distinction on their own.
 
I'm sorry that you feel so oppressed by the matriarchy that you have to imagine I said something different than I did in order to incite argument.

You got to remember that Muir didnt hate feminism so much until the news broke that it was invented by Jews.

To be honest I think that its awful that invoking self-defence and using force to get people to leave you alone is the point its gotten to, ironically its only likely to encourage the same individuals doing the cat calling because it is a response, consider gamergate or the behaviour of trolls online. Even all the neck beard stuff.

I cant believe some of the mutant messages which have been a byproduct of the internet and all the jerks getting together and reinforcing one anothers delusions and behaviour. I dont really see this as a matter of politics with a big P or social struggles, I see it as incredibly bad manners, empathy fails and, most of all, a major failure in manliness or male norms.
 
8 Reasons A Catcall Is Not A Compliment

"No, actually, that wolf whistle isn’t “just the teeniest bit flattering.”

posted on Jan. 24, 2014, at 3:10 p.m.
Arianna Rebolini
BuzzFeed Staff


1. It’s alienating.

Jaine@Jainey_ Follow
@everydaysexism I try not to let catcalling bother me,but today its left me crying in public. These men don't realise the impact they have.


7:37 AM - 29 Aug 13
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When a smile or nod to a stranger is again and again interpreted as an invitation for a crude remark about the tightness of your jeans, it begins to seem that even this most basic gesture of humanity isn’t extended to you
.


2. It’s not actually about the person being catcalled.

Sanjana Rob@SanjanaRob Follow
Ok so some guys whistled at me and because I didn't thank them...I get called a wh*re, B**ch and sl*t! Nice. -_-

1:01 PM - 02 Oct 12
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See: any time a person is insulted within 30 seconds of being called beautiful, just because that person didn’t respond to the initial “compliment” in a way that satisfied the catcaller.


3. It’s about control.

Catcalls of NYC@CatcallsNYC Follow
"Hold your head up. Senorita, hold your head up.You're pretty, don't look down." #overheard #Bushwick #stoptellingwomentosmile @fazlalizadeh

2:33 PM - 19 Apr 13
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Catcalls are directives – Turn around! Come talk to me! Let me see that smile!– which assume at their most basic level an ownership of the woman being catcalled. These aren’t innocuous or playful requests; they are symptoms of entitlement, and messages that women don’t deserve control over their own bodies.


4. It’s embarrassing.

The Prototype@MelBaby Follow
A man just said some disgusting things to me. I felt so embarrassed, & can't even bring myself to tweet them. Street harassment must end.

10:04 AM - 20 Feb 12
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Evette Dionne@EvetteDionne Follow
I was embarrassed when I shouldn't have been. I'm entitled to these hips & this behind. I'm not property.

5:13 PM - 09 Apr 13
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In a sample study of 223 reported incidents of street harassment, analyzed by HollaBack! and Worker Institute at Cornell University, 19% occurred with bystanders present. But while witnesses can aggravate a feeling of shame – nothing quite ruins a night like being whistled at while walking with your partner – they aren’t necessary factors. The imposition of explicit comments can make the person receiving them feel shame for simply existing.


5. It’s dehumanizing.

Erika W. Smith@erikawynn Follow
So my ass just got catcalled. Not me, just my ass. He spoke directly to my ass. #wtf

4:31 PM - 06 Oct 12
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It is inevitable that men and women will find other men and women attractive, and often in the absence of any real interaction. What shifts a catcall from innocent and fleeting attraction to objectification in its purest form is the decision to act on it. A catcall reveals a disregard for the woman’s humanity, the possibility of her discomfort or irritation or fear, and signals that a woman is nothing more than her body or the ways in which she chooses to dress it.


6. It’s invasive.


Catcalls of NYC@CatcallsNYC Follow
"Can I get some of that?" I was hugging my roommate on the sidewalk. #catcall #bushwick

7:46 PM - 08 May 13
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By catcalling, harassers insert themselves into the personal space of the harassed: during her commute, her daily jog, her walk to brunch. This puts unwilling women on the defensive on a daily basis, where ignoring the comments isn’t seen as an absence of a reaction but instead a transgression, or justification for more verbal assaults.


7. It’s scary.

Patricia Valoy@Besito86 Follow
You never know when a catcall can lead to a verbal assault that can in turn lead to physical and/or sexual attack.

9:39 AM - 27 Sep 12
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Kerri Brennan@kerribrennaan Follow
Waaa some guys in a white van just wolfed whistled at me and now they are turning round and coming back! I'm literally running! :'(

8:40 AM - 10 Oct 12
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In September 2013, a 21-year-old man pulled his car up to a 14-year-old girl in Florida and offered her $200 to have sex with him. When she refused, she was grabbed, choked, tossed aside, and then run over multiple times. Luckily, she survived.
This is not an isolated incident. Throughout the country women have been stabbed, shot, and sexually assaulted for ignoring catcalls with alarming regularity, as Soraya Chemaly at Huffington Post pointed out, and this fact colors every incident of street harassment.


8. It’s disempowering.


Melissa A. Fabello@fyeahmfabello Follow
When the media makes light of street harassment, it reinforces the idea that it's acceptable, that we're "overreacting." #EndSHWeek


3:07 PM - 10 Apr 13
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Tam@Omgitstamz Follow
RT @PermBoxZ: Street harassment is real. Women aren't overreacting or being dramatic. It is happening to us. Every. Single. Day.

3:13 PM - 13 Apr 13
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There’s still a good chunk of people who, unfortunately and surprisingly, don’t see the distinction between a compliment and harassment. A catcall is disempowering enough in itself – for making the person targeted feel violated, uncomfortable, or threatened – but it is doubly so when complaints about the catcall are silenced.
According to research by HollaBack, a majority of women report feeling angry, annoyed, disgusted, nervous, and scared when catcalled. If these comments are intended as compliments, they’re missing the mark.


http://www.buzzfeed.com/ariannarebolini/reasons-a-catcall-is-not-a-compliment
 
1. It’s alienating.

Jaine@Jainey_ Follow
@everydaysexism I try not to let catcalling bother me,but today its left me crying in public. These men don't realise the impact they have.


7:37 AM - 29 Aug 13
Reply Retweet Favorite
When a smile or nod to a stranger is again and again interpreted as an invitation for a crude remark about the tightness of your jeans, it begins to seem that even this most basic gesture of humanity isn’t extended to you
.


http://www.buzzfeed.com/ariannarebolini/reasons-a-catcall-is-not-a-compliment

This reminds me about the whole "women are supposed to smile when they receive attention" philosophy. There's this expectation in our culture that women are supposed to "smile" and look attractive as an unwritten social rule. They are also expected to be "nicer" than men and should dress to get attention in addition to showing appreciation for that attention. If she's not smiling or showing off her "beauty" or femininity then she's not a true woman. It's supposedly in her nature. It stems from the belief that a woman's body is for show or display. If she doesn't call attention to it, then she's not truly woman or feminine. It also reflects this idea that if a woman doesn't dress to be noticed, then she has low or lower self esteem, because supposedly if she loves or cares about herself and her own body then she should show it off and put it on display. Women dress the way they do for different reasons of course, but society still expects women to dress for the gaze. The assumption is, a woman's body is meant to be displayed for attention. She can't simply be dressing just for herself. It must be noticed. The belief is that a woman is supposed to want and desire a attention, especially male attention, because it will make her feel more womanly. She is expected to want and like the attention, and feel good that she is being gawked at. It somehow affirms her value as woman. I think it's these underlying taken for granted assumptions about women's sense of selves as bodies which is being used to justify the perception of women as being too unnecessarily offended about being catcalled.
 
I think a very simple way of assessing whether or not something such as cat calling should be minimised and dismissed or not would be to take the individual responsible for it and see whether they would be content to be subjected to it, now obviously if they are objectifying women they wouldnt be that vexed by being objectified by women themselves, surprised or unsettled maybe but not vexed by it but change up the game a bit, have them subjected to the cat calling by a bunch of homosexual men maybe and it would be a different story.

I remember a similar discussion playing out involving a friend of mine, she was rooming with three men at a house when at university and she said that one of them had asked, for the sake of argument as it turned out, whether or not she could protest, given that the majority in the house were male, if they put up bikini girl posters or an FHM calender. As a concession they said that if she wanted to put up a poster of a speedo wearing himbo it would be fine. Although the same guy acknowledged that if he were the lone heterosexual in a house full of three homosexual guys their putting up a poster would make him feel uncomfortable.

I think its rude, stupid behaviour to make another person feel uncomfortable.
 
This reminds me about the whole "women are supposed to smile when they receive attention" philosophy. There's this expectation in our culture that women are supposed to "smile" and look attractive as an unwritten social rule. They are also expected to be "nicer" than men and should dress to get attention in addition to showing appreciation for that attention. If she's not smiling or showing off her "beauty" or femininity then she's not a true woman. It's supposedly in her nature. It stems from the belief that a woman's body is for show or display. If she doesn't call attention to it, then she's not truly woman or feminine. It also reflects this idea that if a woman doesn't dress to be noticed, then she has low or lower self esteem, because supposedly if she loves or cares about herself and her own body then she should show it off and put it on display. Women dress the way they do for different reasons of course, but society still expects women to dress for the gaze. The assumption is, a woman's body is meant to be displayed for attention. She can't simply be dressing just for herself. It must be noticed. The belief is that a woman is supposed to want and desire a attention, especially male attention, because it will make her feel more womanly. She is expected to want and like the attention, and feel good that she is being gawked at. It somehow affirms her value as woman. I think it's these underlying taken for granted assumptions about women's sense of selves as bodies which is being used to justify the perception of women as being too unnecessarily offended about being catcalled.

I couldn't agree more.

I dressed for myself more in the past. Now I dress more to try and protect myself. And yet it still happens. I have experienced most of the situations mentioned above and it is uncomfortable. I will avoid going out for lunch or taking a stroll because I do not want to be subjected to this type of treatment.

I once had a guy follow me down the street because I didn't respond to his 'compliment'.
I told him "I'm sorry, but I'm taken." I shouldn't have had to apologize but I was nervous about him and his stalkish reaction. He pointed out that I had no ring on my finger yet. I told him again that I was sorry and had to get back to the office. He then proceeded to call me a "stuck-up bitch, you think you're too good for everyone, don't you?" I was very upset after that incident. I don't understand why I need to be put in a position to deal with something like that every time I go out to get a bite to eat. No woman should have to worry about being harassed when walking down the street.
 
I couldn't agree more.

I dressed for myself more in the past. Now I dress more to try and protect myself. And yet it still happens. I have experienced most of the situations mentioned above and it is uncomfortable. I will avoid going out for lunch or taking a stroll because I do not want to be subjected to this type of treatment.

I once had a guy follow me down the street because I didn't respond to his 'compliment'.
I told him "I'm sorry, but I'm taken." I shouldn't have had to apologize but I was nervous about him and his stalkish reaction. He pointed out that I had no ring on my finger yet. I told him again that I was sorry and had to get back to the office. He then proceeded to call me a "stuck-up bitch, you think you're too good for everyone, don't you?" I was very upset after that incident. I don't understand why I need to be put in a position to deal with something like that every time I go out to get a bite to eat. No woman should have to worry about being harassed when walking down the street.

Don't worry, you probably weren't the only woman he harassed that day.

A lot of it is about expectations, as [MENTION=1669]pics[/MENTION] noted. The same small men who get incensed about being ignored by women get angry when they feel slighted by anybody over anything. If it wasn't you, it would have been his neighbor or his coworker or some other acquaintance. That's my experience as a man, anyway: the only guys who catcall and get indignant about it are mentally inflexible and, to some degree, deprived of character (see BWH's video above).

e: Actually, it comes to mind now that I've had several encounters when out alone where I've had groups of people (either just guys or a few guys with a girl posse) talk a lot of shit towards me as I passed by them and even made a couple attempts to provoke a fight. In that sense, it's about empowering themselves by bringing down others.
 
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I couldn't agree more.

I dressed for myself more in the past. Now I dress more to try and protect myself. And yet it still happens. I have experienced most of the situations mentioned above and it is uncomfortable. I will avoid going out for lunch or taking a stroll because I do not want to be subjected to this type of treatment.

I once had a guy follow me down the street because I didn't respond to his 'compliment'.
I told him "I'm sorry, but I'm taken." I shouldn't have had to apologize but I was nervous about him and his stalkish reaction. He pointed out that I had no ring on my finger yet. I told him again that I was sorry and had to get back to the office. He then proceeded to call me a "stuck-up bitch, you think you're too good for everyone, don't you?" I was very upset after that incident. I don't understand why I need to be put in a position to deal with something like that every time I go out to get a bite to eat. No woman should have to worry about being harassed when walking down the street.

Yeah, as if there's this obligation to accept the compliment, and if you don't, then it reflects some kind of personality problem on the woman's part. So, the hypocrisy in the expectation to accept the call to smile or in the case of the catcalling, accept the compliment is classically ignored. The crude cat caller believes on some level that it's your job to entertain them, especially the ones who persist. They feel they've won if they get you to accept the attention and revel in it, but it doesn't hide the fact that they still see women they cat call as a piece of meat, without the right to say no, and not want the attention. A guy who respects a woman, wouldn't want to make her feel uncomfortable, even if he's a nice guy who just wants to make her feel good and has no intention of embarrassing or making her feel creeped out.
 
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You're being obtuse for the sake of argument. Anybody but you would make the distinction on their own.

I'm not being 'obtuse'

You have advocated the idea of women physically attacking guys they perceive to be stalking them

This is an idea of attacking people that they perceive to be giving unwanted attention

But where are the lines drawn?

As @the stated earlier in the thread sometimes it is not the attention that is unwanted it is the person providing the attention that matters

So if a guy the woman likes approaches it is all good but if a guy they don't like approaches then he is an unwanted pest or potential 'stalker'

Honestly man telling women to lash out violently at men is not responsible or wise

If a person is receiving unwanted attention that constitutes harrassmen then a person should leave and if necessary advise the police; but if a woman assaults a man then she is likely to be done for assault or even worse attacked by the guy

It's a dumb and irresponsible idea
 
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What do you all think about cat-calling and how women behave towards men?

I was reading some interesting personal anecdotes from men who have endured a lot of sexual harrassment by women, particularly in medical or office environments. It seems when their concerns are brought to management and HR it's laughed off and nothing is done about it. I have seen a lot of women cat-call at men, too. Though I see this more from older women doing it to younger men.

I wonder if anyone else sees this as a problem also.

I don't think there is a solution to this type of behaviour. I sometimes get the feeling we are all alienated from each other and have a difficult time empathizing with the other sex.
 
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