[INFJ] INFJ getting friendzoned (specificly by INFP) but also other types.

Ginny said:
All of you have already given great advice, so there's nothing to add here other than to reinforce this.


Trust your instincts. You say you saw something, and that something is often there for a reason. The smallest details you notice can give a wholly different colour to everything else, so watch out for that.

Physique, overt behaviour and popularity don't translate to being a specific kind of person, as the others have already said.

Take your time for now to get over this ordeal before diving into the dating game again, see that you are really ready for it when you do.
When all you do is crave a connection, there is probably an element of self-love that is missing. You can be happy and lead a full life even without a relationship. Once you have that internalised and exert that vibe, you can attract the right kind of person for you, because no sleazy asshole will dare try to go for you when you are unfuckwithable (some do that for sport, but when you really become what you want, it won't matter - also, please excuse that phrasing, it was a bit harsh :grin::sweatsmile:).
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Dont worry you don't sound harst I think :D And yes you are right I should thrust my instinct from now on more. Eyes reveal so damn much. And you are probably right too about focussing first on getting a happy fufilling life. To be honest my mindset is that absolutely nothing besides eternal love matters. And while I know that is also true, I should maybe also focus more on having fun and trying to make something of life.
 
BeautifulSuffering said:
Dont worry you don't sound harst I think :D And yes you are right I should thrust my instinct from now on more. Eyes reveal so damn much. And you are probably right too about focussing first on getting a happy fufilling life. To be honest my mindset is that absolutely nothing besides eternal love matters. And while I know that is also true, I should maybe also focus more on having fun and trying to make something of life.
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Brilliant advice in this thread - all I'd add is if it's practical try just being friends with guys for quite a while before you start dating with any of them. I knew my wife for a year before we dated - I've known her for 50 years and we've been married for 45 lol. We both knew a lot about each other before we became an item.
 
John K said:
Brilliant advice in this thread - all I'd add is if it's practical try just being friends with guys for quite a while before you start dating with any of them. I knew my wife for a year before we dated - I've known her for 50 years and we've been married for 45 lol. We both knew a lot about each other before we became an item.
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That too.

And if someone is trying to take this away from you, trying to guilt or otherwise force you into a relationship by claiming that this is friendzoning, take this as a sign that they are not relationship material.
I have had this happening to me and I didn't listen to myself.
 
I agree with @Ginny and @John K. It is better to become friends first. I knew my husband for a few years before we became a couple, and we got married six years after that.

To play devil's advocate, my brother and his wife married very young, and only about two years after meeting. They're closing in on their 30th anniversary. They lived across an ocean from each other, though, and the only practical and affordable solution was marriage.
 
Asa said:
I agree with @Ginny and @John K. It is better to become friends first. I knew my husband for a few years before we became a couple, and we got married six years after that.

To play devil's advocate, my brother and his wife married very young, and only about two years after meeting. They're closing in on their 30th anniversary. They lived across an ocean from each other, though, and the only practical and affordable solution was marriage.
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We could say that every couple is different. It's not just the one person after all. You have to click, which partly lies in the successful merging of two individuals into one whole. Sometimes it works better than others.

In my case, I'd say I'd have to know someone first for the sake of security and harmony. I cannot jump into something without knowing where it leads.
 
Ginny said:
In my case, I'd say I'd have to know someone first for the sake of security and harmony. I cannot jump into something without knowing where it leads.
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Me, too. INFJs are future-oriented. I need to know the (potential) relationship has a future, and what kind of future that could be, before I get involved.

This can suck, of course, because once I invest my mind is glued on the person and it is very hard to get over break-ups. I feel wounded for ages, and sort of angry that my usual good intuition didn't work.
Judging from my past experienced, I decided romance voids my intuition.
 
Asa said:
Me, too. INFJs are future-oriented. I need to know the (potential) relationship has a future, and what kind of future that could be, before I get involved.

This can suck, of course, because once I invest my mind is glued on the person and it is very hard to get over break-ups. I feel wounded for ages, and sort of angry that my usual good intuition didn't work.
Judging from my past experienced, I decided romance voids my intuition.
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Yeah, it kind of does that with the rose-tinted glasses. But there is a moment, I find, between admiration and investment, wherein it is possible to stop for a moment and glean whether you are currently on the same path. If there is one moment of doubt, then I would abandon it.
 
Asa said:
To play devil's advocate, my brother and his wife married very young, and only about two years after meeting. They're closing in on their 30th anniversary. They lived across an ocean from each other, though, and the only practical and affordable solution was marriage.
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Ginny said:
In my case, I'd say I'd have to know someone first for the sake of security and harmony. I cannot jump into something without knowing where it leads.
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Asa said:
udging from my past experienced, I decided romance voids my intuition.
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I'm with you both on this - I hadn't the vocabulary then that I have now and I'd say that pragma love is the one that I needed and so did my wife. Eros is fickle - delightful but fickle. Pragma lasts down the decades and is also delightful in a slow burn way
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But - I absolutely agree there's no magic formua involved and every couple is different. It's just that the risks aremuch higher with the fast track romances.
 
@John K – Do you think it is possible to have both pragma and eros in one relationship? I've always considered my relationship to have both. Though, I wouldn't even call it pragma as we age. We did go through some stuff where the practical thing to do would have been to split, and I finally decided: I'm facing this head on and if it ends it ends, and if it heals us, it heals us, because I have nothing to lose at this point. Now we have a deep love that I never knew existed. It's like we were fighting a war together and know that person was fighting with us, and risking everything for us. The bond is so deep.
 
Ginny said:
That too.

And if someone is trying to take this away from you, trying to guilt or otherwise force you into a relationship by claiming that this is friendzoning, take this as a sign that they are not relationship material.
I have had this happening to me and I didn't listen to myself.
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Are you saying I tried guilt this guy in a relationship? Maybe you read on another thread about my borderline. But I'm not that kind of borderliner. After he told me the thruth that he did not have feelings for me and wanted to stay just friends, I became angry and hurt first but told him it is okay and let him go immediately after.
 
BeautifulSuffering said:
Are you saying I tried guilt this guy in a relationship? Maybe you read on another thread about my borderline. But I'm not that kind of borderliner. After he told me the thruth that he did not have feelings for me and wanted to stay just friends, I became angry and hurt first but told him it is okay and let him go immediately after.
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None of that, no. I have had no idea that you are/have(?) borderline. I wasn't insinuating anything, just speaking in general terms. Like, further ideating based on the immediately preceding post, you know?
I'm sorry that I wasn't more considerate of the gist/OP of the thread.
 
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Ginny said:
None of that, no. I have no idea that you are/have(?) borderline. I wasn't insinuating anything, just speaking in general terms. Like, further ideating based on the immediately preceding post, you know?
I'm sorry that I wasn't more considerate of the gist/OP of the thread.
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Oh no; I'm sorry then. I thought you were talking about me with that sentance about friendzoning :P
 
Asa said:
@John K – Do you think it is possible to have both pragma and eros in one relationship? I've always considered my relationship to have both. Though, I wouldn't even call it pragma as we age. We did go through some stuff where the practical thing to do would have been to split, and I finally decided: I'm facing this head on and if it ends it ends, and if it heals us, it heals us, because I have nothing to lose at this point. Now we have a deep love that I never knew existed. It's like we were fighting a war together and know that person was fighting with us, and risking everything for us. The bond is so deep.
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Yes - a long term relationship needs lots of both I'd say. I think it takes longer for pragma to mature than eros though and it seems to me that many relationships never get past eros before they fall apart, which Is why I picked it out - it needs eros to die down a bit, perhaps, before it starts to shine properly. That's why I favour long friendships at the start of a relationship for people who get to know others slowly, and who feel very deeply - because pragma forms beautiful well rooted commitments that endure, even when the heat of eros fade a bit. It carries us over the hard times too and lots of us face those over our lifetimes - illness, work problems, social problems, problems with our children, etc.

Certainly as we have got older pragma has become ever more core over the years - but after all, we are both in our late 60s lol - but we needed both when we were younger.

But these words sound awfully dry and analytical in a post like this ..... it isn't like that at all in real life is it?
 
BeautifulSuffering said:
Oh no; I'm sorry then. I thought you were talking about me with that sentance about friendzoning :p
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Also, I wasn't referring to a kind of friendzoning like you experienced either. What was done to you was awful. But deciding to be friends first before starting something is different in my book and should be respected.
 
There are some lovely stories and thoughts here, and I think people are much more qualified than I to comment.

In terms of being friends first, I don't think that could work with some men. If I was interested that way, I would just ask her and either take her out or move on depending on the answer.

Just be aware that some men might judge you negatively for waiting. They might think you're the type to 'wait for something better' or they might think you're disrespectful to them personally. Maybe these men are the immature ones or maybe they're not, I don't know. It's just different.

In terms of the 'types of love' that have been talked about, I like to describe them as 'orientations' - how are you each oriented towards the other in physical space, and that to me captures some of the magic of movement between the different types of love.

So the feeling of being side by side with your partner as you take on the world. Maybe this feeling is pragma.

But from this position you can easily turn to face each other and regard each other with the complete adoration of eros.

There are other orientations in this metaphor, but the key image in all of them is that no matter which way you turn, the hands remain held - that is, the foundational element of all of them is a conscious, freely-made choice; a commitment, as @Asa so beautifully described.
 
John K said:
Brilliant advice in this thread - all I'd add is if it's practical try just being friends with guys for quite a while before you start dating with any of them. I knew my wife for a year before we dated - I've known her for 50 years and we've been married for 45 lol. We both knew a lot about each other before we became an item.
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Ginny said:
That too.

And if someone is trying to take this away from you, trying to guilt or otherwise force you into a relationship by claiming that this is friendzoning, take this as a sign that they are not relationship material.
I have had this happening to me and I didn't listen to myself.
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Asa said:
I agree with @Ginny and @John K. It is better to become friends first. I knew my husband for a few years before we became a couple, and we got married six years after that.

To play devil's advocate, my brother and his wife married very young, and only about two years after meeting. They're closing in on their 30th anniversary. They lived across an ocean from each other, though, and the only practical and affordable solution was marriage.
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Ginny said:
We could say that every couple is different. It's not just the one person after all. You have to click, which partly lies in the successful merging of two individuals into one whole. Sometimes it works better than others.

In my case, I'd say I'd have to know someone first for the sake of security and harmony. I cannot jump into something without knowing where it leads.
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Great advice! I can’t agree enough. I always found that those who decide to become good close friends first tend to have a very solid and loving relationship. I see it with two of my good friends who have been with their partners since secondary school—best friends first, then a couple later. Still going strong.

It’s good to let things unfold naturally and enjoy the presence of their person whilst getting to know them in a deeper level and not rush the process.

Myself, I’ve always been the type that wanted to go things very slow and take the time to get to know the other person before wanting to go the next step—however with my ex-partners, they sort of wanted to become an item quite quickly; which I should’ve known it was too soon but decided to go with it due to some type of silly fear or not wanting to hurt their feelings. Now I know that there was some fault on my part and should’ve went with my gut to go way slower and let things progress organically.

However it really depends on the couple; some go faster than others and end up doing alright, and unfortunately some don’t. It really honestly depends.

I suppose it’s also an INFJ behavior wanting to take the slow approach due to the fact we want to have that one relationship that is really profound and meaningful, thus requires a gradual process. While it is tedious and annoying to some, to us, it is required because INFJ partners are in it for the long-haul and we take relationships quite seriously.

Which I agree strongly with @Asa that break-ups are the worst and we take it very hard—which is another reason why we decide to go the slow route so we don’t put all our eggs in the basket.

Next time, I will follow my gut and take the friend approach and reeeealllyy get to know the person. No rushing. If the other guy doesn’t like that and disagrees, then they are simply not the right person unfortunately.
 
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